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 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:09 pm
Wouldn't lineage be the wrong word though? That implies decent, as in biologically related...
If outsiders can become wiccans by going through the right process and initiation, then they would have no actual lineage....
I think I do remember something about Gardener in the book as well actually, and many of the history she went into it about, beyond mentioning that actual WICCA has not been around for very long, is other relevant things. Other similar pagan beliefs and The Old Religion. Considering it says Phyllis was a modern lawyer with a lot of skepticism about Wicca from the start, she looked a lot of things up, including Egyptian Gods and Goddesses and much older things that relate to it.
Either way, I have no plans to become a Wiccan lol, I just find it fascinating.
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:36 pm
Omg A Name
Wouldn't lineage be the wrong word though? That implies decent, as in biologically related...
If outsiders can become wiccans by going through the right process and initiation, then they would have no actual lineage....
I think I do remember something about Gardener in the book as well actually, and many of the history she went into it about, beyond mentioning that actual WICCA has not been around for very long, is other relevant things. Other similar pagan beliefs and The Old Religion. Considering it says Phyllis was a modern lawyer with a lot of skepticism about Wicca from the start, she looked a lot of things up, including Egyptian Gods and Goddesses and much older things that relate to it.
Either way, I have no plans to become a Wiccan lol, I just find it fascinating.
Lineage through training, not by decedents. Proof that the High Priest and Priestess were trained by a person who was trained by someone, and so on and so forth until you reach being trained by Gardner himself or someone in the original coven he started. Wicca isn't even 60 years old, that won't happen until 2014. Gardner got a lot of his information from a group of Pagans called The New Forest Coven, nothing is know about them (unless they talk about them within the coven that is) or if that particular coven even existed. Age is important thing as well, you must be at least 18 or 21 depending on the state and/or the Coven, because they practice sexual rituals within the coven. Anything from the kissing of the sex organ, skyclad (naked rituals), and other rituals we know nothing about. If your not in a Coven, but still call yourself a Wiccan you're not. You're a solitary witch, or whatever Cunningham calls his practice. Kemetism is the ret-con of Ancient Egyptian religion, just to let you know. I love studying Wicca, but I couldn't ever be Wiccan. Too much to it and the mysteriousness of it, along with the sexual rituals are just a bit too far for me.
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Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:19 pm
Well, I'm Wiccan, But I do not worship any wiccan god such as Diana, Kali, Venus etc. I honor the watchtower gods and believe in changing things with the energy around me =]
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Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:20 pm
Btw I love the title:
"CULTS and religions" haha.
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Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:27 pm
Russkye Princessa Well, I'm Wiccan, But I do not worship any wiccan god such as Diana, Kali, Venus etc. I honor the watchtower gods and believe in changing things with the energy around me =]
....Why the hell would you change Wicca?
If you change it, then you're not following the true religion...
You're a Neo-Pagan...
gonk
How many times must I say that?
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Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:26 pm
biggrin the more you know!!!! SOunds coool to me and im atheist but i do believe in nature biggrin
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:59 am
Alaois moon_the_angel_of_hell Omg A Name moon_the_angel_of_hell Wicca is the religion...we are called Wiccans; and to sum up what we do in a very very very very...small nut shell is witchcraft. Witchcraft (still going simple here) can be good or evil. Wiccans that are evil use dark magic. Wiccans that are good use light magic; most wiccans you find are good. We learn what to go by, by listeing to Gods and Goddesses....doing research and studying the past and present.
I would have to disagree with you here somewhat. I am not a wiccan, or attempting to be, or want to be, but I find it all very fascinating and have looked into it. Those that practice, or attempt, "black magick" cannot be termed wiccans because it contradicts the wiccan rede which was previously stated "An ye harm none, do what ye will."
Which means you can basically do whatever you want, as long as it does not harm anyone physically or emotionally, which INCLUDES manipulation such as love spells that make someone love you.
-Wiccans do have love spell (I think haha), but that isn't what they do. They open you up to love, and those around you, to the idea, they don't change anyone's natural emotions or feelings about you.
Whichcraft perhaps, can be looked at beyond only for the good, but I do not believe you can be a practitioner of dark arts, and still honestly call yourself a wiccan. I mean, they technically only have one rule- and that's the wiccan rede, if your not following it, how can you be a wiccan?
Then there's the threefold law: What good or bad you do returns to you threefold (think karma).
@Alaois: Your quote puts it well- if you deviate too far from what wicca is, it ceases to be wicca, but becomes something else.
I would go on, but considering in reality, I know so little about the actual religion, I just wanted to put in what I was pretty damn sure about ;D
I find research about "the old religion" that I think wicca, or a lot of it, was based off of, which as far as I know, relates to other pagan beliefs, is more wide ranged, or rather, there is more knowledge about it... Though, I'm sure plenty of things are false there as well.
I was explain it in simple terms, for someone who didn't even think there was another religion in the world beside theres. Yes we do have love spells, but we cannot take away free will. Wiccan can not do black magic because then whe are no longer wiccans....we are witches. That isn't Simple terms, my quotes put it in Simple terms, it wasn't even right. Now I ask,what is your age and your Lineage Moon... I put it in black and white, I know that's not Simple terms for someone that wants ot learn it, but it is for a girl that's spits out christianty when she talks and she knows that she does. I was trying to keep it simple for someone that didn't know there was another religion in the world besides hers. I x.x wow I make wicca black and white for one person and i get my case jumped on. Though I don't care. I've been a wiccan for years, and I worship the God, Taliesin...I'm a happy wiccan and I know alot, and I'm still learning. Don't think that I dont' know what I'm talking about because of one post...like I said....something BLACK AND WHITE...for a christian. ^^ Anyway....heheh
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:00 am
Alaois Russkye Princessa Well, I'm Wiccan, But I do not worship any wiccan god such as Diana, Kali, Venus etc. I honor the watchtower gods and believe in changing things with the energy around me =]
....Why the hell would you change Wicca?
If you change it, then you're not following the true religion...
You're a Neo-Pagan...
gonk
How many times must I say that?
She said she likes changing the energy around her....not changing the religion. Btw I don't give out my age, I'm not a child, i've been doing wicca for years now and I have my teacher...
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:34 am
moon_the_angel_of_hell Alaois moon_the_angel_of_hell Omg A Name moon_the_angel_of_hell Wicca is the religion...we are called Wiccans; and to sum up what we do in a very very very very...small nut shell is witchcraft. Witchcraft (still going simple here) can be good or evil. Wiccans that are evil use dark magic. Wiccans that are good use light magic; most wiccans you find are good. We learn what to go by, by listeing to Gods and Goddesses....doing research and studying the past and present.
I would have to disagree with you here somewhat. I am not a wiccan, or attempting to be, or want to be, but I find it all very fascinating and have looked into it. Those that practice, or attempt, "black magick" cannot be termed wiccans because it contradicts the wiccan rede which was previously stated "An ye harm none, do what ye will."
Which means you can basically do whatever you want, as long as it does not harm anyone physically or emotionally, which INCLUDES manipulation such as love spells that make someone love you.
-Wiccans do have love spell (I think haha), but that isn't what they do. They open you up to love, and those around you, to the idea, they don't change anyone's natural emotions or feelings about you.
Whichcraft perhaps, can be looked at beyond only for the good, but I do not believe you can be a practitioner of dark arts, and still honestly call yourself a wiccan. I mean, they technically only have one rule- and that's the wiccan rede, if your not following it, how can you be a wiccan?
Then there's the threefold law: What good or bad you do returns to you threefold (think karma).
@Alaois: Your quote puts it well- if you deviate too far from what wicca is, it ceases to be wicca, but becomes something else.
I would go on, but considering in reality, I know so little about the actual religion, I just wanted to put in what I was pretty damn sure about ;D
I find research about "the old religion" that I think wicca, or a lot of it, was based off of, which as far as I know, relates to other pagan beliefs, is more wide ranged, or rather, there is more knowledge about it... Though, I'm sure plenty of things are false there as well.
I was explain it in simple terms, for someone who didn't even think there was another religion in the world beside theres. Yes we do have love spells, but we cannot take away free will. Wiccan can not do black magic because then whe are no longer wiccans....we are witches. That isn't Simple terms, my quotes put it in Simple terms, it wasn't even right. Now I ask,what is your age and your Lineage Moon... I put it in black and white, I know that's not Simple terms for someone that wants ot learn it, but it is for a girl that's spits out christianty when she talks and she knows that she does. I was trying to keep it simple for someone that didn't know there was another religion in the world besides hers. I x.x wow I make wicca black and white for one person and i get my case jumped on. Though I don't care. I've been a wiccan for years, and I worship the God, Taliesin...I'm a happy wiccan and I know alot, and I'm still learning. Don't think that I dont' know what I'm talking about because of one post...like I said....something BLACK AND WHITE...for a christian. ^^ Anyway....heheh That still isn't black and white. that is a misinterpretation of Wicca. Wicca is:an Orthopraxic, Oathbound, Initiatory, Mystery-based, Experiential, Coven-based, Fertility-focused, Dithesitic Witch-cult whose members are all Clergy within a Lineaged Tradition. Nothing about black or white magic in there...is it? What is your lineage then moon, you can give me that without any breaking of your oathbound to your coven. (and I do not mean give me given names, that would be breaking your oath to your coven) then I can look it up and see if you're telling the truth or not. How long have you been practicing Wicca then? which Tradition do you follow? and if you're Wicca, you should be following the LORD and the LADY not just one specific god. Age is an important part of the question as well, unless you're over 18/21 (depending on your location and/or the coven) you will not be initiated. Another question: Where you cross-gender initiated? Why don't you follow the Lord and Lady? Christians are well aware that there are other religions besides their own, some just don't acknowledge that they exist. And how is changing the energy around her not changing Wicca? your main belief is to follow the Lord and Lady. Lets hear the answers to those questions Moon.
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:18 am
moon_the_angel_of_hell Alaois Russkye Princessa Well, I'm Wiccan, But I do not worship any wiccan god such as Diana, Kali, Venus etc. I honor the watchtower gods and believe in changing things with the energy around me =]
....Why the hell would you change Wicca?
If you change it, then you're not following the true religion...
You're a Neo-Pagan...
gonk
How many times must I say that?
She said she likes changing the energy around her....not changing the religion. Btw I don't give out my age, I'm not a child, i've been doing wicca for years now and I have my teacher... Exactly, Thank you. Why would I want to change Wicca?
Funny you say that being there is about 12 different types of Wicca so..yeah.
And I'm not Neo-Pagan.
I use Raphael and Uriel (East) to guide me during rituals.
Invoking any other gods(ess)/angels/entities besides the ones I have accordingly to my birth etc sounds completely irresponsible and childish.
And it's not like I don't follow the same rules that you do.
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:00 pm
Russkye Princessa moon_the_angel_of_hell Alaois Russkye Princessa Well, I'm Wiccan, But I do not worship any wiccan god such as Diana, Kali, Venus etc. I honor the watchtower gods and believe in changing things with the energy around me =]
....Why the hell would you change Wicca?
If you change it, then you're not following the true religion...
You're a Neo-Pagan...
gonk
How many times must I say that?
She said she likes changing the energy around her....not changing the religion. Btw I don't give out my age, I'm not a child, i've been doing wicca for years now and I have my teacher... Exactly, Thank you. Why would I want to change Wicca?
Funny you say that being there is about 12 different types of Wicca so..yeah.
And I'm not Neo-Pagan.
I use Raphael and Uriel (East) to guide me during rituals.
Invoking any other gods(ess)/angels/entities besides the ones I have accordingly to my birth etc sounds completely irresponsible and childish.
And it's not like I don't follow the same rules that you do. Wicca, British Traditional Wicca, is the only real Wicca out there. Yes, there maybe other sects out there, but they aren't Wicca, just riding on the name. Cunningham's branch of what was once called Wicca doesn't even use that term anymore. They are all Solitary Witches. Unless your lineage can be traced back to Gardner (which isn't that hard to prove), are over the age of 18/21 (as stated previously in my prior post), and you follow Gardnerian or Alexandrian traditions, you're not Wiccan. Simple, easy to be worded statement. How come everyone and their brother believe they're Wiccan but do not understand the core concept of what I've said? So Russkye what is your lineage and age?
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:21 pm
moon_the_angel_of_hell I am still a young wiccan, but I am being trained...I am being taught, we all have to learn. I know what I said was "wrong" but I didn't mean it like it was said....taken out of my mind's maze of thinking... I just want this event to pass over.
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:26 pm
moon_the_angel_of_hell Nothing about black or white magic in there...is it? I wasn't talking about magic being black and white...you fail to understanhd. What is your lineage then moon, you can give me that without any breaking of your oathbound to your coven. (and I do not mean give me given names, that would be breaking your oath to your coven) I don't belong to a coven because of my living conditons. How long have you been practicing Wicca then? which Tradition do you follow? I've been a wiccan for 6 years now so I'm still learning, which I don't mine. I believe in reincarnation and if you're Wicca, you should be following the LORD and the LADY not just one specific god. That one god is my deity, my teacher... Age is an important part of the question as well, unless you're over 18/21 (depending on your location and/or the coven) you will not be initiated. I am over 18 Why don't you follow the Lord and Lady? the lord and the lady they are just not my deities. Christians are well aware that there are other religions besides their own, some just don't acknowledge that they exist. Not really, a lot of the christians are blind sighted. And how is changing the energy around her not changing Wicca? your main belief is to follow the Lord and Lady. she's not changing wicca..she went power wise...not everyone has to believe in the lord and lady
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