|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:53 pm
Von Kyon -xXGodslayer_RaiXx- Von Kyon -xXGodslayer_RaiXx- Abortion isn't murder and isn't even close to it. I'm sorry but last I checked you are technically considered alive when you come out into this world via the birth canal not when your parents ********. A human can think differently, move voluntarily, and has some sort of higher level of thinking. A fetus cannot think, cannot move voluntarily, and doesn't have any cognitive abilites. Think I'm wrong, lemme ask you this? Can a fetus explain Einstein's theory of relativity? Can a fetus explain Piaget's theories of a human's growth cycle? Can a fetus explain Freud's theories of personality and growth? Does a fetus know right from wrong? I know it would be great to have smart intelligent babies walking and talking right when they come out but its not possible. Another thing I've been hearing. Will the fetus become the next president? Possibly considering that our president's an idiot, sure its possible but you have to take the good with the bad. The fetus could possibly be the next gangbanger, could be the next crackbaby, the next Al Capone, the next John Dillanger, the next Jeffery Dalmer, the next John Wayne Gacy. Do you understand what this could mean? Abortion is already settled law. You know why? Because it gave women the right to do whatever they want with their body. It gave us rights. And if you make it illegal then you're basically saying that women shouldn't have any rights and that we should be treated as second class citizens. To me anyways. And kids are still going to have sex you know why? Because abstinence doesn't help its making it worst. We need to teach kids to use condoms and birth control. (I am a feminist but more of the 1970's definition the ones who fought for women to be free. Who fought for abortion.) Have you ever been pregnant? xd Ever seen an ultrasound on a 6 week old fetus? Didn't think so. A fetus will become a human given that it doesn't die first, thus making it entirely possible for that fetus to become president. Oh, and half of the world, if not more, can't explain a single one of those theories. I'm not saying abortion should be illegal, but if that's your argument to keep it legal, you're doing very poorly. Well considering that I'm only 17, I shouldn't be pregnant nor should see an ultrasound. Remember Thou shalt not have sex till marriage so are you saying that I should become a statistic so I know how painful going through pregnacy is. Wow you're really smart and if I'm guessing right a hypocrite. Uh, what? First of all, I don't know how old you are, second, I never said anything about waiting until marriage because I haven't and I don't want to. I'm not saying you should be a statistic, and I'm not saying you need to be pregnant to know that fetus' can move. I've never been pregnant, and I know that. So before you start throwing out things and stating them as fact, try doing some research first. Because not doing the research beforehand makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about in regards to fetus' and pregnancy (which you obviously don't.) And yes, it's entirely possible for a fetus to become and rapist or whatever once it's a full-grown human. It could become anything. But that is based on it's surroundings and it's parents. I never said anything about it breathing, but I do know a fetus has a heart that beats while in the womb. And I DID say, which you obviously didn't read, that I was not for abortion being illegal. Stop assuming things. It makes an a** out of you, and me. In order for a human being to live it needs to breathe O2. Oxygen. I did read that you weren't for abortion being illegal I was making a statement to everyone not just you. When I meant a fetus cannot move voluntarily I meant it can't move on its accord. If I kick you, I'm thinking about and act on it. A fetus does it without thinking. Thus it not having any cognitive abilities. And I am an a**. Tell me something I don't already know.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:46 pm
<3
Babies get what they need to live from the mother's placenta. They cannot breath, but they are given the nutrients from, again, the placenta. You can't say a fetus is not a living thing, because it's proven that it is. And we all know fetus' become human assuming they live that long.
<3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:12 pm
etchedspirit Ok, so in my point of veiw abortion is murder. Even though the baby is not fully formed, and it has not been born yet, it's still taking away a life. If this still does not convince you, then why is it that when someone kills a pregnant lady they charge the person who did it with a double homicide? Why would they say that it was 2 murders and not just one....the baby is not born yet.... Now, say a girl were to get raped, then later finds out she was pregnant. I would then be in favor of the abortion if she so chooses because she didn't have sex at will, she was raped. I mean, if you think about it, how difficult would it be on the child, when he/she grows up then his/her mother having to tell him/her that they are the result of rape, that they are the child of her rapist. That's really hard on them, and could possibly scar him/her emotionally forever. If a girl goes and has sex then gets pregnant, that's her fault. She screwed up, made a mistake, whatever you want to call it, it was willful and she has to face the consequenses of her actions. Those are my thoughts, what are yours? Even if a girl gets raped, it's stilll a life, whether you like it or not!! scream
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:19 pm
stv_drummer23 etchedspirit Ok, so in my point of veiw abortion is murder. Even though the baby is not fully formed, and it has not been born yet, it's still taking away a life. If this still does not convince you, then why is it that when someone kills a pregnant lady they charge the person who did it with a double homicide? Why would they say that it was 2 murders and not just one....the baby is not born yet.... Now, say a girl were to get raped, then later finds out she was pregnant. I would then be in favor of the abortion if she so chooses because she didn't have sex at will, she was raped. I mean, if you think about it, how difficult would it be on the child, when he/she grows up then his/her mother having to tell him/her that they are the result of rape, that they are the child of her rapist. That's really hard on them, and could possibly scar him/her emotionally forever. If a girl goes and has sex then gets pregnant, that's her fault. She screwed up, made a mistake, whatever you want to call it, it was willful and she has to face the consequenses of her actions. Those are my thoughts, what are yours? Even if a girl gets raped, it's stilll a life, whether you like it or not!! scream Excuse me, but I'm sorry. A women has the right to chose between abortion and keeping. A man such as yourself does not have any right to force a woman to do anything. It is our 9th amendment right as American citizens to do whatever we want with our bodies. YOU do not have any say in it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:40 am
-xXGodslayer_RaiXx- stv_drummer23 etchedspirit Ok, so in my point of veiw abortion is murder. Even though the baby is not fully formed, and it has not been born yet, it's still taking away a life. If this still does not convince you, then why is it that when someone kills a pregnant lady they charge the person who did it with a double homicide? Why would they say that it was 2 murders and not just one....the baby is not born yet.... Now, say a girl were to get raped, then later finds out she was pregnant. I would then be in favor of the abortion if she so chooses because she didn't have sex at will, she was raped. I mean, if you think about it, how difficult would it be on the child, when he/she grows up then his/her mother having to tell him/her that they are the result of rape, that they are the child of her rapist. That's really hard on them, and could possibly scar him/her emotionally forever. If a girl goes and has sex then gets pregnant, that's her fault. She screwed up, made a mistake, whatever you want to call it, it was willful and she has to face the consequenses of her actions. Those are my thoughts, what are yours? Even if a girl gets raped, it's stilll a life, whether you like it or not!! scream Excuse me, but I'm sorry. A women has the right to chose between abortion and keeping. A man such as yourself does not have any right to force a woman to do anything. It is our 9th amendment right as American citizens to do whatever we want with our bodies. YOU do not have any say in it.
<3
Excuse me? Men don't have any say in the life of the child they helped create? This is the problem with feminists like you. You're too caught up in fighting for equal rights or whatever the s**t you're fighting for, that you're putting men lower than even dogs. It's disgusting really. Putting other humans down just because they don't have a c**t between their legs.
Just because men don't have a baby coming from their orifices doesn't mean they have no say in it. They helped create the child.
<3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:17 pm
Von Kyon -xXGodslayer_RaiXx- stv_drummer23 etchedspirit Ok, so in my point of veiw abortion is murder. Even though the baby is not fully formed, and it has not been born yet, it's still taking away a life. If this still does not convince you, then why is it that when someone kills a pregnant lady they charge the person who did it with a double homicide? Why would they say that it was 2 murders and not just one....the baby is not born yet.... Now, say a girl were to get raped, then later finds out she was pregnant. I would then be in favor of the abortion if she so chooses because she didn't have sex at will, she was raped. I mean, if you think about it, how difficult would it be on the child, when he/she grows up then his/her mother having to tell him/her that they are the result of rape, that they are the child of her rapist. That's really hard on them, and could possibly scar him/her emotionally forever. If a girl goes and has sex then gets pregnant, that's her fault. She screwed up, made a mistake, whatever you want to call it, it was willful and she has to face the consequenses of her actions. Those are my thoughts, what are yours? Even if a girl gets raped, it's stilll a life, whether you like it or not!! scream Excuse me, but I'm sorry. A women has the right to chose between abortion and keeping. A man such as yourself does not have any right to force a woman to do anything. It is our 9th amendment right as American citizens to do whatever we want with our bodies. YOU do not have any say in it.
<3
Excuse me? Men don't have any say in the life of the child they helped create? This is the problem with feminists like you. You're too caught up in fighting for equal rights or whatever the s**t you're fighting for, that you're putting men lower than even dogs. It's disgusting really. Putting other humans down just because they don't have a c**t between their legs.
Just because men don't have a baby coming from their orifices doesn't mean they have no say in it. They helped create the child.
<3
Actually when a teen gets pregnant the father skips out. So why would someone who runs with their tail between thier legs have the choice whether the child should live or die. They abandoned it. So why should they get any say? Why should they care? I have issues with guys who do that. Seriously it pissed me off when guys run out on their pregnant girlfriends. And I wasn't putting men done. I was merely stating a fact. What do men know about women? What do they know what goes through a women's mind? How do they know how a women knows when its that time of the month or when they're pregnant or when they're in labor? They don't. They have absoulutely no ******** clue. Andthe word feminist is so misconstrued in today's society. The typical feminist is a pro-lifer who thinks that women shouldn't have rights and should stay home. Why do you think I represented the 1970's definition? And I wasn't meaning for abortion I made once again another general statement that you once again misinterpreted. I was meaning that a woman should do whatever they want with your body. And I wasn't talking about just abortion. I was taking about piercings, tattoos, tanning, etc. So instead of trying to find a single flaw in my post and exploit me for it or trying to prove that I'm wrong try finding the deeper meanings of what I'm saying or am trying to say.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:59 pm
Just a heads up, but I'm gonna move this thread to the debate forum in an hour or so. Just a warning so you don't all wonder where it disappeared to.
Also, watch the language. Guild policy discourages swearing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:57 am
<3
Not every man runs out on their pregnant girlfriend, whether she's a teenager or not. I know men who have been loads more responsible with their children than the mothers have, and most of these men were younger too. Your generalizations of men are just disturbing and so faulty that it's almost hilarious.
Try being in a real relationship with a man before trying to even understand a small part of them. Men are just as emotional, just as caring, and just as hurt by their partner as women.
You are far too young to even understand what you're talking about. I'm only 3 or 4 years older than you, but trust me, it makes a huge difference.
<3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:06 am
Wow, you are amazingly ignorant, Godslayer.
Firstly- not all men run away.
Secondly- Her body her choice- Right. when and only when her choices do not harm other beings. In the case of abortion, the fetus. I agree, men should not decide whether feti live or die. Neither should women. Neither should priests. Neither should doctors or baseball players.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:58 pm
divineseraph Wow, you are amazingly ignorant, Godslayer. Firstly- not all men run away. Secondly- Her body her choice- Right. when and only when her choices do not harm other beings. In the case of abortion, the fetus. I agree, men should not decide whether feti live or die. Neither should women. Neither should priests. Neither should doctors or baseball players. And so are most of the people that I know and have to grow up with..(ie people in my school). Ignorance is bliss am I right. These are my opinions and my observations. You can disagree with them all you want and call me as many things as you want and I honestly don't care. What you say can't and will not change my mind. Not all men run away...most do...depending on the situation. The woman should make the decision but with the doctor's guidence. You or we don't know if the fetus could be harming her or vice versa. If it is life-threatening then an abortion should be done either way. (Whether the fetus is going to have any life-threatening injuries, cancer, etc or if having the baby will kill the mother). I still think that the rape victim should have an abortion again with the guidance of a doctor or a medical examiner. But if someone fooled around and is pregnant they can have that option but they shouldn't make it so easy to happen. (Maybe have the doctor play devil's advocate..but not to a point to make them feel guilty. I'm not saying give them the third degree. That's the one thing you don't want to do.) If they still want to go through it let them, its there choice ultimately and if the fetus could talk or be able to communicate (in a way for humans to understand like ASL or something like that) that would be easier. But its the same for euthanasia. It has to be decided by the parents or the parent or legal guardian spouse whatever... I know I may be young but that doesn't mean that I can't voice my opinion that could one day actually affect me in some way. When I do get married if that happens I refuse to have kids of my own. Absoulutely refuse to have kids. Another thing, my name is Rai. Godslayer was what I got from a video game and it sounded cool. Once I complete my dream avi and get 10k I'm changing my name to Jigoku_Shoujo...or something like that..
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:31 pm
But why give someone the option to kill another being, especially one consensually created through known actions with knows results? Nobody should have the right to kill another human being, in war or abortion or even simple murder.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:28 pm
divineseraph But why give someone the option to kill another being, especially one consensually created through known actions with knows results? Nobody should have the right to kill another human being, in war or abortion or even simple murder. First we are not talking about human beings Second abortion stats are more so related to socio-economic* factors then poor choices think about how high up the ladder you were born rather then just looking down on everyone below you (this has nothing to do with one person being better then another) *spell check plz
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:42 pm
lordstar divineseraph But why give someone the option to kill another being, especially one consensually created through known actions with knows results? Nobody should have the right to kill another human being, in war or abortion or even simple murder. First we are not talking about human beings Second abortion stats are more so related to socio-economic* factors then poor choices think about how high up the ladder you were born rather then just looking down on everyone below you (this has nothing to do with one person being better then another) *spell check plz Yes, yes we are talking about human beings. Feti are humans, and as such are human beings. Who was talking stats here? I was talking about morality and law and rules, not who does what and why. Unless you are implying that the poor should be able to do things other people can't, such as murder or steal... Otherwise it's not revelant to the point I was making. I happen to be middle class, raised by a single parent. But what does it matter in any respect? To say that any argument is applicable or incorrect based on who I am rather than the argument itself, that's logical fallacy of Ad Hominem. You say that I look down on others for being lower class? No, but I do look down on people for killing others- I look down on Cheney and General Electric and Planned Parenthood and Adolf Hitler. These are, ironically, all quite wealthy. Irony of ironies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:59 pm
divineseraph But why give someone the option to kill another being, especially one consensually created through known actions with knows results? Nobody should have the right to kill another human being, in war or abortion or even simple murder. They shouldn't but they are going to do it anyways no matter what you try to do. Society in itself is corrupt. The wealthy live the great wonderful lifestyle while the poor suffer. Now I have born into an upper middle class family so you coud say I'm like you. But have you ever been to the inner city? Have you seen how many poor people there are? Do you know how hard it is to raise a family in those conditions? Of course not you probably have a nice comfy home in the middle of surburbia why should you care or worry about how poor people live? You say you don't look down on people who are economically unfit right? That's kinda hard to believe. What do you do to solve poverity in the U.S. By ending abortion you do realize that these poor people who have no money for birth control and other things are going to have more kids and will be able to take care of them. I know you'll say "Well that's what adoption's there for" But does it really help solve the problem or does it create a bigger one?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:26 am
divineseraph lordstar divineseraph But why give someone the option to kill another being, especially one consensually created through known actions with knows results? Nobody should have the right to kill another human being, in war or abortion or even simple murder. First we are not talking about human beings Second abortion stats are more so related to socio-economic* factors then poor choices think about how high up the ladder you were born rather then just looking down on everyone below you (this has nothing to do with one person being better then another) *spell check plz Yes, yes we are talking about human beings. Feti are humans, and as such are human beings. Who was talking stats here? I was talking about morality and law and rules, not who does what and why. Unless you are implying that the poor should be able to do things other people can't, such as murder or steal... Otherwise it's not revelant to the point I was making. I happen to be middle class, raised by a single parent. But what does it matter in any respect? To say that any argument is applicable or incorrect based on who I am rather than the argument itself, that's logical fallacy of Ad Hominem. You say that I look down on others for being lower class? No, but I do look down on people for killing others- I look down on Cheney and General Electric and Planned Parenthood and Adolf Hitler. These are, ironically, all quite wealthy. Irony of ironies. first you said "especially one consensually created through known actions with knows results" then I said "abortion stats are more so related to socio-economic* factors then poor choices" not even close to "any argument is applicable or incorrect based on who I am rather than the argument itself" then I said "this has nothing to do with one person being better then another" did you miss this part or something because you said "I look down on Cheney and General Electric and Planned Parenthood and Adolf Hitler" not everyone is like you and it is far from fair to say "especially one consensually created through known actions with knows results" when you have no idea what kind of environment other people live in and what factors play a part so try not to judge people trying to climb the ladder no one was talking stats I said economics and social environment are the heavy factors you were not talking about law but rather you think based on your view of what morality should be and given feti are humans abortion = murder oh and I would think that perhaps there is more to being human then just DNA (lets try and pick something measurable please)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
