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 Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:14 pm
Rhed King Medeus Rhed King 1. I TRIED TO BUT IT WAS HARD xd 2. I THINK LOVE (FOR THE MOST PART) IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE UP TO INTERPRETATION. PERHAPS ITS A MORE CONFUSING THING FOR ME THAN YOU. BUT APPARENTLY AS SOON AS YOU HAVE A CHILD OF YOUR OWN IT BECOMES PRETTY CLEAR. I GUESS ILL GET BACK TO YOU IN 10-20 YEARS 3. I THINK WE'RE PRETTY MUCH SAYING THE SAME THING HERE. EXCEPT THAT PHILOSOPHICALLY ITS HARD TO SAY SOMETHING IS INTRINSICALLY RIGHT OR WRONG. THE ENTIRE MORAL COMPASS IS BASED ON WHICH PARTY YELLS THE LOUDEST. IN A LESS CONSTRUCTED SOCIETY, WHATS SO BAD ABOUT KILLING? IT PROBABLY BENEFITS YOU, AND YOU'RE PRIORITY NUMBER ONE. OF COURSE THIS BRINGS US INTO AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT DISCUSSION, BUT RELEVENT NONE THE LESS. lol Mmkay, well answer me this then: What happens when you die? WHUT. I HAVE NO IDEA AND NEITHER DO YOU. PHYSICALLY, YOUR BODY DECAYS AND ROTS IN GENERALLY 3 TO FIVE WEEKS. OTHER THAN THAT, IM CLUELESS. Well did you know that there are people who Do claim to know? What do you think about those people? (Literally all those people, not just christians, but anybody/everybody).
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:25 pm
HOLY s**t
ALL OF THIS HAS BEN TL;DR FOR THE PAST FEW DAYS/PAGES.
AUGH. CAPS LOCK CANNOT ACCENTUATE MY AMNESTY TOWARDS THIS BLABBERING ON.
CAPS LOCK IS MAKING THIS SEEM ANGRIER THAN IT IS.
SUGGEST: PM. I WANT TO POST THAT MY CAT SPIT UP A HAIRBALL ON MY PANTS AND HAVE NO ONE CARE ABOUT IT. AT LEAST THEY'LL READ IT RATHER THAN BE BLOCKED UP BY THOUGHTFUL PHILOSOPHICAL INSIGHTS.
LIKE I SAID, IT JUST SEEMS ANGRY. NOT REALLY MAD, JUST APPEARS THAT WAY.
THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS NOT YOURS. IM DAVE HUNTER, ON YOUR MORNING X.
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:30 pm
Medeus Well did you know that there are people who Do claim to know? What do you think about those people? (Literally all those people, not just christians, but anybody/everybody). well this is the reality bit. there is no evidence to suggest any theory is more right or wrong, so whatever they wish to believe is fine. i think if they claim that they do know, they should reconsider, having never experienced it. you cant say your a good swimmer if all you've done is watched instructional videos and exercised the appropriate muscles. you might very well find you'll still sink like a rock. but i always considered that i wasnt in a position to judge, considering i dont have a view i can stick to. ive thought of reincarnation, being a ghost. refusing death, heaven and hell, and all the related archtypes. in the end i just dont know. i guess you could say im taking my sweet time guessing. but if anyone's guess makes them feel more confident, who should take that away from them? i only would look down on those who want to force their beliefs on me, considering they know no better than me. its arrogant at that level. in other news, now ive got what is love stuck in my head.
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:38 pm
Rhed King Medeus Well did you know that there are people who Do claim to know? What do you think about those people? (Literally all those people, not just christians, but anybody/everybody). well this is the reality bit. there is no evidence to suggest any theory is more right or wrong, so whatever they wish to believe is fine. i think if they claim that they do know, they should reconsider, having never experienced it. you cant say your a good swimmer if all you've done is watched instructional videos and exercised the appropriate muscles. you might very well find you'll still sink like a rock. but i always considered that i wasnt in a position to judge, considering i dont have a view i can stick to. ive thought of reincarnation, being a ghost. refusing death, heaven and hell, and all the related archtypes. in the end i just dont know. i guess you could say im taking my sweet time guessing. but if anyone's guess makes them feel more confident, who should take that away from them? i only would look down on those who want to force their beliefs on me, considering they know no better than me. its arrogant at that level. Actually that's not true. There is a lot of evidence to support some theories more than others, but I'm guessing you haven't really taken the time to look. Do some research, seek out the truth, because if people claim to know it, you have the ability to learn what they know and decide whether or not it's right for you. In fact, if you don't know, you deserve to know what other people know, especially if it could affect you one way or another, don't you? By your own analogy, I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that you haven't even bothered to watch any of the swimming videos, or exercise any of the proper muscles, because you figure you're bound to sink like a rock regardless. But if you see some people swimming, it would be fair for you learn how they do it. Obviously, nobody can Make you learn, or even want to learn, but like I said before, the truth invites examination, and it would only be to your Benefit to seek it out. I'm not trying to force anything on you, because you're right, that would be arrogant. But I do want to empower your ability to look into and research something if you don't know about it, because there are people who claim to know the truth, and I think it's better to look at what they say and decide for yourself, then to ignore it right off the bat, assuming it will have no value. Sound fair?
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:06 am
I feel that since no one has died, and been able to explain this experience, that we have no evidence. people base their assumption on things that they hold true to believe. If i wanted the truth, well, id have to find a way to feign death in such a manner so that all important elements of the world would infact take me for dead. Im assuming two things. one if god is real he's not going to fall for that s**t, considering he is/would be all knowing. two i dont think i would be in a state that would allow me to experience waht actually happened. considering people can draw on your face while asleep and you dont even notice that. doing research, like you suggest, while noble, is only brushing up on other people theories, to which they will attempt to prove as fact. there is no unbiased source regarding death. prove me wrong, please, because it would be a great experience.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:21 am
Rhed King I feel that since no one has died, and been able to explain this experience, that we have no evidence. people base their assumption on things that they hold true to believe. If i wanted the truth, well, id have to find a way to feign death in such a manner so that all important elements of the world would infact take me for dead. Im assuming two things. one if god is real he's not going to fall for that s**t, considering he is/would be all knowing. two i dont think i would be in a state that would allow me to experience waht actually happened. considering people can draw on your face while asleep and you dont even notice that. doing research, like you suggest, while noble, is only brushing up on other people theories, to which they will attempt to prove as fact. there is no unbiased source regarding death. prove me wrong, please, because it would be a great experience. Some of the very things you're talking about are evidence that you haven't bothered to do the research. Christians claim that Jesus came back from the dead, and that he came to save you from something he knew was true about your condition. Historically, there is no proof that none of it happened. They've been digging up Biblical cities and artifacts for years now. The only reason we know so much about the Roman Empire is because of the eye-witness accounts that were compiled in the Bible. And if you learn anything about Scribal Tradition, you'll learn how hard it would be for an entire religious party to make a mistake that would change everything they believe in. Did you know they've found over 25,000 copies of the original Biblical letters, and that the ONLY differences they found were in Spelling and Grammar? If you wanted to, you could go visit those cities yourself, and notice how coincidental it is that's it's exactly where the Bible said it was, or you could do the research online that will tell you the exact same thing. Now, Obviously none of that is finite "proof" that the Bible is true, but it definitely racks up a great deal of supporting evidence For it's theories. You can look into other religions and find historical evidence of their own if you want, and I'd be more than willing to go into any of that with you, though, once again, I can't make you want to know anything. Also, none of this may prove exactly what happens after death, but you've admitted yourself, and I'm willing to admit that Nobody has any actual definite "proof" of that. I think it would be reasonable to look into the things that have reasonable evidentiary support and see what they have to say about the matter, eh?
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:55 am
It's important to remember that history is written by the winners. None of us were there, so none of us can say if any of this historical stuff about Christianity is 100% true because they did their best to wipe out all opposing evidence waaaaaaaay back when. It's kind of naive to unquestioningly trust the word of a group that killed well over a million people to get their point across, especially not one that holds 'thou shalt not kill' as a core value.
Also, my dealer was dead for about a minute. He recounted his experience to me, and that solidified my beliefs about the afterlife and the thoughts-are-creative mentality. He said that he was in the hospital bed, looking down on himself, and then he thought about his sister, and BAM he was beside her, and then he thought about his mom, and BAM he was beside her, and then he thought "I've gotta go back and tell everyone about this!" and BAM he was alive.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:03 am
Cabron LaSwan
It's important to remember that history is written by the winners. None of us were there, so none of us can say if any of this historical stuff about Christianity is 100% true because they did their best to wipe out all opposing evidence waaaaaaaay back when. It's kind of naive to unquestioningly trust the word of a group that killed well over a million people to get their point across, especially not one that holds 'thou shalt not kill' as a core value. Didn't I just say that there technically isn't any definite Proof? You're right, there were lots of people who wanted to destroy the evidence, but interestingly enough, it's still here. If those who wanted to destroy christianity had succeeded, we wouldn't even be having this discussion now would we. So obviously there must be some merit to Evidence, because it's not like this Christianity thing sprouted up overnight. History was written by the Winners; clearly, the Christians were winners enough to pass on the message. I could contend that No man who uses the word of the Bible to justify doing Wrong was truly a man who believed what he 'preached'. I think there are many of those in the Church who wouldn't associate themselves with those killers, calling themselves part of the same group. If they all really believed the same thing, they wouldn't have killed so many people, wouldn't have killed any people, so obviously they were doing something wrong, and I promise you God finds more offense by those who do Wrong in His Name than those who choose to ignore him completely. I believe in something that's survived for centuries, and I've killed no man. There are millions other surviving today who'll tell you the same thing. You can Judge for yourself whether our good deeds and good attitudes come from the same spirit as those who delight in terrible deeds, or those who wrote about the truth before them.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:11 am
THOUGHTS EVERYWHERE
-A willpower-based afterlife? I can live (lol) with this.
-This thread got derailed into "I'M RIGHT" "NO I'M RIGHT" "NO I'M RIGHT PROVE ME WRONG"
-I'm a combination of nervous and anxious. I want to know who is the lead, and if I am, I want to know when I start.
-I've chased this for a very long time. It's not really because I'm particularly thrilled to work at Walmart, but it's more because of the fact that I have been working where (and how) I work for the past few years. It's only natural that I take my place where I should be, as the lead.
There used to be people better than me, so I allowed them to take it. Now it's not so true anymore. It's my time. biggrin
-Me: So when do we find out who's the new lead?
Charlie: Uh...Tuesday. I need to get with my co-manager so we can discuss the issue. She may have someone else in mind. I know who I want *he looks at me, I raise my eyebrow*
Me: Er, OK.
(I've been told that before stare )
-If I get this new position, my pay will go up by 1-2 dollars an hour. Combined with my evaluation raise (40 cents), I should be looking at ~12.00-13.00. I think my first lead-based check will go towards a saxophone. After bills, of course.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:21 am
Medeus Didn't I just say that there technically isn't any definite Proof? You're right, there were lots of people who wanted to destroy the evidence, but interestingly enough, it's still here. If those who wanted to destroy christianity had succeeded, we wouldn't even be having this discussion now would we. So obviously there must be some merit to Evidence, because it's not like this Christianity thing sprouted up overnight. History was written by the Winners; clearly, the Christians were winners enough to pass on the message. I could contend that No man who uses the word of the Bible to justify doing Wrong was truly a man who believed what he 'preached'. I think there are many of those in the Church who wouldn't associate themselves with those killers, calling themselves part of the same group. If they all really believed the same thing, they wouldn't have killed so many people, wouldn't have killed any people, so obviously they were doing something wrong, and I promise you God finds more offense by those who do Wrong in His Name than those who choose to ignore him completely. I believe in something that's survived for centuries, and I've killed no man. There are millions other surviving today who'll tell you the same thing. You can Judge for yourself whether our good deeds and good attitudes come from the same spirit as those who delight in terrible deeds, or those who wrote about the truth before them. 
Umm, no, the evidence they wanted us to see is still here. What was destroyed we don't know about, because it was destroyed. I was talking about the crusades - the massacres done in the Christian God's name between 1000 and 1250 AD that aimed to destroy the opposing faiths. If all those zealots truly believed in Christianity, why did they go directly against their teachings and kill so many people to prove it? Didn't you just say that doing 'wrong' in God's name would upset him/her more than completely ignoring him/her?
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:30 am
Cabron LaSwan Medeus Didn't I just say that there technically isn't any definite Proof? You're right, there were lots of people who wanted to destroy the evidence, but interestingly enough, it's still here. If those who wanted to destroy christianity had succeeded, we wouldn't even be having this discussion now would we. So obviously there must be some merit to Evidence, because it's not like this Christianity thing sprouted up overnight. History was written by the Winners; clearly, the Christians were winners enough to pass on the message. I could contend that No man who uses the word of the Bible to justify doing Wrong was truly a man who believed what he 'preached'. I think there are many of those in the Church who wouldn't associate themselves with those killers, calling themselves part of the same group. If they all really believed the same thing, they wouldn't have killed so many people, wouldn't have killed any people, so obviously they were doing something wrong, and I promise you God finds more offense by those who do Wrong in His Name than those who choose to ignore him completely. I believe in something that's survived for centuries, and I've killed no man. There are millions other surviving today who'll tell you the same thing. You can Judge for yourself whether our good deeds and good attitudes come from the same spirit as those who delight in terrible deeds, or those who wrote about the truth before them. [imgaslf]http://blastmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/facepalm.jpg[/imgagaslgalgh]
Umm, no, the evidence they wanted us to see is still here. What was destroyed we don't know about, because it was destroyed. I was talking about the crusades - the massacres done in the Christian God's name between 1000 and 1250 AD that aimed to destroy the opposing faiths. If all those zealots truly believed in Christianity, why did they go directly against their teachings and kill so many people to prove it? Didn't you just say that doing 'wrong' in God's name would upset him/her more than completely ignoring him/her? Obviously you haven't actually done any kind of research on this. I'd recommend looking up the Dead Sea Scrolls. Aside from those, most of what they've recovered that is in the bible today was Dug Up in the Middle East only recently. Now, you can look into all the techniques and estimations they use to Date an artifact, but they dug up things that were buried Long before the crusades were even a thing. There were things buried in the ground that the Crusaders had no idea about. That's exactly what I'm saying. IF all those zealots truly believed in Christianity, Truly were following the teachings they presumed to believe, they would not have killed all those people. Therefore, all those 'zealots' believed in the wrong thing; they weren't really Christians. See how they've already given God a bad name?
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:01 am
Medeus Obviously you haven't actually done any kind of research on this. I'd recommend looking up the Dead Sea Scrolls. Aside from those, most of what they've recovered that is in the bible today was Dug Up in the Middle East only recently. Now, you can look into all the techniques and estimations they use to Date an artifact, but they dug up things that were buried Long before the crusades were even a thing. There were things buried in the ground that the Crusaders had no idea about. That's exactly what I'm saying. IF all those zealots truly believed in Christianity, Truly were following the teachings they presumed to believe, they would not have killed all those people. Therefore, all those 'zealots' believed in the wrong thing; they weren't really Christians. See how they've already given God a bad name? We've done our research in different places and therefore reached different conclusions. Please don't try to imply that I'm ignorant because I believe in different things than you.
Those 'not really Christians' are the people who wrote the surviving version of the Bible, the one that modern Christians are living by. If they weren't truly Christians, what does that make the people who live by their teachings? Jesus taught unconditional love, not judgment. Jesus forgave and loved his killers as they killed him. Where did this condemnation of 'sinners' and lust for 'justice' come from? Why do you look down on those who have done 'wrong' in your eyes when the person who started your entire religion would have loved, accepted, and forgiven them regardless of what they'd done? How did the teachings change so drastically, if not by the hand of man?
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Sharkbutt The Orgiastic Crew
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:44 am
Med, do you mind if I post the Saul/Paul thing here? It's actually really relevant right now, having to do with the Dead Sea Scrolls and the idea that the surviving version of the Bible is the one that simply eclipsed all others.
(Haha, when you describe it like that it sounds like a literary survival of the fittest. XD)
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:32 am
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:17 am
SEE. NO ONE WILL PAY ATTENTION TO THIS. SO MUCH TL;DR. WHAT'S WRONG CARA?
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