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 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:32 am
Medeus Cabron LaSwan Medeus It seems that Laughter is a physical reaction to Truth, and absurdities that contradict truth which are funny simply because you know it ISN'T True.... Someone prove me wrong. wink Isn't that the rule of humor? Something is funny because it is unexpected, out of place, or otherwise contradicts what one is used to seeing. A wrench is funny in a bowl of fruit because it belongs in a toolbox. I think I read a Wikipedia article on this once. It makes sense because 'funny' also means 'strange'. Well yeah, but I think most people focus simply on the absurdity, not realizing that the only reason they know it's absurd in the first place, is because they're aware of the subject's Truth on some level, and laughter (among numerous other physical/emotional reactions) is a reaction to AND a reflection of Truth in the world. Know what I mean? I wouldn't call it truth as much as conditioning. I mean, if you were raised in a society where everyone had mullets, they probably wouldn't seem so ridiculous. A sense of humor is more of a learned behavior; that's why everyone's is different.
Actually, I think most of our emotional responses are conditioned into us. Feelings of guilt, jealousy, superiority or inferiority, etc., for example, all come from what our society has taught us is right, wrong, desirable, and respectable. I think if these things came from one central, innate truth, they wouldn't be so vastly different for everyone.
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:35 am
Cabron LaSwan Medeus Cabron LaSwan Medeus It seems that Laughter is a physical reaction to Truth, and absurdities that contradict truth which are funny simply because you know it ISN'T True.... Someone prove me wrong. wink Isn't that the rule of humor? Something is funny because it is unexpected, out of place, or otherwise contradicts what one is used to seeing. A wrench is funny in a bowl of fruit because it belongs in a toolbox. I think I read a Wikipedia article on this once. It makes sense because 'funny' also means 'strange'. Well yeah, but I think most people focus simply on the absurdity, not realizing that the only reason they know it's absurd in the first place, is because they're aware of the subject's Truth on some level, and laughter (among numerous other physical/emotional reactions) is a reaction to AND a reflection of Truth in the world. Know what I mean? I wouldn't call it truth as much as conditioning. I mean, if you were raised in a society where everyone had mullets, they probably wouldn't seem so ridiculous. A sense of humor is more of a learned behavior; that's why everyone's is different.
Actually, I think most of our emotional responses are conditioned into us. Feelings of guilt, jealousy, superiority or inferiority, etc., for example, all come from what our society has taught us is right, wrong, desirable, and respectable. I think if these things came from one central, innate truth, they wouldn't be so vastly different for everyone. Are they really so vastly different? Everywhere you go, people have a sense of what's right and wrong. Communities all have Rules, and more often then not, those rules are similar to other communities, even with the variants. Evil is recognizable to anybody who comes across it, no matter where they're from. Isn't it?
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:02 pm
Medeus Cabron LaSwan Medeus Cabron LaSwan Medeus It seems that Laughter is a physical reaction to Truth, and absurdities that contradict truth which are funny simply because you know it ISN'T True.... Someone prove me wrong. wink Isn't that the rule of humor? Something is funny because it is unexpected, out of place, or otherwise contradicts what one is used to seeing. A wrench is funny in a bowl of fruit because it belongs in a toolbox. I think I read a Wikipedia article on this once. It makes sense because 'funny' also means 'strange'. Well yeah, but I think most people focus simply on the absurdity, not realizing that the only reason they know it's absurd in the first place, is because they're aware of the subject's Truth on some level, and laughter (among numerous other physical/emotional reactions) is a reaction to AND a reflection of Truth in the world. Know what I mean? I wouldn't call it truth as much as conditioning. I mean, if you were raised in a society where everyone had mullets, they probably wouldn't seem so ridiculous. A sense of humor is more of a learned behavior; that's why everyone's is different.
Actually, I think most of our emotional responses are conditioned into us. Feelings of guilt, jealousy, superiority or inferiority, etc., for example, all come from what our society has taught us is right, wrong, desirable, and respectable. I think if these things came from one central, innate truth, they wouldn't be so vastly different for everyone. Are they really so vastly different? Everywhere you go, people have a sense of what's right and wrong. Communities all have Rules, and more often then not, those rules are similar to other communities, even with the variants. Evil is recognizable to anybody who comes across it, no matter where they're from. Isn't it? Not quite. For example, if you lived in a third-world society where everyone had to cooperate to survive, hoarding things for yourself and focusing solely on accumulating your own wealth would be frowned upon (and possibly even get you killed) whereas in our society, the self-made rich are often seen as role models. While every place does have its own rules, what's important to remember is that no one set of rules is the 'right' or 'truthful' set for everyone. Humor is a product of culture, and culture is such a wonderful thing because it is so vastly different everywhere you go.
Also, I think I've said this before: there is no such thing as evil, only justification. There is nobody on this planet who does s**t just to hurt people and be a d**k, and if they assert that they do, they probably have some deep-seated reason for being the way they are, whether that reason makes sense to anyone else or not. People are not malicious by nature; they are malicious by motivation. I'm going to use an example from Christianity to try and drive this home.
Remember that one time, when Jesus went out to the desert for three days, and Satan showed up and said "show me one act of worship and I'll give you all the kingdoms of the world" or something like that? Well, suppose it had been someone else in Jesus' shoes. Sure, some people would have done it, but it would have been more because they were tempted by the offer, and less because they actually wanted to do the act of worship. Does that make sense? Immoral acts are just hoops some people believe they have to jump through to get what they want.
God is love, right? So if we were created in God's image, doesn't that mean we are all love, deep down? Sometimes we might do things we would rather not to accomplish the things we love, but every emotion, every act, everything on this planet can be traced back to love if you follow it far enough. The only 'evil' that exists in my eyes is the fear-based belief that it does; the mentality fosters judgment and condemnation over compassion and understanding, and is probably responsible for more death and suffering over history through crusades, jihads, genocides, hate crimes, etc., than every temptation-motivated act combined.
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:10 pm
Interview was done a few days ago - now to find out what happens. Again.
Ball's in their court, and I should be able to find out today. Hmmm.
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:06 pm
That room was amazing. I am getting it. Little house with cute wood floors, a few blocks from the farmer's market, super-cool roommates who are currently using my room (which has a gorgeously enormous window and an equally gorgeous and enormous cabinet) to practice guitar.
They said another girl was looking at it too, but I think they might be talking about Cabron, since I grudgingly went by my legal name today. I'll go check out all the other places I've lined up, just in case.
The only thing is they only have wireless internet, which means I will have to buy one of those USB wireless stick thingies because my new computer doesn't have wireless compatibility yet. But I have $50 left over from what I thought the video card was going to cost, so it's paid for already. WINNING!
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:47 pm
My body is tired, but my mind isn't.
>:T
Y I NO AGREE WITH MYSELF
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:02 pm
Cabron LaSwan Not quite. For example, if you lived in a third-world society where everyone had to cooperate to survive, hoarding things for yourself and focusing solely on accumulating your own wealth would be frowned upon (and possibly even get you killed) whereas in our society, the self-made rich are often seen as role models. While every place does have its own rules, what's important to remember is that no one set of rules is the 'right' or 'truthful' set for everyone. Humor is a product of culture, and culture is such a wonderful thing because it is so vastly different everywhere you go.
Also, I think I've said this before: there is no such thing as evil, only justification. There is nobody on this planet who does s**t just to hurt people and be a d**k, and if they assert that they do, they probably have some deep-seated reason for being the way they are, whether that reason makes sense to anyone else or not. People are not malicious by nature; they are malicious by motivation. I'm going to use an example from Christianity to try and drive this home.
Remember that one time, when Jesus went out to the desert for three days, and Satan showed up and said "show me one act of worship and I'll give you all the kingdoms of the world" or something like that? Well, suppose it had been someone else in Jesus' shoes. Sure, some people would have done it, but it would have been more because they were tempted by the offer, and less because they actually wanted to do the act of worship. Does that make sense? Immoral acts are just hoops some people believe they have to jump through to get what they want.
God is love, right? So if we were created in God's image, doesn't that mean we are all love, deep down? Sometimes we might do things we would rather not to accomplish the things we love, but every emotion, every act, everything on this planet can be traced back to love if you follow it far enough. The only 'evil' that exists in my eyes is the fear-based belief that it does; the mentality fosters judgment and condemnation over compassion and understanding, and is probably responsible for more death and suffering over history through crusades, jihads, genocides, hate crimes, etc., than every temptation-motivated act combined. You speak greatly out of ignorance, and I'll forgive you for it, but I would strongly recommend you actually Learn what's in the bible before you use it in your arguments against it. I see a few contradictions in your statements. You say that we all have our own realities, that life is up to the creator, and We are the creators. But you also said that God is love, and love is in all of us. If love is in all of us, than all of us are responsible for applying it, and that means we all have a common understanding of what love is, and if Love is the standard, than Love is Truth, and the two are synonymous. You seem to be an expert on Justification. How do you justify the acts of Hitler and the Holocaust? How do you justify the acts of a Rapist against a defenseless girl? How do you justify a man who cheats on his wife? Because all of those things are realities, aren't they? If we all have our own individual reality, it's pretty incredible how two opposing realities can influence each other, isn't it? If we all have our own realities, why isn't any single human capable of changing it all for the better? I am genuinely asking you these questions because I don't know how you'll answer them, and I don't think I'm the only one here who wants to know, plus I'm only challenging you because I don't know if you've really thought through every thing you believe, and I think the challenge will be healthy for both of us. I'll even submit that if you're right, your logic will prove sound and truthful, and you'll have nothing to lose, right? wink
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:54 am
Man, I hate it when you guys get into these types of conversations. I don't think about this s**t often. Drives me insane.
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:28 am
Carchar-odin Man, I hate it when you guys get into these types of conversations. I don't think about this s**t often. Drives me insane.
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:48 am
Medeus You speak greatly out of ignorance, and I'll forgive you for it, but I would strongly recommend you actually Learn what's in the bible before you use it in your arguments against it. I see a few contradictions in your statements. You say that we all have our own realities, that life is up to the creator, and We are the creators. But you also said that God is love, and love is in all of us. If love is in all of us, than all of us are responsible for applying it, and that means we all have a common understanding of what love is, and if Love is the standard, than Love is Truth, and the two are synonymous. You seem to be an expert on Justification. How do you justify the acts of Hitler and the Holocaust? How do you justify the acts of a Rapist against a defenseless girl? How do you justify a man who cheats on his wife? Because all of those things are realities, aren't they? If we all have our own individual reality, it's pretty incredible how two opposing realities can influence each other, isn't it? If we all have our own realities, why isn't any single human capable of changing it all for the better? I am genuinely asking you these questions because I don't know how you'll answer them, and I don't think I'm the only one here who wants to know, plus I'm only challenging you because I don't know if you've really thought through every thing you believe, and I think the challenge will be healthy for both of us. I'll even submit that if you're right, your logic will prove sound and truthful, and you'll have nothing to lose, right? wink You and I have different understandings of the Bible; you think it's a literal account of things that actually happened, and I think it's a collection of subtext-heavy Aesop's fables. That doesn't make me ignorant of what's actually in it, I'm not arguing for or against it, and I don't appreciate your condescending attitude towards my opinions; it's why I often choose to end these conversations early.
I think you and I also have a different understanding of love and truth; my truth is that whatever you think will manifest itself in your reality, and my love is a feeling, not a thought. That pull in your stomach when you're excited, or exultant, or otherwise deeply positively moved; that is love. Going by these definitions, I see no contradictions; everyone loves to do things that are pleasurable to them, and therefore we all have a common understanding of what brings out the feeling we love -- we all know what feels good to us as individuals.
As for justification, while I think I have a decent understanding of it, I am actually not a supporter of it. At all. But let's have a look at those actions and see how justification played a role in them. I don't know what Hitler's motives were because I'm not Hitler, but I know he didn't kill those Jews alone; he convinced the German people that they were to blame for Germany's suffering. He justified the act of killing millions of people to a population that would otherwise have been adverse to it, because he found a way to suggest that these people deserved to be punished. (Also, you just invoked Godwin's law.) I'm not a rapist either, but rape is usually about power. I could speculate about the frustration about feeling powerless about their life and the need to feel like they're in control of something, but again, I can't see inside anyone's head but my own. (inb4 "rape is never justified"; I don't agree with rape either and I'm not trying to make excuses for it, but it's not like people just go "hey I think I'm going to rape somebody today, just for the hell of it.") As for the guy who cheats on his wife, let's not go there; I think the whole idea of monogamy is absurd, and that conversation is best saved for another day.
And one person can't change everyone because it's not their place to; everyone has the right to think and do what they want. That's why I believe we are here; to create our own realities and contrast them with the realities of others. You can't know happy without sad, nor light without dark, nor rich without poor. Trying to convert everything to one collective sameness would be robbing us of our right to choose. It's not fair for one person to get to choose what everyone gets; the best one person can do is choose what they get. Gaia would be awfully boring if everyone had the same avatar, just like life would be awfully boring if everyone did the same thing.
I am not interested in your challenges. As intrigued as I am by discussing different beliefs, I am not interested in being 'right' or trying to get you to 'submit' to my point. This is a conversation, not an intellectual war; neither of us have anything to 'lose' from discussing our differences. But as long as one of us is trying to 'win', I doubt we will have anything to gain from it either.
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:51 am
Medeus 1. You say that we all have our own realities, that life is up to the creator, and We are the creators. 2. you also said that God is love, and love is in all of us. If love is in all of us, than all of us are responsible for applying it, and that means we all have a common understanding of what love is, and if Love is the standard, than Love is Truth, and the two are synonymous. 3. You seem to be an expert on Justification. How do you justify the acts BAD PEOPLE. Because all of those things are realities, aren't they? If we all have our own individual reality, it's pretty incredible how two opposing realities can influence each other, isn't it? If we all have our own realities, why isn't any single human capable of changing it all for the better? hmm, there is a lot here that interests me, so i'd like to jump in. 1. personally, i agree with this statement, we all have our own 'mental pictures' of whats going on. for instance, I live stress free (almost always), but if you were me, maybe you would be stressed about some of my problems. does that make my life more or less stressful than yours? Nope. There a single universe we all live in, i think so, things that happen really do happen, but we look at them differently. I really did have an 8 page thesis paper, but once we get down to opinions, that paper can be observed differently. It takes your whole life's experience to look at each 'thing' you are presented with, and to judge that accordingly. 2. I'm not going to argue god, or what it is, or anything like that. I will say though that you jump in assumptions SIGNIFICANTLY here. This does in no way mean we all know what love is. hell i think that's one of the easiest things to disprove available, look at all this divorce bro. If nothing else that should tell you that even if we are in gods image of love or what have you, that certainly a great deal of people aren't tapping into it, or understanding it, for whatever the reason. 3. how can you justify the actions of a bad person? simply enough they probably didnt think it was all that big a deal. is that twisted. in some cases definitely, in other cases, maybe not so much. Is that serial killer a nutjob? you bet. is that theif? depends. no one's argueing that there are different realities going down here, i think you're mixing fact with opinion in this case. I totally support the belief that you can make your life what you will. You dont need a god, or anyone but yourself to do that. but if 'yourself' really beleives in god, then your going to be able to back it up, and you're going to know it's the truth, because that's how you live. I've got my own religion going down for about two years now. I wish for one thing on the full moon, and I haven't been disappointed yet. That's the way i see it, and it's just as valid as a major religion, or the belief in nothing at all. sweatdrop sorry for jumping in on a conversation, but this was really interesting. ignore if you just want to continue on
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:08 am
Decavolty Carchar-odin Man, I hate it when you guys get into these types of conversations. I don't think about this s**t often. Drives me insane. I would advise you both to continue not thinking about it as often as you can. It hasn't done me any favors. xd
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problematic briefcase Crew
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:16 am
You know, I have a horrible sense of right and wrong, but I can't belive in a moral gray line without the good and evil ends. I can see the gray; justification, bad deeds/'good' reason or good deeds/bad reason. But for gray, there must be white and black. Good deeds either because, why not I like it, and evil/bad because, why not I like it.
That's actually kind of confusing me.
tl;dr I see justification as a gray area on a moral scale. The middle so to speak.
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:28 am
Shiny Gligar You know, I have a horrible sense of right and wrong, but I can't belive in a moral gray line without the good and evil ends. I can see the gray; justification, bad deeds/'good' reason or good deeds/bad reason. But for gray, there must be white and black. Good deeds either because, why not I like it, and evil/bad because, why not I like it. That's actually kind of confusing me. tl;dr I see justification as a gray area on a moral scale. The middle so to speak. Just out of curiosity, why do you think you have a horrible sense of right and wrong?
And on that note, if 'why not I like it' is the motivation for both 'good' and 'bad' deeds, what is it that makes them 'good' or 'bad' in your opinion?
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:43 am
Cabron LaSwan
Decavolty Carchar-odin Man, I hate it when you guys get into these types of conversations. I don't think about this s**t often. Drives me insane. I would advise you both to continue not thinking about it as often as you can. It hasn't done me any favors. xd Seriously though, there's things you just don't need to think about. You do things the way you do them and believe what you believe because you do so. It proves you're human, and talking about those things serves no other purpose.
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