Welcome to Gaia! ::

Not really. :/ I am right handed, but I've been known to use my left hand for various things--including swiping credit cards and bowling. Also, scanning a microchip sounds like a totally different thing than swiping a credit card. I don't think it would matter which hand it's put in when it comes to convenience sake. Besides, what about everyone who is left handed? Are they magically safe from the mark since they'd be more likely to want it on their left hand? For so called convenience's sake?


No, because I was a preterist when I was a Christian. My points about Revelation have nothing to do with my belief in God or lack thereof. This is about a text and how that text was meant to be interpreted. Go talk to any Christian who doesn't buy into this dispensationalist nonsense--they'll tell you the same thing I am.

Also, define spiritual stand point.


I can't see how a chip (basically a credit card) would not also be obsolete once cash fails. Gold is the way to go, kiddo.


What faith? I'm not currently a believer in any faith.


Are we talking about a Canaanite god? Or a demon in Catholic theology? Either way... y'know. Atheist. I'm not big on any god or the creatures they supposedly created.


Disagreement with your dispensationalist nonsense doesn't mean I'm not interested in truth. It simply means I think your nineteenth century heresy is FALSE.


Never claimed to be led by the spirit. Do you? If so, you may wish to check your own behavior before condemning others, sweetie.


No. I'm a person interested in facts. Your own religion rejects dispensationalism as a heresy, and yet you assume it's true. Where is the microchip in Revelation, dear heart? Where's the Antichrist? The rebuilt temple? You've IMPOSED such things onto the text. The heavily SYMBOLIC text which uses SYMBOLISM common to Hebrew apocalypse authors. All this nonsense you say about literalism is a lie--you don't take the text literally. Or do you think stars will LITERALLY fall to earth? rolleyes


I came in with the point that Revelation was written for first century readers about first century events. I've also pointed out that your heresy didn't exist until the nineteenth century. I also proved that Revelation is not only symbolic in nature, but that even you so called "literalists" interpret it symbolically (just in a way that it was never meant to be interpreted).


I was responding to points your Captain made, dear.


Actually, by engaging in this argument you ARE making claims. You stated that prophecy had "two sides," both literal and symbolic. I see the symbolism. You have yet to show me anything literal.


So, you're here to accuse me of worshiping Ba'al? No one argues without the intent to persuade, so please don't be so disingenuous.


As DysFUNKtional Duck already pointed out, I'm not arguing about the existence or non-existence of god(s). This has nothing to do with atheism or theism. We're talking about a specific text and whether or not its prophecies have anything to do with the twenty-first century. Most Christians would agree with me. You're in a tiny, arrogant minority that assumes the rest of Christianity (with the possible exception of Catholics since you guys tend to consistently equate Catholicism with the Whore of Babylon for some odd reason) agrees with them.


All other interpretations? Kiddo, I've only addressed the dispensationalist interpretation. And I've seen your so called "proof." Generally it consists of, "Wars are happening--therefore Revelation is coming true!" Or "Israel is now a nation, therefore Revelation is coming true!" Or "Products have bar codes--that's the mark of the beast!" Meanwhile, the sane people of Christendom go about their religion without constantly trying to figure out who the Antichrist is.


Except your own interpretation and claims discredit themselves. You claim Revelation is literal, and yet you interpret it symbolically--you're not consistent, therefore, you're not correct.


Yep, most do--but they're not the people of your ilk. Most Christians fall somewhere within preterism and they see Revelation's prophecies in a very different light. You, on the other hand, are very insistent on your nineteenth century heresy for some reason.


Show me something literal. Come on, kiddo. I'm waiting.


Actually, I think prophecy is pretty goddamn black and white. Either it's one interpretation or it's another--you can't have it both ways. Likewise, you can't say something is literal while you consistently interpret it in a figurative, symbolic way.


The fact that it's laughable? That you have no idea what the author of Revelation was talking about when he referenced a mark? What about the Seal of God--also mentioned in Revelation? Do you think people will literally be marked by God? Is that also a computer chip? If not, why not? Why choose to interpret one as spiritual and the other as physical?


It would only become fundamentally evil if it was forced on people. I don't see that happening.

The card reader is made so you use your right hand.
The number 666 is literal and those with wisdom and understanding know what it is.

The future economy will be paperless. Want to carry gold around? A chip is going to be the only way. Just like it's illegal for you to not have an ID. The chip will have all your information. It will be forced on people.
As for left handed people once again they still have to swipe a credit card with their right hand because it's placed that way. I've personally realized this being around left handed people. They still use their right hand. All they'd have to do is place a reader on the right side and say it needs to be on your right.

I'm just glad that I'll be able to live the majority of my life before I have to go completely off-grid, when this happens.

No problem. C:


I get what you mean, but in a sense I feel it's a valid point to make here since we're dealing with the Christian religion. Dispensationalism is a minority view, and yet its followers make the assumption that it's not only held by most other Protestants, but that it's been taught since the first century church. Pointing out that mainstream Christianity doesn't buy into this crap doesn't make mainstream Christianity's interpretation anymore correct, but it does and should cause one to wonder where Dispensationalism came from and why the majority of one's own religion doesn't buy into it. If that makes sense.


Uh, yeah. I realize. It's made so it's easier to use your right hand, but when said right hand is currently busy juggling one's purse or keeping a screaming child in check, you learn to adapt.


You have got to be kidding me. This is your grand "literal" point? The number is literal? Sure, it's literally a number, but then again, "mark" is literally a word. Also, notice how Revelation literally says the mark will be placed ON the hand or forehead--not IN. And yet you disregard your own desire for literalism, and you assume that "mark" actually means "chip." You poor dear. It must be confusing.


If money fails, the credit cards fail right along side it. So would the chip. Sure, a chip would be more convenient (as opposed to carrying around gold), but if you pay attention to the way our economy is going (and various other economies in other countries), I just don't see how what amounts to nothing more than a glorified credit card would be practical.


See, the idea that everyone should carry an ID makes sense for real, practical reasons. In what way would forcing people to implant something into themselves (and thus, perhaps, violate their religion--which goes against so much of our constitution, I cannot even begin) ever be practical? It makes no sense. Having to carry an ID (which really only matters if you plan on doing something where someone would find out you didn't have one with you) is not at all comparable to the forced implantation of a microchip.


Have you ever tried swiping with your left? It really isn't that hard.


My grandmother doesn't. My guess is it depends on the person.


But doesn't Revelation also say the forehead is an option? So, are people supposed to swipe their heads under these things? Come on. Let's be rational here.

Also, you still haven't addressed the majority of my points. For example, how does it feel, following a nineteenth century heresy that none of the early church leaders ever taught? Is it fun?

Awesome! If I ever get a hold of a commune you're more then welcome to join. ^^

Actually I'm their worse nightmare because I use the bible for what it is. The forehead wouldn't be a problem either. Such as tracking devices. Or even inmates would probably get it in their head.
And the constitution will pretty much be null and void soon enough. So there goes your freedoms. Not to mention the whole conspiracy thing we believe in for the most part the NWO. One world government, one world religion, one world currency (Most likely digital thus the need for the chips). It all falls into place for our prophecies.

The only reason we would be heritics was because we didn't bow to the congregation (Which is not the CHURCH!) We followed the scriptures put forth and not the doctrine of the congregations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vd47OxNQjA

Just because I feel like annoying you. ^^

*Should I start spamming this thread with all the fun studies and interpretations?*

I'm flattered, but I think if I was ever to be in a commune, it would be one that I'd start myself.