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Dreadful

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:16 am


bloody_rose_of_luna
can someone please translate this foe me? it is very important to me.

私はあなたを逃すと私は再びお会いしたいと考えて


watashi wa anata o nogasu to, watashi wa futatabi o-aishitai to kangaete.

If I miss you, I will think about seeing you again. The grammar just doesn't sound correct to me though, I think there is prolly a better way to phrase it. "nogasu" itself is particularly out of place, it's a literal miss. sweatdrop

Edit: I came back to this and this is how I would say that with a poetic and familiar usage (it sounds like that for me):

watashi wa kimi ga inakute, sabishii dayo. futatabi o-aishitai to kangaeteru.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:36 pm


Because I do want this thing used from time to time, I'd like to ask something that's been on my mind ever since I started Japanese...

Just how many uses do the particles "ni" and "de" have? And if anyone would be kind enough, could you present some sample sentences for each use?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:31 am


Koiyuki
Because I do want this thing used from time to time, I'd like to ask something that's been on my mind ever since I started Japanese...

Just how many uses do the particles "ni" and "de" have? And if anyone would be kind enough, could you present some sample sentences for each use?


I'll be willing to see what I can do with what I know (and I happen to also have a Kodansha's Particle Dictionary with me, so if there's more uses I don't know of and such, I can also express them. If I can't create an example of my own, I may use the particle dictionary's example.

---------------------
Particles in Japanese (called Joshi or 助詞) are the fundamentals of grammar in Japanese and probably the hardest for foreigners to grasp and understand (outside of kanji, that is. xD). Probably the most confused particles (in my opinion) are ni and de because in typical daily usage in Japanese they translate usually to "at, in, or on" in English. It's pretty simple when starting to learn Japanese is easily interchange these particles when in fact most of the time cannot be interchanged (but, ni and he for example, more or less can interchange). Surprisingly the reverse is true, for the Japanese, when to use "at, on, and in" in English is very difficult.

Let me start off with de.

1. The major usage of de is when you do an action at a place. Basically, when you do something at a place, you use de. For more advanced students, chances are when using a ~teiru (~ている) (~ing) form of the verb, if you mention the place you're doing said action, chances are you use de after the place.

Examples:

Gakkou de benkyousuru (学校で勉強する)。

I study at school/I will study at school.

Toshokan de hon wo yomimashita. (図書館で本を読みました。)

I read a book at the library.

Arubaito de souji wo shiteimasu (アルバイトで掃除をしています。)

I am cleaning at my part-time job.

2. A second form usage of de is explained a little bit harder in the dictionary, but the short simple explanation given is easier to understand.

Basically, when having a list of things to choose from, you use this form. In English, it translates roughly as "in" or "among" depending on whatever you feel like translating it as into English.

kurasu no naka de miyagi-san wa ichiban hayaku hashirimasu. (クラスの中で、宮城さんは一番早く走ります。)

Ms. Miyagi is the fastest runner in our class.

Sekai no naka de, jinkou wa doko ga ichiban ookii desu ka? (世界の中で、人口が一番大きいですか?)

In the world, which country has the most population? (granted this translation, the word for country is not present in Japanese, but for the closest meaning in English this sentence has, it is okay I think)

Another pair of usages is with time and numbers.

3. For example one usage indicates age of person at the time of something happening. In this usage, in translates to usually "at".

Kare wa rokujyuusai de taishokushita. (彼は六十歳で退職した。)
He retired at the age of sixty.

Musuko wa jyuuhassai de nakunatteshimatta. (息子は十八歳で亡くなってしまった。)
My son died at the age of eighteen.

4. Another usage is when something occurs in a certain amount of time or when there's a time limit given in a situation. During this time, it's translated usually as "in (an amount of time)".

Kono shigoto ha nijyuubun de dekimasu ka? (この仕事は二十分で出来ますか?)
Can you do this job in twenty minutes?

5. A very important usage (as much as #1 on this list, as it's frequently used in Japanese) is when talking about how one does something or by what means someone does something.

Basically, when you do something by using something, you use de. It usually translates as "by" in English, though "with" and other translations are possible.

Watashi wa gakkou ni densha de kimashita. (私は学校に電車で来ました。)
I came to school by train.

hashi de sushi wo tabemashita. (はしで寿司を食べました。)

I ate sushi with chopsticks.

(I will continue to this later and also work on ni as well. Please be patient.)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:31 am


When do you use desu and when do you deshita, or masu vs mashita? I mean, I've heard "sumimasen" and "sumimasen deshita", and "arigatou gozaimasu" and "arigatou gozaimashita", but I don't know when to use one or the other.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:22 pm


CC Kinomoto Sakura
When do you use desu and when do you deshita, or masu vs mashita? I mean, I've heard "sumimasen" and "sumimasen deshita", and "arigatou gozaimasu" and "arigatou gozaimashita", but I don't know when to use one or the other.


Desu and Masu are the present tense form of the verb whilst deshita and mashita are the past tense form of the verb.

Compare:

Watashi wa neko ga suki desu. I like cats.

Watashi wa neko ga suki deshita. I liked cats.

Pan wo tabemasu. I eat bread.

Pan wo tabemashita. I ate bread.

Sumimasen and Arigatou Gozaimasu are special exceptions. I have never heard of Sumimasendeshita used (probably learned it a long time before, but forgot because I don't consider the polite forms very important in my opinion, but don't do as I do. XD), but there is a difference when to use Arigatou Gozaimasu and Arigatou Gozaimashita. When someone is going to do something for you or is doing something for you, you use the present tense or arigatou gozaimasu . When that thing someone did for you is finished, you can use the past tense or arigatou gozaimashita. I am sure that Sumimasen follows the same pattern (when inconveniencing someone or such you use the present tense, and after leaving a said place you would use the past tense).
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:43 pm


I have a grammar question... I'm fairly new to nihongo, and my school is ghetto, so they don't have a class... I really wanna take it in college though...

but anyway.. if I wanted to say something like "he gave his cat..." I'm confused on how to start it. I pretty much suck at grammar.
So would I say "kare wa(?) kare no neko ga ataemashita?"
because that seems a bit repetitive...
And I'm not sure which particles to put in between...

Oh, and here's another one of those kinda things... "she loved her computer..."
would you say "karojo wa(?) karojo no konpyuta ga ai-shite imashita"

question

The Azure Quincy


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:08 pm


IdiotbyDefault
Koiyuki
Because I do want this thing used from time to time, I'd like to ask something that's been on my mind ever since I started Japanese...

Just how many uses do the particles "ni" and "de" have? And if anyone would be kind enough, could you present some sample sentences for each use?


I'll be willing to see what I can do with what I know (and I happen to also have a Kodansha's Particle Dictionary with me, so if there's more uses I don't know of and such, I can also express them. If I can't create an example of my own, I may use the particle dictionary's example.

---------------------
*lesson*
That was quite a refresher. Would you mind finishing up the lesson, as well as cover their adjective uses(IE the difference between hontou de and hontou ni)? In addition, when should one become familiar with the different Kanji compounds? Specifically Yutou-yomi and Juubako-yomi
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:00 pm


URGENT TRANSLATION NEEDED.

Cutting right to the chase here, I need this phrase translated IMMEDIATELY.

"omae wa

sou made sh*te

oira wo

tamesh*tai no ka"

Or, if you'd like to see the characters...
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2040/finalad02.jpg

What's circled in red, of course. Thank you for your help. :3

The Mighty Charn


Koiyuki
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:38 pm


If I may use this is bring attention to something, for anyone learning Japanese there are many things you don't learn about for a good while, specially Kanji radicals and compounds. An excellent chunk of TV knowledge I've been watching is the Kanji-chau!? segments of JATV. The lessons from last year are available online, so get it while the gettin's good:
http://www.jatv.net/news/Program-jatvnews2.html

Also be sure to peruse the other fine programming. It's educational and informative stuff, to be sure
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:04 pm


待ちに待つてなかった新生活が始まる。

OR

待ちに待ってなかった新生活が始まる。

Does anyone know what the following sentences mean? XD;; There are two versions because I'm not sure if the "tsu" is a small one or not. I can't figure out by looking at the manga. It looks big to me! But either way neither makes sense to me. sweatdrop

I'm having big problems understanding it T.T

Retasu


Koiyuki
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:47 am


Retasu
待ちに待つてなかった新生活が始まる。

OR

待ちに待ってなかった新生活が始まる。

Does anyone know what the following sentences mean? XD;; There are two versions because I'm not sure if the "tsu" is a small one or not. I can't figure out by looking at the manga. It looks big to me! But either way neither makes sense to me. sweatdrop

I'm having big problems understanding it T.T


My best take on it?

待ちに待つてなかった新生活が始まる
"I didn't wait and sit and wait on beginning a new life"
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:12 pm


I posted on a Japanese language forum as well and they told me that it was 待ちに待ってなかった...<< which translates to The new life which I have not been looking forward to (lit.not been waiting for). The phrase 待ちに待つ is common but the negation of it is not...so in this case, it must be some form of humour, said the person who replied. ^^

Thanks Koyuki for the help though! It was a good try! heart

Retasu


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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 10:39 pm


Retasu
I posted on a Japanese language forum as well and they told me that it was 待ちに待ってなかった...<< which translates to The new life which I have not been looking forward to (lit.not been waiting for). The phrase 待ちに待つ is common but the negation of it is not...so in this case, it must be some form of humour, said the person who replied. ^^

Thanks Koyuki for the help though! It was a good try! heart


According to the dictionary I have, whenever you have (verb stem) + ni + (regular dictionary form verb) with both verbs being the same verb, it's supposed to intensify the activity mentioned.

Ex: Sono shirase wo kiite, kanojo wa naki ni naita. (その知らせを聞いて、彼女は泣きに泣いた。)

Hearing the news, she just cried and cried.

待ちに待つ is a phrase equivalent to "looking forward to". The phrase was negated therefore "not looking forward to" would be appropriate.

I will continue the particle lessons once I have some spare time. Just got my IME back in working order.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:39 am


roku-kun1
I was wondering. I am going to japan for vacation. I plan to go see my friend there. She speaks Japanese. I was wondering if it would be appropriate to learn like a list-full of japanese slang. I know that she's not the polite kind of person, and she speaks slang * I cannot understand her when she speaks slang * so if anyone is willing to teach me, I am glad to learn.


To answer your question from the original thread directly slang can be useful when used in the proper context. If it interests you that much you should have your friend teach you about the different kinds of slang words they use, since if you're looking at about 3 different kinds. There's KY-style slang where they compress phrases from the first letters of each word's romaji reading(IE KY(kuuki o yomanai), IW(Imi wakanai), MK5(maji de kireru go byou mae), etc), the kind used by the Yakuza and other thuggish people(which often times involves flipping the way words are read, like when kona[flour, in this case a cover word for heroin] become nako and tane[seed, also another cover word for heroin]becomes neta) and the kinds used by the general populous at large(such as using different fruits and veggies to describe the size, length and shape of a man's banana).

roku-kun1
is it possible to have two verbs in one sentence? If so, please give examples.


If the verbs are linked using the te form, then yes.

piza o tabete, ongaku o kiite HALO 3 o asobimasu
(I eat pizza, listen to music and play Halo 3)

roku-kun1
I have a major issue with verb forms. For example the teru that comes after 知ってる。Also, the ranai that goes after わからない。Can anyone help me understand these verb forms? wait. i forgot one. the temo form that, for example, comes after 知っても。thanks!おおきに!ありがとう!


The first one is a colloquial version of the te form+iru construct, second is negative plain form and for the third, in the context you're speaking of it has two uses. The first one is paired with intereogative words and portray the feel of "no matter what/why/how (x)" Let's use the verb you presented as an example:

いくら知っても、 絶対修学をやめない
"No matter how much you know, never stop learning"

The second usage emphasizes limits, like the most you can do something, be some place, etc.

私の日本語はひどくてもです。
(My Japanese is terrible, at best)

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