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 Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:29 pm
Josh would love some of CS Lewis's writings... but only particular parts.
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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:04 pm
Joshua_Ritter DrasBrisingr Joshua_Ritter I believe in good and evil. I know there is *some* sort of moral standard out there that prevents Hitler from being great and eating babies to being the new thing. I've met people, who didn't come out and say it, but I could tell they were subconciously thinking "People who use the idea of good and evil for their own benifit are evil." And it's a bit funny to me. I do think people make moral judgements about things. This whole idea goes back to the problem I've been having about total subjectivity and total objectivity, and how when I think about it, neither can be right. But I can't figure out what the hell else it could be.
My current idea, and this would apply to good and evil, is that there is such a thing, there is an objective standard, only it is infinitely malleable. My point is that Hitler probably didn't think he was evil. I mean, to some extent, he had to know that massacreing thousands upon thousands of people was a bad thing, but ultimately wasn't he trying to reach a "good" goal (at least good in his eyes)? I'm not saying Hitler was a saint; I'm just trying to further my point. There is no set standard. If there was, we wouldn't need a courts system. And like I said before, you could set the standard at "intentionally hurting another", but what does that include? If a mother yells at her child for doing...I don't know...being too loud in a store, and the child cries, does that make her evil? If a woman is being raped, and shoots her rapist, is she evil? Yes, it was self-defense, but it was intentional, was it not? There is no definition. No dividing line. DRASSS! I AM YOUR FATHER!!!!!!! (please scream NOOOOOOO!!!! right about now. thank you)
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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:05 pm
Khalida Nyoka Josh would love some of CS Lewis's writings... but only particular parts.
Oh, and Narnia was good too.
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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:07 pm
Joshua_Ritter Khalida Nyoka Josh would love some of CS Lewis's writings... but only particular parts.
Oh, and Narnia was good too.the seventh book in particular gets way surreal.
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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:17 pm
DrasBrisingr Joshua_Ritter DrasBrisingr Joshua_Ritter I believe in good and evil. I know there is *some* sort of moral standard out there that prevents Hitler from being great and eating babies to being the new thing. I've met people, who didn't come out and say it, but I could tell they were subconciously thinking "People who use the idea of good and evil for their own benifit are evil." And it's a bit funny to me. I do think people make moral judgements about things. This whole idea goes back to the problem I've been having about total subjectivity and total objectivity, and how when I think about it, neither can be right. But I can't figure out what the hell else it could be.
My current idea, and this would apply to good and evil, is that there is such a thing, there is an objective standard, only it is infinitely malleable. My point is that Hitler probably didn't think he was evil. I mean, to some extent, he had to know that massacreing thousands upon thousands of people was a bad thing, but ultimately wasn't he trying to reach a "good" goal (at least good in his eyes)? I'm not saying Hitler was a saint; I'm just trying to further my point. There is no set standard. If there was, we wouldn't need a courts system. And like I said before, you could set the standard at "intentionally hurting another", but what does that include? If a mother yells at her child for doing...I don't know...being too loud in a store, and the child cries, does that make her evil? If a woman is being raped, and shoots her rapist, is she evil? Yes, it was self-defense, but it was intentional, was it not? There is no definition. No dividing line. DRASSS! I AM YOUR FATHER!!!!!!! (please scream NOOOOOOO!!!! right about now. thank you)
Archaphro, you are a silly one.
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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Joshua_Ritter DrasBrisingr Joshua_Ritter DrasBrisingr Joshua_Ritter I believe in good and evil. I know there is *some* sort of moral standard out there that prevents Hitler from being great and eating babies to being the new thing. I've met people, who didn't come out and say it, but I could tell they were subconciously thinking "People who use the idea of good and evil for their own benifit are evil." And it's a bit funny to me. I do think people make moral judgements about things. This whole idea goes back to the problem I've been having about total subjectivity and total objectivity, and how when I think about it, neither can be right. But I can't figure out what the hell else it could be.
My current idea, and this would apply to good and evil, is that there is such a thing, there is an objective standard, only it is infinitely malleable. My point is that Hitler probably didn't think he was evil. I mean, to some extent, he had to know that massacreing thousands upon thousands of people was a bad thing, but ultimately wasn't he trying to reach a "good" goal (at least good in his eyes)? I'm not saying Hitler was a saint; I'm just trying to further my point. There is no set standard. If there was, we wouldn't need a courts system. And like I said before, you could set the standard at "intentionally hurting another", but what does that include? If a mother yells at her child for doing...I don't know...being too loud in a store, and the child cries, does that make her evil? If a woman is being raped, and shoots her rapist, is she evil? Yes, it was self-defense, but it was intentional, was it not? There is no definition. No dividing line. DRASSS! I AM YOUR FATHER!!!!!!! (please scream NOOOOOOO!!!! right about now. thank you)
Archaphro, you are a silly one.Meh, I got bored and thought it would be fun to harmlessly post stalk Dras. Though she mmay take the next chance she has to eat me, but that's a risk i'm willing to take. Hey hey let's go kenka suru!
Taisetsu na mono protect my balls!
Boku ga warui so let's fighting...
Let's fighting love!
Let's fighting love!
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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:19 pm
Archaphro Joshua_Ritter DrasBrisingr Joshua_Ritter DrasBrisingr Joshua_Ritter I believe in good and evil. I know there is *some* sort of moral standard out there that prevents Hitler from being great and eating babies to being the new thing. I've met people, who didn't come out and say it, but I could tell they were subconciously thinking "People who use the idea of good and evil for their own benifit are evil." And it's a bit funny to me. I do think people make moral judgements about things. This whole idea goes back to the problem I've been having about total subjectivity and total objectivity, and how when I think about it, neither can be right. But I can't figure out what the hell else it could be.
My current idea, and this would apply to good and evil, is that there is such a thing, there is an objective standard, only it is infinitely malleable. My point is that Hitler probably didn't think he was evil. I mean, to some extent, he had to know that massacreing thousands upon thousands of people was a bad thing, but ultimately wasn't he trying to reach a "good" goal (at least good in his eyes)? I'm not saying Hitler was a saint; I'm just trying to further my point. There is no set standard. If there was, we wouldn't need a courts system. And like I said before, you could set the standard at "intentionally hurting another", but what does that include? If a mother yells at her child for doing...I don't know...being too loud in a store, and the child cries, does that make her evil? If a woman is being raped, and shoots her rapist, is she evil? Yes, it was self-defense, but it was intentional, was it not? There is no definition. No dividing line. DRASSS! I AM YOUR FATHER!!!!!!! (please scream NOOOOOOO!!!! right about now. thank you)
Archaphro, you are a silly one.Meh, I got bored and thought it would be fun to harmlessly post stalk Dras. Though she mmay take the next chance she has to eat me, but that's a risk i'm willing to take.
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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:20 pm
Joshua_Ritter Archaphro Joshua_Ritter DrasBrisingr Joshua_Ritter I understand that, I'm just saying I think there is some sort of standard, because we seem to base things on something. You won't see pro and anti murder debates trying to pass or repeal laws against murder. I think even rapists dont entertain dreams of rape being accepted. Without some sort of standard, we have no way to judge anything. There is no set standard. If there was, we wouldn't need a courts system. And like I said before, you could set the standard at "intentionally hurting another", but what does that include? If a mother yells at her child for doing...I don't know...being too loud in a store, and the child cries, does that make her evil? If a woman is being raped, and shoots her rapist, is she evil? Yes, it was self-defense, but it was intentional, was it not? There is no definition. No dividing line. DRASSS! I AM YOUR FATHER!!!!!!! (please scream NOOOOOOO!!!! right about now. thank you)
Archaphro, you are a silly one.Meh, I got bored and thought it would be fun to harmlessly post stalk Dras. Though she mmay take the next chance she has to eat me, but that's a risk i'm willing to take. or worse, habanero sauce!!!!! twisted
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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:35 pm
Archaphro Joshua_Ritter Archaphro Joshua_Ritter DrasBrisingr Joshua_Ritter I understand that, I'm just saying I think there is some sort of standard, because we seem to base things on something. You won't see pro and anti murder debates trying to pass or repeal laws against murder. I think even rapists dont entertain dreams of rape being accepted. Without some sort of standard, we have no way to judge anything. There is no set standard. If there was, we wouldn't need a courts system. And like I said before, you could set the standard at "intentionally hurting another", but what does that include? If a mother yells at her child for doing...I don't know...being too loud in a store, and the child cries, does that make her evil? If a woman is being raped, and shoots her rapist, is she evil? Yes, it was self-defense, but it was intentional, was it not? There is no definition. No dividing line. DRASSS! I AM YOUR FATHER!!!!!!! (please scream NOOOOOOO!!!! right about now. thank you)
Archaphro, you are a silly one.Meh, I got bored and thought it would be fun to harmlessly post stalk Dras. Though she mmay take the next chance she has to eat me, but that's a risk i'm willing to take. or worse, habanero sauce!!!!! twisted I'd rather enjoy that, actually.
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:49 am
Back to the topic at hand.
Hitler is a pretty good example, but suicide bombers are a better example. What is their justification? Because their scripture says to proselytize by the sword. That if non-believers do not convert on their own, Muslims are to make war and kill or "convert" everyone they come across. This is not, to me, a moral good. What is their goal? The redemption of mankind through their way of thinking? A noble goal, to be sure, but at what cost? Tell me, does anyone else's moral compass go all wonky thinking about that?
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:19 pm
Laren Back to the topic at hand. Hitler is a pretty good example, but suicide bombers are a better example. What is their justification? Because their scripture says to proselytize by the sword. That if non-believers do not convert on their own, Muslims are to make war and kill or "convert" everyone they come across. This is not, to me, a moral good. What is their goal? The redemption of mankind through their way of thinking? A noble goal, to be sure, but at what cost? Tell me, does anyone else's moral compass go all wonky thinking about that? Exactly what I've been trying to say. "God told me to do it" has been an unacceptable excuse for homicide for a while now, but not really all that long. Salem witch trials, anyone? Death of thousands of "witches" because it was against God's law? And that was what, a few hundred years ago? Maybe that'll hit a little closer to home than suicide bombers. There are no standards for good and evil. There just aren't. You may not care what a suicide bomber thinks now, but I think if you had one standing over you with a little red button in his hand, you'd listen. They are doing the work of God. Maybe not your God, but their God. And at the end of the day, it dosen't really matter if there is a "God" at all.
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:04 pm
To me good and evil has nothing to do with point of view its positive and negative reactions from actions done by things.
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:20 pm
FLCL: Please extrapolate, as I have no idea what you're trying to say.
Dras: If a suicide bomber was standing over me with a little red button, I'd like to think that I'd kick him in the jimmies before going to meet my maker. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that logistically.
The witch trials were rarely fueled by "godly" notions. Most occured as a result of property or financial disputes.
As for no standards for good and evil, I think there are a few that pretty much everyone can understand: don't kill, don't rape, don't steal. Even Muslim fundamentalists follow them to a degree, they just don't think the rest of us are worth treating like humans.
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Laren FLCL: Please extrapolate, as I have no idea what you're trying to say. Dras: If a suicide bomber was standing over me with a little red button, I'd like to think that I'd kick him in the jimmies before going to meet my maker. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that logistically. The witch trials were rarely fueled by "godly" notions. Most occured as a result of property or financial disputes. As for no standards for good and evil, I think there are a few that pretty much everyone can understand: don't kill, don't rape, don't steal. Even Muslim fundamentalists follow them to a degree, they just don't think the rest of us are worth treating like humans. Avoid hast generalizations, por favor. I have quite a few muslim friends...
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Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:30 pm
Laren FLCL: Please extrapolate, as I have no idea what you're trying to say. Dras: If a suicide bomber was standing over me with a little red button, I'd like to think that I'd kick him in the jimmies before going to meet my maker. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that logistically. The witch trials were rarely fueled by "godly" notions. Most occured as a result of property or financial disputes. As for no standards for good and evil, I think there are a few that pretty much everyone can understand: don't kill, don't rape, don't steal. Even Muslim fundamentalists follow them to a degree, they just don't think the rest of us are worth treating like humans. Wait, you're evil if you steal? If you're starving to death, you see a man in a suit and tie carrying a Big Mac, and you steal the burger and run off, you're evil? And killing? What about self-defense? What about accidental death? What about warfare? What about the death penalty? There are many loopholes and exceptions to everything. But I don't agree at all with your definitions of "evil".
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