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That's again lust hun. Satan makes people think they'd go crazy if they didn't. Which also plays into lust. It's a vicious thing to fight but people can live without masturbating.

I think you "desire" someone you are married to, and there is nothing wrong with that.


but it seems to me that lust is one of those sins that people commit constantly. sometimes people do it without even noticing or realizing, because it's part of many cultures. But once people recognize it then they should refrian from it and pray that God gives them the strength to not fall into temptation.

hmm... my personal opinion is whether or not someone does this is their own personal business... and that the church body doesn't need to make them bear a scarlet letter because of it...

it is also my opinion that people of our day and age go crazy and like to overly exaggerate the signifcance of sins and.. things not quite sins but still possibly thigns that "do so easily beset us" in our walk with christ... but, i feel today's church gets really hung up on those things when they have to do with sex or sensuality at all... i mean.. if somoene lies.. oh it's wrong. but, people don't go on and on and on... about how you're going to hell if you tell even a little white lie.. but oh.. you touch yourself.. omg... you need to be banned from all ministries... etc... at the end of the day, I feel all sin is sin... and i'm noone's "tax collector" when it comes to their sin. I have my own to be accounted for.. and i'm not going to bother someone else. Or... some people take the Lord's name in vain.. yet... it's treated as a lesser offence if someone hears about someone else being promiscuous when they haven't actually even had the sex.

also, people need to maybe redefine "lust". I mean... in the bible, it makes reference to "lust of the flesH", "lust of the eyes", and the "pride of life". so then... i think to just say "lust" is a bit broad.. i mean.. when you are speaking towards masturbation... to say that "lust" you feel... it's the same feelign you ahve when you are with your spouse.. so then is it wrong? no because your married.. but you can't just say all lust is bad.. then make double standards... just because you feel all hot and heavy doesn't make it lust... geez... lusting after something is like being envious of somethign someone else has.. lust is just this desire in your heart to have something... so.. forgive me for being blunt but.. lust for a guy when masturbating would be.... "desiring to touch a woman in a way not appropriate"... however, if he cannot help himself without those kind of thoughts, as that might be all they think about... if that's the case.. then i think the situation is not to address the masturbation... that is just a symptom.. if you only address the symptom you will not help the person suffering.. the person in question needs to go further and look at things like bringing all thoughts into the obedience of Christ... and "laying aside all weight and sin" that doth so easily beset us. But.. I would have to say.. the general feeling of being horny.... it is not a sin to "feel" that way. I mean.. at a certain point, your body is going to feel that way without any outside stimulation. It's just your body waking up and preparing itself to do what it was created for... It's priming itself for the time comes for it to be used in its appropriate and intended uses.

and.... i think it's good to remember we are all tempted in various areas. for some people, their sexuality/sensuality isn't a particularly troublesome area... and struggle more with maybe gossip or what have you... but, we are all tempted. and it's not a sin to be tempted... even christ was tempted in all points it's said. however, it's about how you manage that temptation. and Jesus didn't rebuke him right out. He brought up scripture... using the word of God as his defense.

And, also, people seem to like to act like ... don't ever mess up ever.. i mean.. God forbid any of us should be human and mess up.. so what. you mess up.. just be like david and humble yourself.... like how some smokers have to keep quitting... well.. sin is for people like cigarettes are for smokers... it isn't always as easy for people to rid it from their lives. the important thing is that you want to quit and are making the efforts... and, where your efforts fail.. then his grace will pick you up and help you until you're strong enough to do it yourself... that's why we have mercy and grace..... because noone is strong enough to overcome their flesh just by themselves....

and, i'm not saying to do things is ok.. i'm just saying what other people do is their own business... and i don't think every person needs to suffer a character assassination if it were found out one of them do something like that... people need to mind their own business and stop obsessing over just sexual sins...

Graceangel has a point when she says that matrubation is just a symptom of the problem. And I agree with the samurai that we need not to judge our brethren and sistren but to encourage them. Any struggle we face in life can not be accomplished alone, but if we look to God for guidance and strength He can deliever us from temptation.

I think one of the reasons I think it is a good idea to avoid masturbation is because it seems so easy to try to justify it - like it's one of those things my gut reaction just tells me is wrong, but I try to come up with excuses for why it isn't. Generally, when I begin to question something is right, and time/prayer hasn't changed that feeling, I start to think it probably is wrong. I dunno, that's just how I think.

but the bible was written in a time before the meanings fo some of our contemporary words were written.. and were most likely meant exactly what it said then...

but you know.. i personally tend to feel concerned about people who get too overly wrapped in "living by the rules" of it.. I mean.. should you? of course.. but the reasons why you do so are just as important as whether or not you live by them.. living by them because it's in your heart is really important. I mean.. look at pharissee's and sadduccess of Jesus' time.. those were religious leaders.. and as far as the "religious" aspect of things were concerned.. they did it all. they lived the law down the very letter; however, Jesus was not wanting any part of them because of it was all for show on the outside. I mean...christianity isn't supposed to be ran like a chatholic boarding school where they smack your knuckles with rulers if you even so much as move or make a half weird face...

and before Rockmanx gets all thinking i'm off point... for my personal view.. I am a strong supporter of the old law.. all of it including the laws of cleanliness and uncleanliness including not eating pork, etc... I am in no way saying the law is of no affect. It is.. however... every set of rules in life are placed there more in a way of guildelines to help people maintain both personal and a societal safeties... as well as preserving order and the way things need to be in a general sense. To this affect, I believe that when it comes down to how things happen on a per-person basis; things are weighed out a little differently.

but i'd like to remind everyone of a scripture that says to work out your own salvationbut with fear and trembling. Even jesus said, don't go to your brother and tell him he has a beam in his eye... pluck out first the beam in your own eye before you do that. and ya know.. for each of us, that beam might be a differnt one. just because one person's beam is masturbation or another transgression that is associated with a sexual nature doesn't make anyone else's beams of lesser significance... the only time a beam should be considered distinctly alarming from the rest is if it's an abomination... and there are a few passages in proverbs that go well into that... and some in leviticus too... I think the fact they are cited as abominations single them out... It would make sense to me that from the Lord's standpoint... if you smile in people's faces and talk about them behind their backs.. you are no better than your friend who pierces all their body and sleeps with a new person every week... because with him... it's all transgressions.. and it's all already paid for and covered on the cross.

Paul wrote that "all things are lawful to me; yet not all things are expedient to the gospel" and in antoher place "therefore let us run this race which is set before us with patience. Therefore lay aside every weight and sin that doth so easily beset you." So then... if you look at it like this.. maybe the issue isn't that masturbation in and of itself is outright a sin... and isn't technically against the rules. the wisdom in not doing it is that... masturbation is what my former pastor [who went on to be with teh lord a few years ago] would call a slippery slope. Slippery slopes are activities or situations that by definition wouldn't be horribly bad... but those activities or situations can quickly lead you into a path or condition which would be sinful and violating your own self. and, I'd like to point out that what is a "slippery slope" for some is not always the case for all.. and as the Lord is our parent.. I think he is willing to allow people exceptions to the rules.. and graces for various things depending on their situations...

Now, this point i bring up is hard for young people to understand.. mostly because they themselves are whether they like the inference or not... are still children.. people who cannot understand why parents use various techniques... and as a parent.. you see your children as a group yes.. however, among the group.. you also are able to see them and deal with them as individuals. For people who are parents, they might be able to understand this... if you have several children, the bedtimes they are given can and often times are different. Why are they different? you base your child's bedtime on how much sleep they need, do they wake up early easy, and how responsible they are. If you know your child works well on whatever amount of sleep they get.. and they want to stay up until 10pm.. you let them. You allow this because they can get up at 7am without a problem. However, if you have someone who goes to bed after 9:30 and has problems being woke up before 9am.. well.. that person needs a strict bedtime.. if you let them in bed too late, they won't get up for you... giving you all kinds of grief.

or, an example more detailed for the teenage kids.

We have sibling 1 and sibling 2. It's a wednesday night, and sibling 1 wants to go out with her girlfriend to a movie. The stipulation in this on a typical day is that the dishes aren't done yet. The parents run a rule you can't go anywhere until your stuff is done. Despite this being the rule, sibling 1 goes to mom or dad and tells them their friend is offering to treat them and if they may go. They allow this because siblign 1 is a responsible person, and they know without a doubt said person will get their chore done before they go to bed. Now, sibling 2 sees this. On friday, sibling 2 comes to mom and dad and asks if they can go skating with various friends. They ask if sibling 2 has finished their chores. This person hasn't done it, and they feel just because S1 got to go out.. they might also. However, parents know for a fact if they let S2 go out without doing their chores first.. those chores won't be done until sunday night... at the last possible moment. Now.. to S2, this might seem unfair because S1 got to go out not having chores done first. However, what S2 needs to understand is that S1 wouldn't have left their stuff undone all weekend just because they go out for a while. and this is not unlike a situation where some teens who've been involved in scandals with drinking or sex are given tighter curfews and restrictions when they go out than a sibling who has never given their parents a reason not to trust them.

and, finally, I'd like to say that I am not arguing points just "to be right." I think when a person does that; they are wrong no matter what they say even if their subject matter might be correct, especially where it has to do with the Lord. If you just want to be right, that's just pride.. because there is a difference between just wanting people to understand the bible for what it says.. and trying to be right about your personal interpretation of something and being rude to others when they are believers also but happen to disagree in some points with you. i mean.. if you look at all the denominations in western Christianity; obviously these all came about because people cannot find it in themselves to agree to disagree... and various people tend to pull to certain scriptures..and each group might cling to certain ones more than the other. It's not a situation that is where only one person is right and the other is wrong.. I simply like to point out various points of view... as people tend to just hop on a bandwagon and point fingers at people..

i mean.. if you all remember the parable of the good samaritan.. and people who get caught up in sin or "other things" .. and people find out.. the become the leper in that story.. and all of a sudden... people at church act like the people who see them and walk off far away or talk about them and do all this stuff.. but nothing they are doing is helping this person... what the church needs to do is be that samaritan who goes up... regardless of the leporasy and not being concerned with being "dirtied" by that person.. but has an earnest love in their heart to help this person... having sympathy and pity for someone who's been so overcome with somethign that is devouring their life.

I choose to be the samaritan... because the Lord has allowed me to be in situations that made me the leper... and before those experiences.. i used to walk on the other side fo the street too.. i was very quick to judge others and "just want them to be held accountable"... ever hear the verse, "restore such a one in the spirit of meekness, lest thou also be tempted"? well.. that means if you judge people too quickly, he might let you go through a trial of equal proportion tailored for you.. and see if you live up to your own criticism. and that happened to me. When it was me who was the leper.. it just really opened my eyes to all the other people who experience that. I, not being a leper anymore because of the mercy and grace of Jesus Christ in my life..., have learned compassion. The distain and disgust that once was in my eyes and heart were replaced with mercy. I can look at them and see myself. I remember the utter devastation that had to come into my life to humble me.. and I am not angry... i am not ashamed either. I am thankful for having learned that. I may have had to learn it the hard way. But, I believe that the Lord taught me to look at people the way he wants me to see them. And, i treat them the way i wished people had treated me.

so when i say the things I do, I say them out of experience. both as the experience of someone who is judgemental, someone who's been reproached beyond reasonable measure, nad as someone who was delivered yet in some places still journeys through healing...

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I guess my main point of view wasn't about whether it's right or wrong. Generally speaking, it is a slippery slope that people needs to be careful of. However, think about this. What if we have a member in here... not saying there is.. cuz i have no idea.. but.. humor me and say we have a member who's been struggling with this issue. They need help and support from teh body to overcome it. Obviously, support would mean accountability and their ability to see that activity is fruitless.. it's vanity; and in the end, it's a waste of time.. they can be spending that time praying, witnessing, reading the word, or seeking fellowship with other believers.

If we have a member who needs support... because of the strong way people have a tendency to respond to topics like this.. they might feel afraid to seek that support they need and come out and be confessing with anyone or someone... i do support being accountable one to another.. however, if a saint isn't already part of such a group like that.. and have been spending a lot of time alone.. and want to overcome it.. there is a really strong likelihood the reason they don't come forth is because it's a very nervous and fearful thing to have to bear your soul to other people. and even bigger reason would be because teh rest of the church can often not respond to it with meekness, gentleness, and a spirit of love.. instead, they respond with a spirit of criticism, superflous high and mighty attitude. But, I understand that is really hard for some people to understand if they haven't been snared into something. You really can't understand what it's like to try and get out of something unless you have taken a spill from grace... you can get caught up and want out.. but are just so wrapped up.. and you don't reach out to the church because the crap they give you doesn't help pull you out.. all it does is hurt you and make you have a feeling of not wanting to associate with the body... and then that saint becomes disconnected from the rest of the body.