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Indrid Cold

PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:44 pm


[For life sentenceing why don't we just ban them from the forum? It would be about the same as a penalty of death. Heh take over a city? With my mechs we could take over a country! lol j/k. As i've learned the simplest explaination for things tends to be the right one. I recommend we start out with an extreamely simplified plan. Thne buyild on it from there. And as we grow and interact with the people and it starts getting more populated we can add amendmants.]
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:27 pm


Indrid Cold
[For life sentenceing why don't we just ban them from the forum? It would be about the same as a penalty of death. Heh take over a city? With my mechs we could take over a country! lol j/k. As i've learned the simplest explaination for things tends to be the right one. I recommend we start out with an extreamely simplified plan. Thne buyild on it from there. And as we grow and interact with the people and it starts getting more populated we can add amendmants.]


OoC: Banning is bad because characters like myself and the other Most Wanted would be banned dozens of times over. Besides, ever good villain knows that if you get caught you have to break out or do the time. I'm just talking about all the pathetic wannabe villains who don't know what they're doing, yet.

Fitz Martel


Tanasha
Captain

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:25 pm


Jans Viper
Tanasha

IIRC, we have a constitution around here somewhere.

Anyway, criminal cases should improve dramatically around here. When you limit people to what they know IC it's a lot harder to prove guilt.


((I'm using U.S. constitution as my examples))

OoC: True, but you also have to consider things like psychics, sensing motives, empaths, and other related subjects and how they would impede on a criminal's 4th Amendment rights or would help to prove their guilt.


Pulling information from an unwilling mind is a prime example of violating the 4th and 5th US ammendments. Torture, blackmail, truth serum, they're all grounds for evidence to be thrown out. Prisoners are not to be the subjects of any kind of magical scrying or the like.

The rational reason for this is because establishing a motive would be easy, but without knowledge of the events in question it would be damning information to the jury that proves nothing itself. However, the rational reason is irrelevent - We do not have to have a reason to have our rights, and demanding a rational reason is starting down a very clear road to removal.

Jans Viper
Another thing to look at would be bail,


That depends on what the person is accused of doing, and what they are capable of. Bail is decided on a case-by-case basis in real life, and I see no reason for that to change here. A jaywalker with no powers if hardly a threat, while a murderer should reasonably not be allowed bail. A mage would likely be required to submit to a binding if they were to go out on bail, and somebody with abnormal powers that couldn't be controlled would not be eligible at all.

Jans Viper
and how exactly are you going to deal with criminals who have done things that would constitute a life sentence? Forget life sentencing, no Gaia RPing criminal is going to sit around for even 6 months waiting for their character to go on probation. I'm dealing with a guy who's been in jail for two months and says he is ready to get out after shooting at officers and blowing up buildings and the like.


This is the benefit of semi-canon RP. While they may be locked-up for life to us, they can go and do whatever they want outside our realm. If they want to resume RP here, then they have to find a permisable way out - something above the normal gundam raid.

Jans Viper
There are all sorts of legal issues that pop up when melding real life politics with fantasy and science fiction. I mean, anywhere that a police station is armed with it's own space fleet and enough weaponry to take a city would have major problems IRL but is completely necessary here in Gaia.


That's Another reason why I want the GG. The police shouldn't have to deal with millitary threats. Anything using non-civilian tech should be dealt with by a non-civilian force. The police stations should be armored enough to withstand a decent assault force long enough for a millitary force to arrive, but not armed well enough to quell it.

Jans Viper
It's these sort of things that I look at when I see a Gaian Government. And I'd like to join, really, but because my main account is a villain (#1 Most Wanted oh yeah! mrgreen ) I think I'll leave it up to you if you want one of my alts working for you.


Sure, but for now keep your alts in it on the up and up. It'd be nice to have the GG established and working for awhile before people start trying to sabotage and corrupt it. 3nodding
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:35 pm


Fitz Martel
Indrid Cold
[For life sentenceing why don't we just ban them from the forum? It would be about the same as a penalty of death. Heh take over a city? With my mechs we could take over a country! lol j/k. As i've learned the simplest explaination for things tends to be the right one. I recommend we start out with an extreamely simplified plan. Thne buyild on it from there. And as we grow and interact with the people and it starts getting more populated we can add amendmants.]


OoC: Banning is bad because characters like myself and the other Most Wanted would be banned dozens of times over. Besides, ever good villain knows that if you get caught you have to break out or do the time. I'm just talking about all the pathetic wannabe villains who don't know what they're doing, yet.


Banning is bad because it's reserved for people who prove themselves to be incapable of RPing with it the loosest constraints of reasonability, while people sentanced to life in prison deserve to be allowed to play from thier cell.

(Now that I think of it, a death penalty would be a stupid idea in a place where you can be ressurected for a price. It would serve only to let the powerful criminals get out of jail, while the less problematic random murderer would stay dead. Let 'em all rot in jail equally, I say.)

Tanasha
Captain


V.H. Griffin Chan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:56 am


Well after reading some of the points...just a few things to say... first of all...the idea of the council seems to be a good one (at least to me)....we may use democracy as used on many countries today, like UK (with a prime minister and senators, etc, etc)...but using a council will be far better...have in mind that the council will be formed by the leader of each Force (also we may include that people vote for a part of the council, lets say, half the senators will b epicked up from the military and the other half will be choosen byt the people) or a trusted subordinate of the leader...but in this case we may aply ASDF policy within our realm...for those who dont know ASDF policy dictates that if you want to join, you must sever all ties with other forces, thus been loyal to the organization only...we can use that for the Forces under the GG comand, to avoid people ataining leadership of too many guilds (thus gaining more political influence and power)...for example Im currently a member of the ASDF, wich is the air force of the GG, so I cant be on the Police...it will be quite imposible for my chara to be on both sides at once...the only thing here could be the fact of multiplayer with one Avy...for example that I have a character on ASDF and another one on another force..(I dont know you name it), thats the only issue I find for that system...

About the punishment for villians...well it sound pretty good to me...but have in mind that we need GOOD villians people who know when they have lose...been that the case...I dont see any dificulties by people locked in RP, obivusly those who will be the villians must be picked carefully...maybe we should made a rule to ban those villians who doesnt accept defeat... stare
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:17 am


my thinks:
1. what will they be deciding? 'the evil bob guild attacked us, so we will vote wether or not to shoot them.' please clarify...
2. leave it to the people. i've been saying this since the GPD election thread (does anyone remeber when that was?). when i started ranting on about starting the government. a constitutional convention. thread where you peoples place your goverment concept and constitution on front post. then it is chewed to crap by disscusion, then spit out by the peoples there, the ones that care to be there. they decides, not you decides.

Disestablishmentarianism


V.H. Griffin Chan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:08 am


blah909
my thinks:
1. what will they be deciding? 'the evil bob guild attacked us, so we will vote wether or not to shoot them.' please clarify...
2. leave it to the people. i've been saying this since the GPD election thread (does anyone remeber when that was?). when i started ranting on about starting the government. a constitutional convention. thread where you peoples place your goverment concept and constitution on front post. then it is chewed to crap by disscusion, then spit out by the peoples there, the ones that care to be there. they decides, not you decides.


Well I believe that in your first example the council or senate will be deciding the course of action, an all out attack, stelth infiltration, etc, etc, deciding the strategy and the funds for the operation, and the funds for each of our defense and civil forces, and about the second one...sorry I wasnt there when the GPD election hapened...so I cant said anything on that.. sweatdrop
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:05 pm


*Reads.* stare ...

Tippmann
Crew


Disestablishmentarianism

PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:19 pm


V.H. Griffin Chan
Well I believe that in your first example the council or senate will be deciding the course of action, an all out attack, stelth infiltration, etc, etc, deciding the strategy and the funds for the operation, and the funds for each of our defense and civil forces, and about the second one...sorry I wasnt there when the GPD election hapened...so I cant said anything on that.. sweatdrop

-funds? why would you need funds?
-just give someone the hammer. fo ex: 'after bob's evil guild attacks, bobetta (the dudett with the hammer) signs on, sees the terrible carnage of bob's egging of GPD central, then orders the online officers to catch bob and give him a noogie. bob: "ARGH!"'

>on a different note: a council sounds better to me than a senate. ex: bobetta is the Enforcer of the Lawsâ„¢ (cop), frank is Mr. Moneybags (treasuer), G.I. Jone is the Person Who Nukes Baddiesâ„¢ (army person), etc.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:04 am


There's good reason for a senate.

First: We have few enough people OOC that a pure democracy would be ok. However, how often would you take time off of work in real life to vote on refferendums? Daily? Who would propose them? What screening process would there be? Who would draft budgets?

Second: A council would be nice, but who selects them? Does every group have the same voting power? Is public health as important on deciding matters of state than the millitary? How are the people represented at all in a council?


I still think having them voted on by population ratio is still the best system.

Tanasha
Captain


Tanasha
Captain

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:13 am


blah909
-funds? why would you need funds?


I have no idea. Everything I've ever needed has just spontaniously generated in real-life. I've heard rumors of "buying" things, but I assumed that was unique to the amish people.

Sarcasm aside, budgets are important IC.

blah909
-just give someone the hammer. fo ex: 'after bob's evil guild attacks, bobetta (the dudett with the hammer) signs on, sees the terrible carnage of bob's egging of GPD central, then orders the online officers to catch bob and give him a noogie. bob: "ARGH!"'


That's what we've done in the past, and in most cases that would be the proper response. However, there have arisen situations that we haven't been able to respond to in the past.

How do we declare war? Do the millitaries just start attacks and hope that the civilians don't mind it when a stray enemy mortar blast crashes through the roof of an elementary school? What about when the war ends and we want to have a treaty? Does the millitary have unquestionable and arbitrary control over all foriegn pollicy matters? Are nuclear weapons the proper response to smugglers?

Some matters require involvement of both unbiased parties, and those who may suffer as a result of the actions that one group is considering.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:33 am


Tanasha
How do we declare war?

i think that requires another soverignty....
*evil laugh accopanys evil idea*

Disestablishmentarianism


Tanasha
Captain

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:23 am


blah909
Tanasha
How do we declare war?

i think that requires another soverignty....
*evil laugh accopanys evil idea*


Yes it does. However, I was asking about the mechanics of the act of declaring war, not the issues of who war is being declared on and why.

Rememeber, we're forming a government for the sake of RPing. We're not here to fight wars, we're here to form a functional and relatively stable society.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:28 pm


Tanasha
Rememeber, we're forming a government for the sake of RPing. We're not here to fight wars, we're here to form a functional and relatively stable society.

yeah, right. functional and stable societies dont stand well in imaginary worlds where people have acess to high explosives and there are no consequences to their action. i thinks we need another country...

Disestablishmentarianism


Tanasha
Captain

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:04 pm


blah909
Tanasha
Rememeber, we're forming a government for the sake of RPing. We're not here to fight wars, we're here to form a functional and relatively stable society.

yeah, right. functional and stable societies dont stand well in imaginary worlds where people have acess to high explosives and there are no consequences to their action. i thinks we need another country...


There are consequences, and if you don't abide by the consequences then you get banned.

A mage would be rather hesitant to go on a killing spree downtown if it meant that he would completely lose his ability to do magic when he was caught. If he chooses to act as if his restraints do nothing, then we declare that he accidently oblitterated his soul and ban him.
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Ring, Ring! Housekeeping!

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