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 Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:53 pm
XxCrack_OrangexX Update
I got into a discussion about this with one of my Christian friends. She said that dating a non Christian is something that God doesn't want, and God wants the best for me. I told her that I can't help my feelings if I fall in love with a non-believer. I also said that maybe someday he'll see my actions and one day believe in God too. I even showed her that verse in 1 Corinthians that you showed me. She said that I had a good point.
I feel right about this relationship but I notice how so many other Christians would say it's wrong. I know it doesn't matter what they think...but it's still kind of hard to stand up for what I think. I'll definitely pray about this... I have to agree with your friend. I'll just put the full verse up. II Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?God does not want us dating non-believers. And, not to be mean, but just because you say "you are falling in love" doesn't change the Lord's will. God does not want us paring up with unbelievers. Doesn't it seem kind of selfish and unsubmissive on your part? "Oh, no God. I don't want to break this relationship because I think that I'm in love." Ok...so you're going to ignore God's instruction for your own pleasure? That isn't right. Even though Christ went through so much for you to be saved, even though God renews your grace daily and gives you undeserved forgiveness you can't do this simple thing - ending a relationship with a non-believer? I can understand it being hard but life isn't easy. And I'm sure nothing can compare to the severity of what Christ did for us in terms of difficulty. As a Christian I believe it's best for you to submit to God rather than holding on to this relationship you so strongly desire. Besides, who do you love more? This non-believer or God? Aren't you supposed to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength? (Mark 12:30)" How can you do so if you're putting your feelings and your boyfriend above God and what He says? Secondly, you can draw him to become a believer in Christ without dating him. After all, there are tons of people who have had unbelieving friends, but made them believers through friendship. A relationship is not required to win someone over to Christ. I Corinthians 7:16 - How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife? Given: this verse is applied to marriage. But we can use it to look at whether or not we should date someone to bring them to Christ. The answer? No, because we do not know if we will do so or not. Thirdly, the problem with the I Corinthians verse is that it applies to marriage. In fact, the whole chapter is devoted to the subject of marriage. Anyway, yeah. This verse applies solely to marriage. Dating and marriage are 2 very different things. One dates to see who they want to marry, but that does not mean they are married. Can dating couples have sex? No. They are dating, not married. Likewise, this verse applies solely to marriage and cannot be attached to dating just because dating and marriage seem to be related or similar. One reason Paul says this, I am sure, is that he understood that one is not to divorce under any circumstances other than marital unfaithfulness (Matthew 5:32). So he said don't divorce, but do not date unbelievers. Do recall II Corinthians 6:14. Scripture cannot contradict itself, and I'm sure Paul did not either. The Bible says " 'Don't be yoked with unbelievers' BUT IF YOU DO, do not divorce. For Jesus has said that the only means for divorce is marital unfaithfulness. (II Corinthians 6:14; Matthew 5:32)" Fourth of all, I don't mean to be mean in saying this but just because you feel right doesn't mean it is right. I bet the people who gratify the cravings of their sinful nature feel great until they receive the punishment and conviction. The question is does God say it's right? Often, what God wants for us puts us into a zone of discomfort. I'm sure it wasn't comfortable at all to know that you were born to bare the sins of everyone on yourself and be beaten and put on a cross. I'm sure that those who were persecuted were afraid to spread the gospel. Elijah was afraid to do God's will when the Israelites rejected His covenant (I Kings 19). However, regardless of the hesitation, the fear, the worry, the pain, the uncertainty, they submitted themselves to God because they knew it was right. I am sure it is wrong to continue this relationship. Lastly, I agree with you. It doesn't matter what everyone thinks. However, it doesn't matter what you think either. What does matter is what God says. It makes sense for it to be hard for you to stand up for what you think, especially if it is not in accord with sound doctrine (the Bible) and God's will. And besides, thinking or assuming is likely to leave someone uncertain and unable to defend themselves. Seriously consider what the Bible says; seriously consider God's will. I'm sure that if you do so you will conclude that the relationship should be ended. How you will do so if you decide to, I am not sure. But as a brother in Christ, I highly suggest you heed my words.
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:03 pm
freelance lover Decide how important it is to you to share beliefs with your partner. Do you want someone you can pray with? Or do you want someone you can have a good rousing religious debate with? Or someone who is just content to live and let live. You really need to look within yourself and decide what you want in your partner, that's really the answer to you question.
My boyfriend identifies differently than me, but we have very similar beliefs. He would probably be uncomfortable with me asking to pray together, because his ex was a crazy, religious nut, but we can still discuss religion and we see eye to eye. That makes me happy, but it wouldn't make everyone happy.
Also, I do believe Paul says somewhere an unbelieving husband is saved through a believing wife, and a unbelieving wife is saved through her believing husband. Not quite. Pauls does not say they are saved, but he does say they are sanctified. Remember that Jesus is the one and only way into Heaven. There is no other possible route. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:17 pm
rmcdra I know what you mean. It was a big issue with my Dad when he heard that my fiancee "might" not be Christian (he didn't know she wasn't at the time and I know what sort of s**t storm that would have caused if he did know). It's tough to deal with social pressures especially when it's within your own community. Remember that other Christians are human just like you. Sometimes doing what you think is right will get people upset. Why? I don't know it varies from person to person but what I've seen it's most often personal insecurities. They might be afraid of losing from their fold you but Christ is with you so the fear of losing you is pointless. But yeah like Jaden said, "you don't have to stand up, but you shouldn't lie down either." If you can, just don't bring up that he's not a Christian, it's none of their business if he is or isn't. You're doing what God wants you to do on your end and showing Christian love to one "undeserving" (not literally, but from their point of view from what I've gathered from you). If they are so worried about his soul, remind them of the parable of the sheep and the goats, God knows who his are and aren't, we don't know anything about anyone outside of ourselves. I'm not going to repeat my views on dating unbelievers, as I've already expressed them. However, as to your final statements, I don't necessarily count them right.
Luke 15: 1-7
1 Now the tax collectors and “sinners” were all gathering around to hear him. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”
3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Matthew 18:10-14
10 “See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.[a]
12 “What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13 And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.
I'd say it is important for one's friends to know if a person their friend is dating is an unbeliever or not. That way they can pray for them along with building a relationship with that person and thus helping bring them to Christ all the more. It also makes them aware so that they may warn the friend and say dating a non-believer may not be important. God knows who are His and those who aren't His, indeed. However, that doesn't change the fact that He wants everyone to be saved (I Timothy 2:3-4) and is not willing that any be lost. It is important to remember that our top priority is to spread the gospel and get souls saved, which is what we all have been called to do.
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy SpiritOn an irrelevant note, I noticed your comment had a cuss word. I understand that it was clouded but is it really different if it's meant to mean the same thing as the bad word? And as a Christian, shouldn't you do your best to remain blameless? Colossians 3:8 - But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:26 pm
freelance lover Gjornia X freelance lover
[ ... ]
Also, I do believe Paul says somewhere an unbelieving husband is saved through a believing wife, and a unbelieving wife is saved through her believing husband.I often think about what Paul said in this specific scenario. Even though much of my Bible study group would disagree with me, and admonish me stating that as a "responsible Christian should seek other Christian males"--even while knowing you can easily turn that argument on its head--I think such a relationship is possible and permissible and does in fact "redeem" to an extent the non-believer in the relationship, provided we are being proper Christians in every other sense of the word.
I think God would see the love and respect your boyfriend/husband/so is giving you and would know that he therefore has the ability to love and accept Him. What's that famous line again? God is love.
And whoever doesn't know love doesn't know God. And as a Christian, one of Christ's disciples, and a mini embodiment of the living Word, by loving you your boyfriend is in turn loving God.
But like I said, that's just me. And I know people who will try to shame me, but love negates all shame in my world.
I read Blue Like Jazz a while back, and I remember in the book the author talks with his married friend who says that he feels God shows his love to him through his wife, and his wife shows him God's love to him through he love. I think that can easily extend beyond a non-Christian SO. I've always been of the opinion that love comes from God and when we love others we are showing them God's love, so by loving a non-believer you're showering them in God's love, and they do the same whether they acknowledge it or not. I don't fully agree with that final statement. God's love is shown through Christians, because they have been shown it. We have been given God's love and so we know it. How can a non-believer show God's love? How can a non-believer show what he does not know?
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:39 pm
rmcdra The verse about being "unequally yoked" has nothing to do with marrying or dating a non-believer. In fact there are verses counter to this: 1 Corinthians 7 12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. I honestly wouldn't push it on him. The Lord comes in patience not in force. Christ entered the world as babe not as military commander. If you want to have religious dialog don't go in trying to convert or "win souls" because then it's not dialog any more. My fiancee was a pagan when we first got together. When I started back with Christianity I didn't expect her to convert with me. I just answered questions about my religion when they came up and explained why I did the things that I did or why I did things differently from other Christians. I didn't expect her to practice what I did because I did not want to "unequally yoke" her. About a month or two ago after being together for 4 years now, she said that Christianity was where she felt most drawn to because it was what she was looking for in a religion. Now this does not happen in every case but yeah relationships with members of different religions can and do work. It will take respect for your partner and communication though to say the least but that is important in any relationship though. Actually I believe you have misinterpreted this verse in I Corinthians. The one in II Corinthians 6:14 has to mean dating and marriage. Otherwise, it would mean we shouldn't build relationships of any kind with non-believers. And if we don't become their friends, how will they be open to God's Word? They would be more likely if not most certain to ignore the gospel. No. The verse definitely applies to dating and marriage. The issue, however, is misinterpreting the verse in I Corinthians 7. We are told not to divorce because Jesus expressed that the only means for a divorce was marital unfaithfulness (Matthew 5:32) and because we are not to separate what God has joined together (Matthew 19:4-6). Note that God joins them together through marriage. He did not say if they were an unbeliever then you should divorce them. But it would make sense for Him not to have to say that anyway because it isn't exactly the wisest thing to date a non-believer when you're a Christian. So basically, Paul is saying "We have been told not to divorce unless the grounds is marital unfaithfulness, so do not divorce with them." In fact, after the verse you mentioned he goes on to say: I Corinthians 7:15-16
15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
This verse expresses that we are not to get into intimate relationships with unbelievers, and the uncertainty that getting into an intimate relationship with them can save them.
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:35 pm
Wow, On_Fire_4_CHRIST is on a roll here. 3nodding Thanks for all your contributions to this thread.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:22 am
Splendid Sailor Venus Wow, On_Fire_4_CHRIST is on a roll here. 3nodding Thanks for all your contributions to this thread. Lol! Just want the truth to be known. smile
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:36 am
On_Fire_4_CHRIST I'm not going to repeat my views on dating unbelievers, as I've already expressed them. However, as to your final statements, I don't necessarily count them right.
Luke 15: 1-7
1 Now the tax collectors and “sinners” were all gathering around to hear him. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”
3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Matthew 18:10-14
10 “See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.[a]
12 “What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13 And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.
I'd say it is important for one's friends to know if a person their friend is dating is an unbeliever or not. That way they can pray for them along with building a relationship with that person and thus helping bring them to Christ all the more. It also makes them aware so that they may warn the friend and say dating a non-believer may not be important. God knows who are His and those who aren't His, indeed. However, that doesn't change the fact that He wants everyone to be saved (I Timothy 2:3-4) and is not willing that any be lost. It is important to remember that our top priority is to spread the gospel and get souls saved, which is what we all have been called to do. And conversion is not conveyed by force but by compassion. It happens gradually not by man will but by God's will. Yes God wants everyone to be saved but it happens on his time and his watch. By refraining herself from being in a relationship with this person, whether it be friendship or romatic, she would be excluding herself from being a vehicle of God's will and showing her the love that she was first shown. Salvation is not a one time deal but a continuous process. If you want to get the pearl out of the mud you have to be willing to get dirty. Mark 2 15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” Quote:
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. - Galatians 5 Quote: On an irrelevant note, I noticed your comment had a cuss word. I understand that it was clouded but is it really different if it's meant to mean the same thing as the bad word? And as a Christian, shouldn't you do your best to remain blameless? Colossians 3:8 - But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.Edit: I thank you for your rebuke but I do not see myself as using abusive speach. I will refrain from using words you find offensive in my posts to you since it keeps you from being with Christ but others have not been turned away by my speech. I am a sinner just like everyone else.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:45 am
On_Fire_4_CHRIST Actually I believe you have misinterpreted this verse in I Corinthians. The one in II Corinthians 6:14 has to mean dating and marriage. Otherwise, it would mean we shouldn't build relationships of any kind with non-believers. Or it could mean don't set yourself to the standard of those that do not follow the Way. Quote: And if we don't become their friends, how will they be open to God's Word? They would be more likely if not most certain to ignore the gospel. No. The verse definitely applies to dating and marriage. If you wish to limit God in that way that is your choice. I hope God will help you with when you are ready to open up to him. Quote: The issue, however, is misinterpreting the verse in I Corinthians 7. We are told not to divorce because Jesus expressed that the only means for a divorce was marital unfaithfulness (Matthew 5:32) and because we are not to separate what God has joined together (Matthew 19:4-6). Note that God joins them together through marriage. He did not say if they were an unbeliever then you should divorce them. But it would make sense for Him not to have to say that anyway because it isn't exactly the wisest thing to date a non-believer when you're a Christian. So basically, Paul is saying "We have been told not to divorce unless the grounds is marital unfaithfulness, so do not divorce with them." In fact, after the verse you mentioned he goes on to say: I Corinthians 7:15-16
15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
This verse expresses that we are not to get into intimate relationships with unbelievers, and the uncertainty that getting into an intimate relationship with them can save them. I'm not seeing that at all. Sorry man you're going to have to explain better because your agrument doesn't make any sense. Avoiding dating someone not on the Way shows an insecurity in one's faith in God but that's just me.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:49 am
rmcdra On_Fire_4_CHRIST I'm not going to repeat my views on dating unbelievers, as I've already expressed them. However, as to your final statements, I don't necessarily count them right.
Luke 15: 1-7
1 Now the tax collectors and “sinners” were all gathering around to hear him. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”
3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Matthew 18:10-14
10 “See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.[a]
12 “What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13 And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.
I'd say it is important for one's friends to know if a person their friend is dating is an unbeliever or not. That way they can pray for them along with building a relationship with that person and thus helping bring them to Christ all the more. It also makes them aware so that they may warn the friend and say dating a non-believer may not be important. God knows who are His and those who aren't His, indeed. However, that doesn't change the fact that He wants everyone to be saved (I Timothy 2:3-4) and is not willing that any be lost. It is important to remember that our top priority is to spread the gospel and get souls saved, which is what we all have been called to do. And conversion is not conveyed by force but by compassion. It happens gradually not by man will but by God's will. Yes God wants everyone to be saved but it happens on his time and his watch. By refraining herself from being in a relationship with this person, whether it be friendship or romatic, she would be excluding herself from being a vehicle of God's will and showing her the love that she was first shown. Salvation is not a one time deal but a continuous process. If you want to get the pearl out of the mud you have to be willing to get dirty. Mark 2 15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” Quote:
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. - Galatians 5 Quote: On an irrelevant note, I noticed your comment had a cuss word. I understand that it was clouded but is it really different if it's meant to mean the same thing as the bad word? And as a Christian, shouldn't you do your best to remain blameless? Colossians 3:8 - But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.αἰσχρολογία - abusive speech, Please explain how my use of the word you take issue with is abusive. Not exactly. You can say "I believe we should take a break because... but we can still be friends" and continue the situation onwards. Who said this was God's will? His Word says don't date unbelievers. You could refer to it as His plan. But His perfect will and His perfect plan are 2 separate things. She could withdraw from the relationship and maintain friendship. And I agree. Conversion is done by compassion. That doesn't change, however, that the relationship should not be kept. She can end the relationship, salvage the friendship, and hopefully save the person. But there is no greater guarantee that dating this person will mean he'll get saved. Recall that verse in I Corinthians 7 I mentioned. I wasn't saying don't show God's love. But God's love is not simply shown through dating. And you don't need to date to show God's love. I was referring to the word you put asterisks. It obviously implies it's a bad word. I'm just getting on the ridding of foul language part of the verse in this case.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:57 am
rmcdra On_Fire_4_CHRIST Actually I believe you have misinterpreted this verse in I Corinthians. The one in II Corinthians 6:14 has to mean dating and marriage. Otherwise, it would mean we shouldn't build relationships of any kind with non-believers. Or it could mean don't set yourself to the standard of those that do not follow the Way. Quote: And if we don't become their friends, how will they be open to God's Word? They would be more likely if not most certain to ignore the gospel. No. The verse definitely applies to dating and marriage. If you wish to limit God in that way that is your choice. I hope God will help you with when you are ready to open up to him. Quote: The issue, however, is misinterpreting the verse in I Corinthians 7. We are told not to divorce because Jesus expressed that the only means for a divorce was marital unfaithfulness (Matthew 5:32) and because we are not to separate what God has joined together (Matthew 19:4-6). Note that God joins them together through marriage. He did not say if they were an unbeliever then you should divorce them. But it would make sense for Him not to have to say that anyway because it isn't exactly the wisest thing to date a non-believer when you're a Christian. So basically, Paul is saying "We have been told not to divorce unless the grounds is marital unfaithfulness, so do not divorce with them." In fact, after the verse you mentioned he goes on to say: I Corinthians 7:15-16
15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
This verse expresses that we are not to get into intimate relationships with unbelievers, and the uncertainty that getting into an intimate relationship with them can save them. I'm not seeing that at all. Sorry man you're going to have to explain better because your agrument doesn't make any sense. Avoiding dating someone not on the Way shows an insecurity in one's faith in God but that's just me. The fact that we're called to live a holy life already states that we should pursue God and not live like we used to. I think a yoke was some thing that like....ugh ok I can't explain it. I forgot. Sorry. XD ANYWAY! The verse could very easily mean both. But when you get into "What does light have in common with darkness" that's when you know it's talking about relationships. Who said I was limiting God? I believe in another post you all were talking about how God waits for others to move. Same in these situations. We can't just sit around and expect people to spontaneously be saved. We have to actually go out and spread the gospel and draw them to Christ. I've broken down the verse. If you can't understand it, I can't help you. And it doesn't show insecurity at all. It shows a want to chose the right person to date, and that you want to follow God's Word.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:06 am
On_Fire_4_CHRIST Not exactly. You can say "I believe we should take a break because... but we can still be friends" and continue the situation onwards. Who said this was God's will? His Word says don't date unbelievers. His Word is the Christ, the Logos. I argue that scripture does advise this except under a legalistic lense and on top of that it goes agains the spirit of the Law. Do remember that the letter of the Law kills. Quote: You could refer to it as His plan. But His perfect will and His perfect plan are 2 separate things. She could withdraw from the relationship and maintain friendship. And you are are poorly explaining why she should break up other than "The Bible says so and that's it." How is this not being like the Pharesis who condemned Jesus for working on the Sabbath and for eating unclean foods? Quote: And I agree. Conversion is done by compassion. That doesn't change, however, that the relationship should not be kept. She can end the relationship, salvage the friendship, and hopefully save the person. But there is no greater guarantee that dating this person will mean he'll get saved. Recall that verse in I Corinthians 7 I mentioned. Yes he may leave on his own accord, that still does not explain why one should not date someone who is not on the Way. Quote: I wasn't saying don't show God's love. But God's love is not simply shown through dating. And you don't need to date to show God's love. And one can show it through dating so I'm failing to see the problem. Quote: I was referring to the word you put asterisks. It obviously implies it's a bad word. I'm just getting on the ridding of foul language part of the verse in this case. I thank you for your rebuke but I do not see myself as using abusive speach. I will refrain from using words you find offensive in my posts to you since it keeps you from being with Christ but others have not been turned away by my speech. I am a sinner just like everyone else and will do what I need to do to help you be right with God.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:15 am
rmcdra On_Fire_4_CHRIST Not exactly. You can say "I believe we should take a break because... but we can still be friends" and continue the situation onwards. Who said this was God's will? His Word says don't date unbelievers. His Word is the Christ, the Logos. I argue that scripture does advise this except under a legalistic lense and on top of that it goes agains the spirit of the Law. Do remember that the letter of the Law kills. Quote: You could refer to it as His plan. But His perfect will and His perfect plan are 2 separate things. She could withdraw from the relationship and maintain friendship. And you are are poorly explaining why she should break up other than "The Bible says so and that's it." How is this not being like the Pharesis who condemned Jesus for working on the Sabbath and for eating unclean foods? Quote: And I agree. Conversion is done by compassion. That doesn't change, however, that the relationship should not be kept. She can end the relationship, salvage the friendship, and hopefully save the person. But there is no greater guarantee that dating this person will mean he'll get saved. Recall that verse in I Corinthians 7 I mentioned. Yes he may leave on his own accord, that still does not explain why one should not date someone who is not on the Way. Quote: I wasn't saying don't show God's love. But God's love is not simply shown through dating. And you don't need to date to show God's love. And one can show it through dating so I'm failing to see the problem. Quote: I was referring to the word you put asterisks. It obviously implies it's a bad word. I'm just getting on the ridding of foul language part of the verse in this case. I thank you for your rebuke but I do not see myself as using abusive speach. I will refrain from using words you find offensive in my posts to you since it keeps you from being with Christ but others have not been turned away by my speech. I am a sinner just like everyone else and will do what I need to do to help you be right with God. Ok you totally lost me there. Well considering that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness (II Timothy 3:16), it would make sense for me to use the Bible. The Bible is God's Word. The Pharisees just wanted to act holy by knowing the law. I am saying follow what the Bible says, as it is God's Word and instruction to us. If we don't follow what the Bible says, what do we follow? We haven't been given anything else. We certainly can't use our own "knowledge" and compose an argument. That was just in reply to what you said. My point is that God does not want us dating unbelievers and you do not need to date in order to save someone. If you haven't noticed, my argument is revolving around the Bible. Ok.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:24 am
On_Fire_4_CHRIST The fact that we're called to live a holy life already states that we should pursue God and not live like we used to. I think a yoke was some thing that like....ugh ok I can't explain it. I forgot. Sorry. XD ANYWAY! The verse could very easily mean both. But when you get into "What does light have in common with darkness" that's when you know it's talking about relationships. Who said she's living as she used to? How so? I see the dualism of light not being the same as darkness so the standard that light is held to is not the same as darkness. Quote: Who said I was limiting God? I believe in another post you all were talking about how God waits for others to move. Same in these situations. We can't just sit around and expect people to spontaneously be saved. We have to actually go out and spread the gospel and draw them to Christ. "Preach the gospel at all times -- If necessary, use words" -- Saint Francis of Assisi Quote: I've broken down the verse. If you can't understand it, I can't help you. And it doesn't show insecurity at all. It shows a want to chose the right person to date, and that you want to follow God's Word. We may have to agree to disagree here but I will add: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” I don't see how encouraging her to break up with her boyfriend (edit: in this situation) would be in line with the greatest commandments.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:38 am
On_Fire_4_CHRIST Ok you totally lost me there. I'm sorry I'll restate that. His Word is the Christ, the Logos. I argue that scripture does not advise this except under a legalistic lense and on top of that it goes agains the spirit of the Law. Do remember that the letter of the Law kills. Quote: Well considering that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness (II Timothy 3:16), it would make sense for me to use the Bible. The Bible is God's Word. The Pharisees just wanted to act holy by knowing the law. I am saying follow what the Bible says, as it is God's Word and instruction to us. If we don't follow what the Bible says, what do we follow? We haven't been given anything else. We certainly can't use our own "knowledge" and compose an argument. Ignoring that 2 Timothy is a forgery added to the canon to counter the Marcionite movement, I'll consider it for the sake of argument. Do note that the key word in 2 Timothy 3:16 is "useful" and remember brother 2 Corithians 3 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. If the letter is killing then it is not useful. Quote: My point is that God does not want us dating unbelievers and you do not need to date in order to save someone. If you haven't noticed, my argument is revolving around the Bible. Never said that you had to date to save someone, I just don't see how breaking up with someone not on the Way is on mark when the written word is looked at in light of the Living Word that is among us and your arguements are not holding up. You seem to be missing the forest for the trees my friend. I am using the Bible too so I don't know why you needed to assert that you were using the Bible. No one is arguing against the Bible, merely how you are interpreting it. I believe your interpretation is missing the mark and I have stated my reasons why.
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