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Argh. *Holds head* I read the past 30 or so pages of that debate. They are like a broken record on an endless loop of the most annoying part of a song. They keep repeating themselves, and really 'don't' listen to anyone but themselves. *Shakes aching head* I don't see why I even try...props to romanoff, though. He's awesome.

I'm just going to have to trust you on this one. Normally I would look this up for myself but as the key word search for the forums is disabled, it is very difficult. I'm sure I could take the time to look it up but I simply don't have the time, energy of inclination. Here is one thing for you to ponder, however. About a week or 10 days ago I counted the number of threads in ED-P with the word communism in the title. There were 5 on the first page alone. They were all started by someone in the NCS. Today I checked and there are two communist threads on the first page. I don't know if the Mods finally decided that enough is enough and moved them/deleted them. Or if they died of their own accord. Be that as it may, I feel that the other side needs to be heard. I also think it's funny that I see posted on occasion something along the lines of, "Haven't we already gone through this? Let's see some new topics." My buddy, romanoff, started a thread on social security reform. It lasted about a day or two and was then swept away by all the communist, pro-choice, anti-bush threads. The particular thread I am in right now is entitleed " I am a Communist. Just read it..." and the author is Ciril. I have decided that for the time being I am just going to stay in that particular thread because as some of the others in this guild have stated, it does get time consuming. I don't have the time to post in all of their threads and tell them how rediculous they are. And as I have said before, I don't think that I am going to change any of their minds but maybe some of the fence sitters will read some of my posts and go look for themselves.

You know it's really funny that I was talking with someone else about this same subject. The civil war really wasn't about slavery. It was about the destruction of the 10th amendment. I mean look at the reasons for why it took so long for Lincoln to sign the emancipation proclaimation. He did it for his own self serving reasons to keep France and England out of the war. Regardless of how you feel about slavery, because I'm pretty sure we are on the same page, if it was a war to end slavery, then why did politicians abandon former slaves to their slave masters with the Great Compromise of 1876. It put the former secessionists back in control in the South where they set up a system of economic slavery and the divide and conquer laws of Jim Crow.

Communism, good for a pre-industrial village, bad for a post-industrial nation. Communism can't have a goverment in it's very nature. By having one you're already saying that these members of the goverment are better than everybody else. It's a great idea on paper, everybody working together for the benifit of society, but without competition, there is no need for Sally to work harder than Joe. Joe sees no need to work harder than Sally, eventually they just see that it's more benificial to take a coffee break every ten minutes and let Steve do all the work. After all, Steve is stupid and thinks that everybody is doing their share because the goverment says they are.

The Nazi party of WWII did rule by Facist means, as did most of the axis powers. The problem is that they claim to not be what they are and people inheritly believe that they are only about state socialism. They'd be your typical corrupt communist goverment. The point being they're arogant pricks who can't believe the faults in their logic, and since they can incite a very angsty group of miseducated youth to their side, they can control arguements. That and they think that ideology is a set of proofs that can be found in the New York Times.

This is the point I have been TRYING to make along along. See if the boneheads listen, however. And yes, I DO have the right to call them boneheads...that is not an insult, directly, but rather expressing my aggrivation at the fact that they refuse to see beyond the tips of their own noses or listen to a word anyone says against them. The whole debate was a sham, really, meant as more of a recruiting drive for them. 'Least, that's my opinion.

Yup.. it all seems to neatly loop around to the ayn rand principles.

Yes and what is the incentive to improve him or herself in a capitalist system, to oppress. The only goal in a Laissez-faire capitalist system is to create an oligarchy nothing more for that is how that system works. We (the United States) are no longer a laissez-faire society due to TR, FDR, and LBJ etc. Socialism has been added to the system and Socialism does work, have you not seen European Nations? They still allow capitalism within the system but its very socialized compared to the United States.

Also since you believe Laissez-faire capitalist system is great look at the 1800s with imperialism. Laissez-faire capitalism is dead has been dead for along time in the United States. For Laissez -faire capitalism creates oligarchy and TR dismantled the monopolies of the 1800-1900s within the United States.