Welcome to Gaia! ::

Hey--no talking theology without letting me in! *grins*

Loki as Odin's blood-brother: I may have seen that elsewhere besides Marvel Comics, and I seem to recall us having chats about that before. Let me poke through my books... are you SURE it's only a comic book thing? smile I'll cut you slack because you were jet-lagged when you posted...

Good post! Interested in this much, are you?? smile

Crap, I must have been so toasted when I wrote that. Sorry about that, everyone. Odin and Loki actually may have been halves of the same deity, WAY back in the day. By the time of the writing of some of the older sagas and kennings (the Lokasenna and Voluspal for instance) there are situations that mirror "blood-brotherhood" between the two gods. In fact the term is directly used in at least one major translation of the Lokasenna, when the gods are dissing Loki and he replies:

"Remember, Odin, in the olden days what blood-brothers we were.You would never have dreamed of drinking ale unless it was brought for us both."

So, I was wrong. But blood-brothers here means something a little bit different than what we think of: to pre-millennium proto-Norse it would have meant warriors blooded together in battle, not brothers who slice their palms and share blood to show kinship. However, it is very true that a lot of the angst in the Eddas and other hero tales comes from the fact that Odin consistently (and often rather... stupidly...) cuts Loki an uncommon amount of slack and lets him get away with an awful lot. Still, in the line from the Lokasenna Loki is basically reminding Odin in shorthand of all that they've been through together--and hoping for a break. Which he of course gets.

Sorry about the mistake. I need to be awake and caffeinated before I post, clearly...

But the whole thing about Odin killing Baby Loki's father and adopting him is Marvel's invention--their whole Thorverse is so messed up it makes me grind my teeth a lot. (for instance there is no Hodur as Balder's twin, much less his brother, just a fat minor deity who "shot at him and failed to kill him" which blows the whole myth off the gunwales.) Loki is only a very little bit younger than Odin, if that, depending on which version of the myth structure you read.

WOW! So much info in this thread. It's too bad I had no idea about this topic (especially cuz I don't know much about the story in Marvel comics) before but at least I can always come here to learn, huh? mrgreen
If I have something to add, I'll do so later on.

what a most interesting topic. Norse Mythology is a minor hobby of mine. My real interest lies in the Viking culture itself though. And I am much more of an authority on Greek Culture and Mythology. That I would label more as a passion than a hobby. But that is a subject for another time.

I would love it if you would start a topic about that subject, Gortarzis! The more topics, the merrier--we're all here to learn and have fun! Poke around and see where you'd like to place discussions; Greek culture and history were very important to Renaissance scholars, after all, and a discussion of the mythology could go right in this very sub-forum.

Posts too long? Ooops. Was that me? smile

I like the Greek gods too; I haven't studied them to the same depth but I really do like them. Gortarzis, if you ever want to talk Viking culture etc. I'm your guy. I like reading about Greece and Rome as well. Let me chime in and add my voice to the request for a thread. Not sure where it would go best but it would be cool.

Topic revival! I've been playing Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth on the PSP.
I've gained a lot of valuable inspiration from it as well (it's a rather fun game too).

I've learned more about the Norse legends from playing it as well. I've looked at some bits online and they are pretty much correct. Obviously the games are going to have differences, but they do reflect what the Valkyries do. As Hod said before, choosing the righteous and gallant who are worthy to enter Valhalla. The term Valkyrie meaning "Chooser of the Slain."

I already found one flaw in the first game though, and it's right at the beginning. One of the characters who happens to be a mercenary realises a mistake he makes and tries to make amends, but is afterwards interrupted by someone he'd rather not deal with (and cannot get away from or win against), so he takes his own life. However, after the first dungeon Freya says to Lenneth that she doesn't think he's a hero. Still, you can boost his traits so that he has a much higher value so he can BECOME worthy to go to Valhalla. The idea of the game is that you find heroic characters who die and become the Einherjar in order to fight for Odin when the time for Ragnarok arrives.

Of course I don't know a great deal about the mythology yet, but it seems Square got quite a bit of it right when they made it.

I've not yet played the next two games, so I don't know how they go after the first one.