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 Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:48 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo That is why I have a problem with the Bible to begin with.
Have you ever read the story "The Tell-Tale Heart" by Edgar Allen Poe?
He tries to explain just because a character is the narrator, doesn't make his views correct.
I will read a line by the book and explain...
* True! --nervous --very, very dreadfully nervous I had been and am; but why will you say that I am mad? The disease had sharpened my senses --not destroyed --not dulled them. Above all was the sense of hearing acute. I heard all things in the heaven and in the earth. I heard many things in hell. How, then, am I mad? *
So the question is, can you find him a reliable source?
Let's go further, deeper into the story...
* I loved the old man. He had never wronged me. He had never given me insult. For his gold I had no desire. I think it was his eye! yes, it was this! He had the eye of a vulture --a pale blue eye, with a film over it. Whenever it fell upon me, my blood ran cold; and so by degrees --very gradually --I made up my mind to take the life of the old man, and thus rid myself of the eye forever. *
Now we move to the end where the police come to the old man's house where they find the narrator and explain they are here from hearing a shriek.
* The officers were satisfied. My manner had convinced them. I was singularly at ease. They sat, and while I answered cheerily, they chatted of familiar things. But, ere long, I felt myself getting pale and wished them gone. My head ached, and I fancied a ringing in my ears: but still they sat and still chatted. The ringing became more distinct: --It continued and became more distinct: I talked more freely to get rid of the feeling: but it continued and gained definiteness --until, at length, I found that the noise was not within my ears. No doubt I now grew very pale; --but I talked more fluently, and with a heightened voice. Yet the sound increased --and what could I do? It was a low, dull, quick sound --much such a sound as a watch makes when enveloped in cotton. I gasped for breath --and yet the officers heard it not. I talked more quickly --more vehemently; but the noise steadily increased. I arose and argued about trifles, in a high key and with violent gesticulations; but the noise steadily increased. Why would they not be gone? I paced the floor to and fro with heavy strides, as if excited to fury by the observations of the men --but the noise steadily increased. Oh God! what could I do? I foamed --I raved --I swore! I swung the chair upon which I had been sitting, and grated it upon the boards, but the noise arose over all and continually increased. It grew louder --louder --louder! And still the men chatted pleasantly, and smiled. Was it possible they heard not? Almighty God! --no, no! They heard! --they suspected! --they knew! --they were making a mockery of my horror!-this I thought, and this I think. But anything was better than this agony! Anything was more tolerable than this derision! I could bear those hypocritical smiles no longer! I felt that I must scream or die! and now --again! --hark! louder! louder! louder! louder!
"Villains!" I shrieked, "dissemble no more! I admit the deed! --tear up the planks! here, here! --It is the beating of his hideous heart!" *
So from reading that, can you say that the narrator is reliable?
Hell no.
He committed murder because of an eye, he says that he is hearing things, and he thought, at the end of the story, the man was still alive.
Point is, just because you listen to the testimony of something, does it make it correct? No... From that though we get that the old man was killed by the narrator, and that he was probably schizophrenic or mentally disturbed which caused the whole unfortunate mess. We should have the common sense to be able to spot a madman's ravings, or other problems with a testimony, and if there are no obvious ones, then one should consider giving the teller the benefit of the doubt. And it isn't reason to doubt the Bible. That was written by mulitple authors over centuries and it all ties in together. Besides you have to look at the motive of telling a testimony, which in the case of the Bible was more to record important events for a family and then a nation, for which they'd want to be accurate. About whether the disciples made up the Bible: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/why_christianity_is_not_false.html#oO8K4sn3veD3 About whether it's the Word of God: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibletru.html#ebfIzsfeTt9w About whether the Bible has been changed since it was first written: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibleorg.html#eRSaxANG32w4
Point being, the story is trying to tell that the narrator can't always be trusted. It's not from how obvious something is, it's if you can trust from what someone is telling you.Most everyone has a skewed perception of the world. We all process things in a way that probably slightly to completely twists. You can't even trust you're own perception, so why bother being so careful with other people's? Plus a hard and fast rule like trust no story that doesn't have proof is usually not the best ideas. A bunch of minor rules for evaluating something like a story usually works better (like look at the motive of the story and the story teller, or look at how probable it is).
But if you are trying to state that why trust others if we can't trust ourselves, then how can you trust your belief in God if your knowledge could just be invalid as anything, like you stated?Because I have to trust something. That's part of my point. You either have to learn to trust even when nothing's entirely trustworthy, or live in paranoia. Living in paranoia was getting to me, so I chose the former.
Is it that you believe in him or that you like the promises that is made?
Really, even if you tell me you have trust in him, what kind of proof can you have?
You said that the perception can be deceived. If this is so, than how is it possible that you can trust the Bible or anything else you read?
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Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:04 pm
Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo It's not that the story is obvious. The story was MADE obvious to get the readers to understand the story.
Point being, the story is trying to tell that the narrator can't always be trusted. It's not from how obvious something is, it's if you can trust from what someone is telling you. Most everyone has a skewed perception of the world. We all process things in a way that probably slightly to completely twists. You can't even trust you're own perception, so why bother being so careful with other people's? Plus a hard and fast rule like trust no story that doesn't have proof is usually not the best ideas. A bunch of minor rules for evaluating something like a story usually works better (like look at the motive of the story and the story teller, or look at how probable it is).
But if you are trying to state that why trust others if we can't trust ourselves, then how can you trust your belief in God if your knowledge could just be invalid as anything, like you stated?Because I have to trust something. That's part of my point. You either have to learn to trust even when nothing's entirely trustworthy, or live in paranoia. Living in paranoia was getting to me, so I chose the former.
Is it that you believe in him or that you like the promises that is made?
Really, even if you tell me you have trust in him, what kind of proof can you have?
You said that the perception can be deceived. If this is so, than how is it possible that you can trust the Bible or anything else you read?Well the biggest thing is I have need of this trust. I'll admit that right off the bat. But yes I believe in Him, and I count on His promises. And there is proof, but most of it is in what I've read, or in my stories and those of other people. The former I can't say as eloquently as the those authors, and the latter you don't trust. Because of logic, and again, I need to trust something. Have you ever gone through a place where you're mind feels so shaky you can't even trust you're own thoughts? It's really difficult, and kinda terrifying. You start to realize that even if you can't trust things, you need the illusion that you can, or functioning becomes impossible. So basically illusion or not, it's worth it to me to trust Him. And I think He stepped in and saved my sanity, but that's a long story, and I think I repressed half of it anyway. Basically, by what I know of this world, I think there's far more that says He's here then not. If for some reason I find I've misjudged the world, then more was gained then lost.
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:41 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo It's not that the story is obvious. The story was MADE obvious to get the readers to understand the story.
Point being, the story is trying to tell that the narrator can't always be trusted. It's not from how obvious something is, it's if you can trust from what someone is telling you. Most everyone has a skewed perception of the world. We all process things in a way that probably slightly to completely twists. You can't even trust you're own perception, so why bother being so careful with other people's? Plus a hard and fast rule like trust no story that doesn't have proof is usually not the best ideas. A bunch of minor rules for evaluating something like a story usually works better (like look at the motive of the story and the story teller, or look at how probable it is).
But if you are trying to state that why trust others if we can't trust ourselves, then how can you trust your belief in God if your knowledge could just be invalid as anything, like you stated?Because I have to trust something. That's part of my point. You either have to learn to trust even when nothing's entirely trustworthy, or live in paranoia. Living in paranoia was getting to me, so I chose the former.
Is it that you believe in him or that you like the promises that is made?
Really, even if you tell me you have trust in him, what kind of proof can you have?
You said that the perception can be deceived. If this is so, than how is it possible that you can trust the Bible or anything else you read?Well the biggest thing is I have need of this trust. I'll admit that right off the bat. But yes I believe in Him, and I count on His promises. And there is proof, but most of it is in what I've read, or in my stories and those of other people. The former I can't say as eloquently as the those authors, and the latter you don't trust. Because of logic, and again, I need to trust something. Have you ever gone through a place where you're mind feels so shaky you can't even trust you're own thoughts? It's really difficult, and kinda terrifying. You start to realize that even if you can't trust things, you need the illusion that you can, or functioning becomes impossible. So basically illusion or not, it's worth it to me to trust Him. And I think He stepped in and saved my sanity, but that's a long story, and I think I repressed half of it anyway. Basically, by what I know of this world, I think there's far more that says He's here then not. If for some reason I find I've misjudged the world, then more was gained then lost.
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:21 pm
Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo But the reason you can believe yourself is because you trust yourself. Considering you control yourself.
But if you are trying to state that why trust others if we can't trust ourselves, then how can you trust your belief in God if your knowledge could just be invalid as anything, like you stated? Because I have to trust something. That's part of my point. You either have to learn to trust even when nothing's entirely trustworthy, or live in paranoia. Living in paranoia was getting to me, so I chose the former.
Is it that you believe in him or that you like the promises that is made?
Really, even if you tell me you have trust in him, what kind of proof can you have?
You said that the perception can be deceived. If this is so, than how is it possible that you can trust the Bible or anything else you read?Well the biggest thing is I have need of this trust. I'll admit that right off the bat. But yes I believe in Him, and I count on His promises. And there is proof, but most of it is in what I've read, or in my stories and those of other people. The former I can't say as eloquently as the those authors, and the latter you don't trust. Because of logic, and again, I need to trust something. Have you ever gone through a place where you're mind feels so shaky you can't even trust you're own thoughts? It's really difficult, and kinda terrifying. You start to realize that even if you can't trust things, you need the illusion that you can, or functioning becomes impossible. So basically illusion or not, it's worth it to me to trust Him. And I think He stepped in and saved my sanity, but that's a long story, and I think I repressed half of it anyway. Basically, by what I know of this world, I think there's far more that says He's here then not. If for some reason I find I've misjudged the world, then more was gained then lost. You want me to go mad again, don't you? JK But really, meditating on that isn't gonna do me any good, so I won't. It's one of the only facts I discard, because I just don't have anything to do with it. And by the way it's not just what I've read and heard that could be discarded...it's EVERYTHING. Reality is fragile. That's the problem I have, not whether I trust my sources. I do trust my sources because they make better arguments then most atheists, and I've known some of them my entire life. Why would I trust an someone in this guild who's telling me to doubt the testimonies of people close to me, and other people who's testimonies match up to theirs, rather then someone like my mom. My mom's had some visions and awesome revelations over the years, and it makes a lot more sense to believe that then to go with the doubt storytellers philosophy you're presenting.
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:00 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo But the reason you can believe yourself is because you trust yourself. Considering you control yourself.
But if you are trying to state that why trust others if we can't trust ourselves, then how can you trust your belief in God if your knowledge could just be invalid as anything, like you stated? Because I have to trust something. That's part of my point. You either have to learn to trust even when nothing's entirely trustworthy, or live in paranoia. Living in paranoia was getting to me, so I chose the former.
Is it that you believe in him or that you like the promises that is made?
Really, even if you tell me you have trust in him, what kind of proof can you have?
You said that the perception can be deceived. If this is so, than how is it possible that you can trust the Bible or anything else you read?Well the biggest thing is I have need of this trust. I'll admit that right off the bat. But yes I believe in Him, and I count on His promises. And there is proof, but most of it is in what I've read, or in my stories and those of other people. The former I can't say as eloquently as the those authors, and the latter you don't trust. Because of logic, and again, I need to trust something. Have you ever gone through a place where you're mind feels so shaky you can't even trust you're own thoughts? It's really difficult, and kinda terrifying. You start to realize that even if you can't trust things, you need the illusion that you can, or functioning becomes impossible. So basically illusion or not, it's worth it to me to trust Him. And I think He stepped in and saved my sanity, but that's a long story, and I think I repressed half of it anyway. Basically, by what I know of this world, I think there's far more that says He's here then not. If for some reason I find I've misjudged the world, then more was gained then lost. You want me to go mad again, don't you? JK But really, meditating on that isn't gonna do me any good, so I won't. It's one of the only facts I discard, because I just don't have anything to do with it. And by the way it's not just what I've read and heard that could be discarded...it's EVERYTHING. Reality is fragile. That's the problem I have, not whether I trust my sources. I do trust my sources because they make better arguments then most atheists, and I've known some of them my entire life. Why would I trust an someone in this guild who's telling me to doubt the testimonies of people close to me, and other people who's testimonies match up to theirs, rather then someone like my mom. My mom's had some visions and awesome revelations over the years, and it makes a lot more sense to believe that then to go with the doubt storytellers philosophy you're presenting.
You have told me you do not know enough of scientific laws and theories to believe in Atheism.
If this is the case, then I find that your a Christian not from faith, but the ignorance of not wanting to live without God.
It's not that you WANT to believe in God, your just scared of what a life is without this being. Or atleast, that is what you have told me.
I can't argue with logic over spiritual logic because it doesn't add up. It's like fact vs opinion which may be fact.
I will say this, is it that Atheists have failed to convert you because God seems logical or is the thought of God more comforting than actual logic?
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:04 pm
Captain_Shinzo thundersong_gx9 oh yeah, science also proves the existence of a God/ grand Creator through the use of the Big bang theory and Genesis 1:2-5 or: "2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. "
First off, this is an Atheist thread. Not a thread to preach Christianity.
Second, that shows nothing saying Science proves God.
All it says is the Big Bang title and than you quote mined from the Bible. It proved nothing.
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:05 pm
Captain_Shinzo piratemage12 I know. random. but important. So people who aren't green, GET green. Sigh... You know something? Animals don't fight about things like race and religion. they don't look at an animal of another species and hate them because they're not of their species, and they don't HAVE a religion to fight about. They don't go around killing their own kind like humans do, over the silly things we fight about. Let's all be like the animals, huh? I'm sick of all this fighting and hate. I think just because something seems impossible, like there being a God and a heaven, doesn't mean it is. Just because the human mind can't begin to contemplate something, like the vastness of the universe, doesn't mean that the universe has and end or doesn't. I don't believe in evolution because I don't think that a bunch of dust particles or whatever came together and exploded into what's now the universe. I'm thinking, what created the dust that exploded? Things aren't just THERE. But hey? I never studied up on evolution so I can't really say anything. So atheists, inform me on the theory of evolution so I may better understand it. CAKE BATTER IS TASTY!!
Second, animals do fight over their kind ALL the time, just not over religion.
Have you ever seen a cat meet another cat?
Do they shake hands and hit the mall?
Besides, fighting and hate, as you confessed, is caused by religion?
So doesn't that tell you not to believe in religion? neutral
Lastly, I would inform you on evolution if you described Evolution.
If I recall, the theory your talking about, which you incorrectly described, is called The Big Bang.
But hey, why should you say you should not believe in something like dust particles colliding together?
As I recall you saying,
" Just because the mind can't comprehend it, doesn't mean it is impossible."
In a way, it is true. But it gives us an idea to research it and probably see if it isn't true.
But no, I wont inform you on the theory of Evolution or the theory of the Big Bang.
Go research it, I'm not going to spend my time telling you what you should have researched before thinking it is impossible.
So go look it up because I'm not being Santa Claus right now.
Also, randomness ISN'T needed to get a point across. ._________.
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:11 pm
Captain_Shinzo Captain_Shinzo piratemage12 I know. random. but important. So people who aren't green, GET green. Sigh... You know something? Animals don't fight about things like race and religion. they don't look at an animal of another species and hate them because they're not of their species, and they don't HAVE a religion to fight about. They don't go around killing their own kind like humans do, over the silly things we fight about. Let's all be like the animals, huh? I'm sick of all this fighting and hate. I think just because something seems impossible, like there being a God and a heaven, doesn't mean it is. Just because the human mind can't begin to contemplate something, like the vastness of the universe, doesn't mean that the universe has and end or doesn't. I don't believe in evolution because I don't think that a bunch of dust particles or whatever came together and exploded into what's now the universe. I'm thinking, what created the dust that exploded? Things aren't just THERE. But hey? I never studied up on evolution so I can't really say anything. So atheists, inform me on the theory of evolution so I may better understand it. CAKE BATTER IS TASTY!!
Second, animals do fight over their kind ALL the time, just not over religion.
Have you ever seen a cat meet another cat?
Do they shake hands and hit the mall?
Besides, fighting and hate, as you confessed, is caused by religion?
So doesn't that tell you not to believe in religion? neutral
Lastly, I would inform you on evolution if you described Evolution.
If I recall, the theory your talking about, which you incorrectly described, is called The Big Bang.
But hey, why should you say you should not believe in something like dust particles colliding together?
As I recall you saying,
" Just because the mind can't comprehend it, doesn't mean it is impossible."
In a way, it is true. But it gives us an idea to research it and probably see if it isn't true.
But no, I wont inform you on the theory of Evolution or the theory of the Big Bang.
Go research it, I'm not going to spend my time telling you what you should have researched before thinking it is impossible.
So go look it up because I'm not being Santa Claus right now.
Also, randomness ISN'T needed to get a point across. ._________.
-quotation technique-
"There are arguments for atheism, and they do not depend, and never did depend, upon science. They are arguable enough, as far as they go, upon a general survey of life; only it happens to be a superficial survey of life."
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:17 pm
Emperor Angelo XXV Captain_Shinzo Captain_Shinzo piratemage12 I know. random. but important. So people who aren't green, GET green. Sigh... You know something? Animals don't fight about things like race and religion. they don't look at an animal of another species and hate them because they're not of their species, and they don't HAVE a religion to fight about. They don't go around killing their own kind like humans do, over the silly things we fight about. Let's all be like the animals, huh? I'm sick of all this fighting and hate. I think just because something seems impossible, like there being a God and a heaven, doesn't mean it is. Just because the human mind can't begin to contemplate something, like the vastness of the universe, doesn't mean that the universe has and end or doesn't. I don't believe in evolution because I don't think that a bunch of dust particles or whatever came together and exploded into what's now the universe. I'm thinking, what created the dust that exploded? Things aren't just THERE. But hey? I never studied up on evolution so I can't really say anything. So atheists, inform me on the theory of evolution so I may better understand it. CAKE BATTER IS TASTY!!
Second, animals do fight over their kind ALL the time, just not over religion.
Have you ever seen a cat meet another cat?
Do they shake hands and hit the mall?
Besides, fighting and hate, as you confessed, is caused by religion?
So doesn't that tell you not to believe in religion? neutral
Lastly, I would inform you on evolution if you described Evolution.
If I recall, the theory your talking about, which you incorrectly described, is called The Big Bang.
But hey, why should you say you should not believe in something like dust particles colliding together?
As I recall you saying,
" Just because the mind can't comprehend it, doesn't mean it is impossible."
In a way, it is true. But it gives us an idea to research it and probably see if it isn't true.
But no, I wont inform you on the theory of Evolution or the theory of the Big Bang.
Go research it, I'm not going to spend my time telling you what you should have researched before thinking it is impossible.
So go look it up because I'm not being Santa Claus right now.
Also, randomness ISN'T needed to get a point across. ._________.
-quotation technique-
"There are arguments for atheism, and they do not depend, and never did depend, upon science. They are arguable enough, as far as they go, upon a general survey of life; only it happens to be a superficial survey of life."
The point isn't what evidence is needed for Atheism, it's what evidence is needed to prove to such person what she is talking about. Because if she is using false evidence, which she strongly has, than what would be the point in trying to believe in Atheism?
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:19 pm
Captain_Shinzo Emperor Angelo XXV Captain_Shinzo Captain_Shinzo piratemage12 I know. random. but important. So people who aren't green, GET green. Sigh... You know something? Animals don't fight about things like race and religion. they don't look at an animal of another species and hate them because they're not of their species, and they don't HAVE a religion to fight about. They don't go around killing their own kind like humans do, over the silly things we fight about. Let's all be like the animals, huh? I'm sick of all this fighting and hate. I think just because something seems impossible, like there being a God and a heaven, doesn't mean it is. Just because the human mind can't begin to contemplate something, like the vastness of the universe, doesn't mean that the universe has and end or doesn't. I don't believe in evolution because I don't think that a bunch of dust particles or whatever came together and exploded into what's now the universe. I'm thinking, what created the dust that exploded? Things aren't just THERE. But hey? I never studied up on evolution so I can't really say anything. So atheists, inform me on the theory of evolution so I may better understand it. CAKE BATTER IS TASTY!!
Second, animals do fight over their kind ALL the time, just not over religion.
Have you ever seen a cat meet another cat?
Do they shake hands and hit the mall?
Besides, fighting and hate, as you confessed, is caused by religion?
So doesn't that tell you not to believe in religion? neutral
Lastly, I would inform you on evolution if you described Evolution.
If I recall, the theory your talking about, which you incorrectly described, is called The Big Bang.
But hey, why should you say you should not believe in something like dust particles colliding together?
As I recall you saying,
" Just because the mind can't comprehend it, doesn't mean it is impossible."
In a way, it is true. But it gives us an idea to research it and probably see if it isn't true.
But no, I wont inform you on the theory of Evolution or the theory of the Big Bang.
Go research it, I'm not going to spend my time telling you what you should have researched before thinking it is impossible.
So go look it up because I'm not being Santa Claus right now.
Also, randomness ISN'T needed to get a point across. ._________.
-quotation technique-
"There are arguments for atheism, and they do not depend, and never did depend, upon science. They are arguable enough, as far as they go, upon a general survey of life; only it happens to be a superficial survey of life."
The point isn't what evidence is needed for Atheism, it's what evidence is needed to prove to such person what she is talking about. Because if she is using false evidence, which she strongly has, than what would be the point in trying to believe in Atheism?
Besides, I've seen arguments supporting atheism, and frankly, those just aren't very effective.
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:20 pm
Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo But what drives this trustworthyness that you have for your God?
Is it that you believe in him or that you like the promises that is made?
Really, even if you tell me you have trust in him, what kind of proof can you have?
You said that the perception can be deceived. If this is so, than how is it possible that you can trust the Bible or anything else you read? Well the biggest thing is I have need of this trust. I'll admit that right off the bat. But yes I believe in Him, and I count on His promises. And there is proof, but most of it is in what I've read, or in my stories and those of other people. The former I can't say as eloquently as the those authors, and the latter you don't trust. Because of logic, and again, I need to trust something. Have you ever gone through a place where you're mind feels so shaky you can't even trust you're own thoughts? It's really difficult, and kinda terrifying. You start to realize that even if you can't trust things, you need the illusion that you can, or functioning becomes impossible. So basically illusion or not, it's worth it to me to trust Him. And I think He stepped in and saved my sanity, but that's a long story, and I think I repressed half of it anyway. Basically, by what I know of this world, I think there's far more that says He's here then not. If for some reason I find I've misjudged the world, then more was gained then lost. You want me to go mad again, don't you? JK But really, meditating on that isn't gonna do me any good, so I won't. It's one of the only facts I discard, because I just don't have anything to do with it. And by the way it's not just what I've read and heard that could be discarded...it's EVERYTHING. Reality is fragile. That's the problem I have, not whether I trust my sources. I do trust my sources because they make better arguments then most atheists, and I've known some of them my entire life. Why would I trust an someone in this guild who's telling me to doubt the testimonies of people close to me, and other people who's testimonies match up to theirs, rather then someone like my mom. My mom's had some visions and awesome revelations over the years, and it makes a lot more sense to believe that then to go with the doubt storytellers philosophy you're presenting.
You have told me you do not know enough of scientific laws and theories to believe in Atheism.
If this is the case, then I find that your a Christian not from faith, but the ignorance of not wanting to live without God.
It's not that you WANT to believe in God, your just scared of what a life is without this being. Or atleast, that is what you have told me.
I can't argue with logic over spiritual logic because it doesn't add up. It's like fact vs opinion which may be fact.
I will say this, is it that Atheists have failed to convert you because God seems logical or is the thought of God more comforting than actual logic?What 'actual logic' are you talking about?
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:27 pm
Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo But what drives this trustworthyness that you have for your God?
Is it that you believe in him or that you like the promises that is made?
Really, even if you tell me you have trust in him, what kind of proof can you have?
You said that the perception can be deceived. If this is so, than how is it possible that you can trust the Bible or anything else you read? Well the biggest thing is I have need of this trust. I'll admit that right off the bat. But yes I believe in Him, and I count on His promises. And there is proof, but most of it is in what I've read, or in my stories and those of other people. The former I can't say as eloquently as the those authors, and the latter you don't trust. Because of logic, and again, I need to trust something. Have you ever gone through a place where you're mind feels so shaky you can't even trust you're own thoughts? It's really difficult, and kinda terrifying. You start to realize that even if you can't trust things, you need the illusion that you can, or functioning becomes impossible. So basically illusion or not, it's worth it to me to trust Him. And I think He stepped in and saved my sanity, but that's a long story, and I think I repressed half of it anyway. Basically, by what I know of this world, I think there's far more that says He's here then not. If for some reason I find I've misjudged the world, then more was gained then lost. You want me to go mad again, don't you? JK But really, meditating on that isn't gonna do me any good, so I won't. It's one of the only facts I discard, because I just don't have anything to do with it. And by the way it's not just what I've read and heard that could be discarded...it's EVERYTHING. Reality is fragile. That's the problem I have, not whether I trust my sources. I do trust my sources because they make better arguments then most atheists, and I've known some of them my entire life. Why would I trust an someone in this guild who's telling me to doubt the testimonies of people close to me, and other people who's testimonies match up to theirs, rather then someone like my mom. My mom's had some visions and awesome revelations over the years, and it makes a lot more sense to believe that then to go with the doubt storytellers philosophy you're presenting.
You have told me you do not know enough of scientific laws and theories to believe in Atheism.
If this is the case, then I find that your a Christian not from faith, but the ignorance of not wanting to live without God.
It's not that you WANT to believe in God, your just scared of what a life is without this being. Or atleast, that is what you have told me.
I can't argue with logic over spiritual logic because it doesn't add up. It's like fact vs opinion which may be fact.
I will say this, is it that Atheists have failed to convert you because God seems logical or is the thought of God more comforting than actual logic?I'm not quite sure what you mean...? Where? What exactly did I say that, because whatever it was, I didn't mean it like that. I certainly wouldn't have put it like that, so I'm not gonna argue for something I probably never said. No, I really believe it. I think you have read me completely wrong. biggrin No I want to believe in God. I really don't see where you're getting your conclusions. I need Him too though, which might be what's throwing you off. It's theology, and if you wanna debate with me then you have to deal with some spiritual logic. If you want to debate facts, go into a political or economic debate, or debate with another atheist playing the devil's advocate. Otherwise, just tell me you don't find the point relevent, or drop it when it bugs you. I'll let it go, unless it comes up again. That almost makes it sound like atheism is a religion. I'm a Christian both for logic AND for comfort, and mostly because I really love God, I really want to please Him, I like that He has things handled, I'm glad to have a guide in the form of a Bible, I've seen how much fuller a life with Him verses without Him is, the people I respect and love most follow Him, etc. I could come up with a thousand reasons why it's better to be a Christian then an atheist, though I doubt any atheist would be foolish enough to try and 'convert' me. For one thing it's really stupid to convert someone from belief when the belief clearly makes them happier then non-belief, and for another if I thought they were, then I'd start trying to convert them to Christianity.
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:59 pm
Semiremis Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo But what drives this trustworthyness that you have for your God?
Is it that you believe in him or that you like the promises that is made?
Really, even if you tell me you have trust in him, what kind of proof can you have?
You said that the perception can be deceived. If this is so, than how is it possible that you can trust the Bible or anything else you read? Well the biggest thing is I have need of this trust. I'll admit that right off the bat. But yes I believe in Him, and I count on His promises. And there is proof, but most of it is in what I've read, or in my stories and those of other people. The former I can't say as eloquently as the those authors, and the latter you don't trust. Because of logic, and again, I need to trust something. Have you ever gone through a place where you're mind feels so shaky you can't even trust you're own thoughts? It's really difficult, and kinda terrifying. You start to realize that even if you can't trust things, you need the illusion that you can, or functioning becomes impossible. So basically illusion or not, it's worth it to me to trust Him. And I think He stepped in and saved my sanity, but that's a long story, and I think I repressed half of it anyway. Basically, by what I know of this world, I think there's far more that says He's here then not. If for some reason I find I've misjudged the world, then more was gained then lost. You want me to go mad again, don't you? JK But really, meditating on that isn't gonna do me any good, so I won't. It's one of the only facts I discard, because I just don't have anything to do with it. And by the way it's not just what I've read and heard that could be discarded...it's EVERYTHING. Reality is fragile. That's the problem I have, not whether I trust my sources. I do trust my sources because they make better arguments then most atheists, and I've known some of them my entire life. Why would I trust an someone in this guild who's telling me to doubt the testimonies of people close to me, and other people who's testimonies match up to theirs, rather then someone like my mom. My mom's had some visions and awesome revelations over the years, and it makes a lot more sense to believe that then to go with the doubt storytellers philosophy you're presenting.
You have told me you do not know enough of scientific laws and theories to believe in Atheism.
If this is the case, then I find that your a Christian not from faith, but the ignorance of not wanting to live without God.
It's not that you WANT to believe in God, your just scared of what a life is without this being. Or atleast, that is what you have told me.
I can't argue with logic over spiritual logic because it doesn't add up. It's like fact vs opinion which may be fact.
I will say this, is it that Atheists have failed to convert you because God seems logical or is the thought of God more comforting than actual logic?What 'actual logic' are you talking about?
I'm saying
" Do you trust God more than possible reality? "
Which is more as in the reason of believing in him.
Mostly because she has multiple times stated how questionable reality is.
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:04 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo But what drives this trustworthyness that you have for your God?
Is it that you believe in him or that you like the promises that is made?
Really, even if you tell me you have trust in him, what kind of proof can you have?
You said that the perception can be deceived. If this is so, than how is it possible that you can trust the Bible or anything else you read? Well the biggest thing is I have need of this trust. I'll admit that right off the bat. But yes I believe in Him, and I count on His promises. And there is proof, but most of it is in what I've read, or in my stories and those of other people. The former I can't say as eloquently as the those authors, and the latter you don't trust. Because of logic, and again, I need to trust something. Have you ever gone through a place where you're mind feels so shaky you can't even trust you're own thoughts? It's really difficult, and kinda terrifying. You start to realize that even if you can't trust things, you need the illusion that you can, or functioning becomes impossible. So basically illusion or not, it's worth it to me to trust Him. And I think He stepped in and saved my sanity, but that's a long story, and I think I repressed half of it anyway. Basically, by what I know of this world, I think there's far more that says He's here then not. If for some reason I find I've misjudged the world, then more was gained then lost. You want me to go mad again, don't you? JK But really, meditating on that isn't gonna do me any good, so I won't. It's one of the only facts I discard, because I just don't have anything to do with it. And by the way it's not just what I've read and heard that could be discarded...it's EVERYTHING. Reality is fragile. That's the problem I have, not whether I trust my sources. I do trust my sources because they make better arguments then most atheists, and I've known some of them my entire life. Why would I trust an someone in this guild who's telling me to doubt the testimonies of people close to me, and other people who's testimonies match up to theirs, rather then someone like my mom. My mom's had some visions and awesome revelations over the years, and it makes a lot more sense to believe that then to go with the doubt storytellers philosophy you're presenting.
You have told me you do not know enough of scientific laws and theories to believe in Atheism.
If this is the case, then I find that your a Christian not from faith, but the ignorance of not wanting to live without God.
It's not that you WANT to believe in God, your just scared of what a life is without this being. Or atleast, that is what you have told me.
I can't argue with logic over spiritual logic because it doesn't add up. It's like fact vs opinion which may be fact.
I will say this, is it that Atheists have failed to convert you because God seems logical or is the thought of God more comforting than actual logic?I'm not quite sure what you mean...? Where? What exactly did I say that, because whatever it was, I didn't mean it like that. I certainly wouldn't have put it like that, so I'm not gonna argue for something I probably never said. No, I really believe it. I think you have read me completely wrong. biggrin No I want to believe in God. I really don't see where you're getting your conclusions. I need Him too though, which might be what's throwing you off. It's theology, and if you wanna debate with me then you have to deal with some spiritual logic. If you want to debate facts, go into a political or economic debate, or debate with another atheist playing the devil's advocate. Otherwise, just tell me you don't find the point relevent, or drop it when it bugs you. I'll let it go, unless it comes up again. That almost makes it sound like atheism is a religion. I'm a Christian both for logic AND for comfort, and mostly because I really love God, I really want to please Him, I like that He has things handled, I'm glad to have a guide in the form of a Bible, I've seen how much fuller a life with Him verses without Him is, the people I respect and love most follow Him, etc. I could come up with a thousand reasons why it's better to be a Christian then an atheist, though I doubt any atheist would be foolish enough to try and 'convert' me. For one thing it's really stupid to convert someone from belief when the belief clearly makes them happier then non-belief, and for another if I thought they were, then I'd start trying to convert them to Christianity.
As for the last paragraph, what do you mean? I was asking WHY you believed in the idea of God, not the belief over Atheism.
You asked the idea of believing in a skewed reality. If this is the case, then where does the line of skew end? I'm just saying, do you trust God or what he promises?
As for that last part...converting? Come on, I mean, if it comes to it, yeah, but don't just do it when someone else has a religion. I mean, just because I have had personal experience. Do you know how many times I have to hear how amazing God is when trying to see a movie?
How I am criticized for not going to the praise meetings at school?
It's harsh when people want to convert. Just don't overdo it.
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Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:00 pm
Emperor Angelo XXV Captain_Shinzo Captain_Shinzo piratemage12 I know. random. but important. So people who aren't green, GET green. Sigh... You know something? Animals don't fight about things like race and religion. they don't look at an animal of another species and hate them because they're not of their species, and they don't HAVE a religion to fight about. They don't go around killing their own kind like humans do, over the silly things we fight about. Let's all be like the animals, huh? I'm sick of all this fighting and hate. I think just because something seems impossible, like there being a God and a heaven, doesn't mean it is. Just because the human mind can't begin to contemplate something, like the vastness of the universe, doesn't mean that the universe has and end or doesn't. I don't believe in evolution because I don't think that a bunch of dust particles or whatever came together and exploded into what's now the universe. I'm thinking, what created the dust that exploded? Things aren't just THERE. But hey? I never studied up on evolution so I can't really say anything. So atheists, inform me on the theory of evolution so I may better understand it. CAKE BATTER IS TASTY!!
Second, animals do fight over their kind ALL the time, just not over religion.
Have you ever seen a cat meet another cat?
Do they shake hands and hit the mall?
Besides, fighting and hate, as you confessed, is caused by religion?
So doesn't that tell you not to believe in religion? neutral
Lastly, I would inform you on evolution if you described Evolution.
If I recall, the theory your talking about, which you incorrectly described, is called The Big Bang.
But hey, why should you say you should not believe in something like dust particles colliding together?
As I recall you saying,
" Just because the mind can't comprehend it, doesn't mean it is impossible."
In a way, it is true. But it gives us an idea to research it and probably see if it isn't true.
But no, I wont inform you on the theory of Evolution or the theory of the Big Bang.
Go research it, I'm not going to spend my time telling you what you should have researched before thinking it is impossible.
So go look it up because I'm not being Santa Claus right now.
Also, randomness ISN'T needed to get a point across. ._________.
-quotation technique-
"There are arguments for atheism, and they do not depend, and never did depend, upon science. They are arguable enough, as far as they go, upon a general survey of life; only it happens to be a superficial survey of life."
It seems you have a problem with the general arguments atheists use to debate for atheism, but as far as we know the only debate you've had on atheism is with a teenage angst-theist rebelling against "the man".
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