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 Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:03 pm
I recently finished reading Twin-Shadowed Knights and the lab centre in which both D's destroyed was supposedly the place where he may have been created/born. But there was a passage in the first novel that stated that the union between the Sacred Ancestor and Mina the Fair had a son that was half vampire and half human.
There is also the fact that in Pale Fallen Angel, D is rumored to be over five thousand years old-- so, in the Vampire Hunter D universe, the year is 12,090 A.D.-- or around that timeline since each book seems to happen about a few months to a year in between from each other, then D would have been born around the year 7090 A.D.
If this is the case, then what was written in the first volume doesn't apply to Twin-Shadowed Knights. Is there a definite age for D or is this just speculation, like his name?
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:04 pm
I've been wondering the same thing myself really. Sadly, I don't have my books with me(I'm housesitting at the moment, so they're all back at my place), so I can't quote anything.
We already know that D's mother is Mina the Fair. Its been hinted at a few times, though less noticeably than the constant mention of D being the Great One's child.
As of where it is so far in America, I've read nothing thats stated his definite age, only that like you said, in Pale Fallen Angel, the computer tells D that 5,000 years prior that the Great One had been there and had spoken about D. As of yet, I cannot be sure, but I think he's even older than that, so before the year 7090 AD. Once again, I'm not sure, but I can't imagine D not being even older than that, seeing as there seems to be lots of twists in the series.
This too, I cannot be sure of. I think I recall the 'fake' D saying something about their birth. He said they were taken from their mother's womb or something along those lines...
Also, unlike D, he stayed underground, unknown to many over the years, until D coming brought him to emerge. So what was said in book one could still stand. Not all of the Nobility knew what the Great One did all the time, so I doubt that Count Lee would have known about the fake D.
I really wish I had my book to quote it. Dx Sadly, I haven't read Twin Shadowed Knight in awhile, so my memory on it is a tad bit hazy.
I'll edit my post once I'm able to get my hands on it. ^_^;;
As of right now, I can only speculate on his age, just like on what his name really is....
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:02 pm
'"Ten thousand years ago, was there not the case of our Sacred Ancestor failing to attain a human maiden of his heart's desire?" ... "I have heard that the woman our Sacred Ancestor desired was named Mina the Fair, and she lived in the ancient Land of Angels. And it seems our Sacred Ancestor found the blood coursing beneath her night translucent skin sweeter and more delectable than any to ever wash across his tongue, though he had already drunk from the life founts of thousands of beauties."' (Kikuchi, pg. 131 of Vampire Hunter D Volume 1)
I was able to find this passage, but not the one where it states that the Sacred Ancestor had made a human woman bear children and slay them and have her bear more.
And about D's father-- it's quite obvious, even in the first book that Count Dracula is indeed D's father, but it's interesting to see how Hideyuki plays out the relationship between him and D. I believe there was a beautiful moment in Twin-Shadowed Knights that depicted the image of father and son, near the end of the book.
"Each made a leap fifteen feet and entered the chest of the massive, shadowy form. Like a son being embraced by his father." (Kikuchi, pg. 280 of Vampire Hunter D: Twin-Shadowed Knight Parts One & Two Volume 13)
About their birth, the fake D did mention about being taken away from their mother, I just can't seem to find the page at the moment. sweatdrop
I'm currently re-reading both novels of Pale Fallen Angel, and I haven't come across a definite age for D-- but the number 5,000 does seem to be a popular number in Twin-Shadowed Knight. I guess since his mother is Mina the Fair, then D would then have to be older than five thousand years old-- which then would speculate, if we were to go with the Bram Stoker time line, then D would have been born in the Middle Ages, or somewhere around that time.
But in the first passage I wrote down, Count Magnus Lee mentioned that the Sacred Ancestor had sought her about ten thousand years ago-- and if the Vampire Hunter D universe revolved around the year 12,090 A.D, then that would mean he claimed her in the late 2000's. And the ancient "City of Angels" could also mean Los Angeles, since Hideyuki mentioned in the postscript of Twin-Shadowed Knight, that the setting of the series take place in the futuristic great plains of America. But I do agree, there are many twists and turns in this series.
As for his name-- I think there's a thread just for that, but I don't think any of us are closer to knowing it. Seems like Kikuchi and Amano are the only ones who know. :stressed:
Off topic-- I think I've seen you post in the A/M/C Forums-- unless I'm wrong. And I love your Tardis. <3
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Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:07 am
Spoiler Alert for those who haven't read Twin Shadowed Knight
If it was ten thousand years, and Mina was only human(and for sure D's mother), then at most she'd only have at the most a little over 100 years of life. I doubt that the Sacred Ancestor would take her as an older woman, so... unless there was something created by that time to extend a human's lifespan, D may be very well near 10,000 years old if that Mina was his mother. I'm not sure though. Dx
I think theres a passage about the Sacred Ancestor having human women bear children and then disposing of them in Raiser of Gales. Once again, I can't quote it sadly, but I'm pretty sure it was when the remains of Dracula's presence was speaking with D. I haven't read that one in ages though, since out of all the books, its actually been my least favorite so far.
I went home and grabbed my copy of Twin Shadowed Knight though. I believe I found the passage.
"This is where the birthing device was. Do you understand, D? We were born not in our mother's home or a delivery room, but in a room for experimentation."
D stood there like a black shadow.
It was quiet. The stillness was such that it seemed to have been ordained in ancient times and respected by all of creation.
And then it was broken by an insolent voice, echoing in a hair-raising manner,"'We were born.' D, that means the two of you..."
"Thats right," the fake said, nodding. "Here, we were plucked from our mother's womb and cut apart. Apparently our backs were joined in a special fashion. It would seem that's why we're so similar, both in appearance and in ability. Which of us is the older brother and which is the younger, D?"
Nothing from the Hunter.
"I'm not surprised. You can't answer that, can you? But I know. I, who was sealed away in the cold and weighty darkness for so, so long. Unlike you, who were given life right away. I know, you see." (Kikuchi, pg. 113 of Vampire Hunter D: Twin Shadowed Knight Parts One and Two- Volume 13)
I never did imagine that the ancient "City of Angels" could be Los Angeles, but now that I think about it, it makes sense. A lot of sense actually.
I'm hoping that eventually we will learn D's real name, though at the same time if we ever do, I may feel a little disappointed about learning it, since it would take away some of the mystery about D that I love so much. sweatdrop
Off topic-- Yeah, I post there occasionally, though I didn't think I'd ever be recognized by someone from there. Though I do tend to post there the most next to other forums. Guilds however are what take up a lot of my time with posts.
And thanks. I'm guessing you're a Doctor Who fan? whee
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Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:45 pm
So, according to that passage from Twin-Shadowed Knight, D was indeed born in that experimentation room. I wonder if Hideyuki will delve deeper in D's back story. And I believe that Mina the Fair would have to be young. So, according to what was given in the first book, chapter two, People of the Frontier, in which described on how the human race ended up the way they did-- then it would mean that some time in the late 2000's, the ancient "City of Angels", or the world rather, was high-tech and pretty much in grasp of all future technology.
Perhaps D-Armageddon might shed some light on D's history, and who his parents are-- given that it's quite plain that the Sacred Ancestor-- or Count Dracula for that matter is D's father. And if we have doubts, the movies give full detail on who D's father is-- especially Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, when Left Hand was telling D about Countess Carmilla while they were approaching the Castle of Chaythe. But since the movies deviated away from the novels-- I don't know why they did, the information still seems to stand on its own.
I think the passage about the Sacred Ancestor was either in the first or second-- but I'm sure it's in the first-- somewhere in the first few chapters. I keep on thinking that it's amongst the chapter where Doris has her first encounter with the town when they assembled to her house, the night after D fought Larmica and Garou. The second novel wasn't my favourite either, and neither is the fifth one, The Stuff of Dreams. But I'm going to buy the manga just because. xD
Off topic-- Yeah, I tend to post in Guilds more than in Forums. Are you apart of the A/M/C Circle Jerk Guild?
And yes, I am a Doctor Who fan-- although I only got into the series that had David Tennant as the Doctor. My best friend owns several seasons, and some of them have Rose and Martha as his assistants/companions. I also saw one episode with the previous Doctor-- Christopher something. sweatdrop I can't remember his last name-- but the episode I saw was called The Empty Child.
Edit: I think you were right when you said D might be over 10,000 years old. There was a scene in the first book where Doris explains to D who Count Magnus Lee is and his origins and his relation to the village of Ransylva.
"Doris gave a little nod. "He's been lord over this region since long before there was any village of Ransylva. His name is Count Lee. I've heard some say he's a hundred years old, while others say he's ten thousand."
"Ten thousand years old, eh? The powers of a Noble grow with the passing years. He could prove a troubling adversary," D said, though his tone didn't sound particularly troubled." (Kikuchi, pg. 23 of Vampire Hunter D Volume 1)
I don't know if this quote gives any testament to indicate if this age is true or not for D, as any Hunter on the Frontier, especially Vampire Hunters would know about these things when dealing with Nobles. But this is all just speculation, and could possibly tie in with the whole Mina the Fair thing, as well as the ancient "City of Angels" bit too.
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Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:42 pm
I just noticed how both Count Maguns Lee and Baron Byron Balazs's mother refer to the Sacred Ancestor as the august personage.
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Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:45 pm
I'm sure this won't help but consider the possibility that the A.D. mentioned in the book isn't the same as our A.D. (or Common Era as we now call it)
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Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:33 pm
You're probably right about that, but it's fun to think that it could be. Are there any ways of contacting Kevin Leahy in order to ask him these questions?
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Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:00 am
Ixobel I recently finished reading Twin-Shadowed Knights and the lab centre in which both D's destroyed was supposedly the place where he may have been created/born. But there was a passage in the first novel that stated that the union between the Sacred Ancestor and Mina the Fair had a son that was half vampire and half human. There is also the fact that in Pale Fallen Angel, D is rumored to be over five thousand years old-- so, in the Vampire Hunter D universe, the year is 12,090 A.D.-- or around that timeline since each book seems to happen about a few months to a year in between from each other, then D would have been born around the year 7090 A.D. If this is the case, then what was written in the first volume doesn't apply to Twin-Shadowed Knights. Is there a definite age for D or is this just speculation, like his name?
Apparently, D is likely between 10,000 and 5,000 years old, and that's about as specific as we can get so far, right?
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:31 pm
Ixobel So, according to that passage from Twin-Shadowed Knight, D was indeed born in that experimentation room. I wonder if Hideyuki will delve deeper in D's back story. And I believe that Mina the Fair would have to be young. So, according to what was given in the first book, chapter two, People of the Frontier, in which described on how the human race ended up the way they did-- then it would mean that some time in the late 2000's, the ancient "City of Angels", or the world rather, was high-tech and pretty much in grasp of all future technology. Perhaps D-Armageddon might shed some light on D's history, and who his parents are-- given that it's quite plain that the Sacred Ancestor-- or Count Dracula for that matter is D's father. And if we have doubts, the movies give full detail on who D's father is-- especially Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, when Left Hand was telling D about Countess Carmilla while they were approaching the Castle of Chaythe. But since the movies deviated away from the novels-- I don't know why they did, the information still seems to stand on its own. I think the passage about the Sacred Ancestor was either in the first or second-- but I'm sure it's in the first-- somewhere in the first few chapters. I keep on thinking that it's amongst the chapter where Doris has her first encounter with the town when they assembled to her house, the night after D fought Larmica and Garou. The second novel wasn't my favourite either, and neither is the fifth one, The Stuff of Dreams. But I'm going to buy the manga just because. xD Off topic-- Yeah, I tend to post in Guilds more than in Forums. Are you apart of the A/M/C Circle Jerk Guild? And yes, I am a Doctor Who fan-- although I only got into the series that had David Tennant as the Doctor. My best friend owns several seasons, and some of them have Rose and Martha as his assistants/companions. I also saw one episode with the previous Doctor-- Christopher something. sweatdrop I can't remember his last name-- but the episode I saw was called The Empty Child. Edit: I think you were right when you said D might be over 10,000 years old. There was a scene in the first book where Doris explains to D who Count Magnus Lee is and his origins and his relation to the village of Ransylva. "Doris gave a little nod. "He's been lord over this region since long before there was any village of Ransylva. His name is Count Lee. I've heard some say he's a hundred years old, while others say he's ten thousand."
"Ten thousand years old, eh? The powers of a Noble grow with the passing years. He could prove a troubling adversary," D said, though his tone didn't sound particularly troubled." (Kikuchi, pg. 23 of Vampire Hunter D Volume 1) I don't know if this quote gives any testament to indicate if this age is true or not for D, as any Hunter on the Frontier, especially Vampire Hunters would know about these things when dealing with Nobles. But this is all just speculation, and could possibly tie in with the whole Mina the Fair thing, as well as the ancient "City of Angels" bit too. I'm quoting your post since its been ages since I've posted due to no internet access. I too am hoping that we'll learn more of D's past. I think Armageddon might(hopefully), but even if it doesn't, I'm sure I'll still love it anyway. At AX this weekend, I came across book 14(which I can still not find in stores and I hate buying things online). I couldn't get it though. I had run out of cash sadly. '"-you were doing the same thing all over again here, weren't you?" D asked, resorting to normal words--words ablaze with white-hot rage-- for the first time. Exactly. You see, this was once a computational center for such things. Over the course of three and a half millennia, I conducted countless experiments and all ended in failure. All the by-products were erased.The scene changed. D was surrounded by strange-looking creatures. Though clearly reminiscent of human beings, they were such weird creatures. Craniums swollen, limbs twisted, eyes glittering like those of a cat. Their whole bodies were mantled in fur. Infants cried feebly. D realized each of them possessed an unimaginable strength. He saw their power. Every last one of them could operate night and day, without sleep. They could breathe in a vacuum, too. they could swim freely underwater, and their cells could regenerate from even fatal blows. They were the pinnacle of biological evolution. However, a sole drawback brought death upon them. The accursed deed-the need to drink blood. That was the reason they were erased. Hundreds of thousands of them, still infants and unable to offer any protest, were buried in the darkness for all time.' (Raiser of Gales, pg 176). Thats the part I was talking about. ^^; Honestly, this was probably the only part I enjoyed of book two, seeing as its really the only thing that got me curious as I was reading it. I've been thinking, or rather, wondering. If the Sacred Ancestor finally found out how to do what he was trying to do for so long(D was the product of this as has been said before in the books), why didn't he continue with it, if he finally achieved his goal? I can't help but wonder if it had something to do with Mina the Fair at all, because in Raiser of Gales, Lina and the others were products of later failed experiments. D had asked, "Why did you do all these things?"(pg 176) and got this reply. In the pursuit of possibility. There were more ten years ago. But it all ended in failure.(pg 176) The ones 'ten years ago' are Lina, Cuore, Tajeel, and Lukas Meyer. It seems to a point that they were used for what I think is the same things, a "New Nobility" I believe it was put somewhere, though I don't recall where, possibly Pale Fallen Angel, where the rumors of the Sacred Ancestor were mentioned as well, and the baron had something done to him as well, though in the end, he was a failure too. (I loved the baron. ;~; He was pretty cool.) I could just be ranting, but what if something happened to Mina the Fair, so the Sacred Ancestor has to start over, even though he had D to show for his work? I feel I'm making no sense at all. It could just be another experiment that happened to some of the others, and not the mixing of the races thats been mentioned quite a bit. Off topic: I've never heard of it actually. o_o As for Doctor Who, I started off with the David Tennant. I didn't like Martha, Rose was alright, but I loved 10's final companion, Donna. She was more like the best friend keeping him in line rather than a love interest. Plus, she had a great personality, so she was easy to like. The 11th Doctor, played by Matt Smith, is for sure a rival for Tennant. He just finished his first season, and I must say, I really do like him. If you want a good plot and a decent male companion(half of the episodes of series 5), I'd recommend it, though not everyone loves the actual companion, Amy Pond. o_o;; The Empty Child scared me when I first watched it for some reason. I joke around about it though now. My friend was going around last weekend at AX saying to every person in a gas mask, "are you my mummy?" One person got irritated with her, and kind of scared, but then a random person walking by(she knew about Doctor Who) shouted "tell her yes and she'll stop". We had to explain to him after. ^^;
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:07 pm
That's quite alright. Oh, you went to Anime Expo? I would like to attend some day, although I don't live anywhere near California-- I live in Canada... xD I've been meaning to buy the fourteenth volume, but it hasn't come out yet, and I really need to get the next volume of the manga before there's no more in stores.
I've been thinking about how D was the Sacred Ancestor's only success, and it came to me that perhaps, if Mina the Fair is indeed D's mother, then the only reason would be love. It seems kind of weird, especially in the setting of the books. But maybe it's a reason, and perhaps there's another reason to go along with it and whatnot, but I can't think of them at the moment.
I'm also wondering when D-Armageddon will be released, as I'm anxious to read that one. I heard that it was going to be a collection of short stories, just like Dark Nocturne. In any case, each book tells a little bit of D's past, so it's fun to wait and see how the puzzle turns out.
Oh she did that? I would assume that people would get annoyed with being asked "Are you my mummy?" all the time. It would have been difficult to explain to those who haven't heard of the series before.
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:49 pm
Yeah, I went. Two hour drive up there in a packed car(after missing our train), but it was worth it. And wow. o_o Canada is pretty cool though. I've always wanted to visit there someday.
I'm planning to get it once I have some money again. I really would like to read it soon. ^^; And I've purchased the first volume of the manga. Its pretty good, but I'm going to wait until I get some other books on my list before I get the rest.
That could be it. Yes, it does seem weird, but at the same time, its does fit in a way...
I'm anxious to read it as well, though I'm sure it will be a long time until all of us English readers will be able to enjoy it. That would be cool though if it is like Dark Nocturne. I liked that one, since it wasn't the normal novel length that we regularly get.
And yeah. That one guy was annoyed. ^^; He even asked if he could shoot her. I have a picture of him pointing his gun at her, but I still need to upload it. @_@
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:51 pm
Two hours is a packed car doesn't sound fun. The most amount of time I've spent in a car was sixteen hours, driving to Prince Edward Island with a family of six people, at the time. I'd think the train, in both our situations would have been better. xD
I usually buy the novels and manga as they come out, but I've been low on money lately. I would put some aside to get them whenever I can go downtown to the bookstore. I'm enjoying the manga, and the art style too. I was really sad that D didn't go back and visit Doris when she was mentioned in the fourth book. It gets me every time when I read that scene.
I think the Sacred Ancestor does love D very much, and for this, I can't see him as the main antagonist. Despite all he's done in order to create a new species of vampires, I can't seem to wrap the idea that he's the bad guy. Somewhere, I know he's ashamed for sacrificing all those humans for the greater good, or the ends justify the means. Just like how we have test centres and all sorts of animals are taken and being tested on with new products before used on humans. He's a tragic hero, just like our D.
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:00 pm
I've done a full day with 10 in a small van. xD With luggage. whitewater Rafting trip with my church in the 8th grade, or the California northern border.
We had no choice but to drive. It was 7:30 am, and the next train wouldn't come till 3pm.
That makes sense, but considering the fact that by what I've read it seems D hates him, he's been thrust into what seems to be the main antagonist position. I can't picture him as the bad guy though either. Like in Mysterious Journey to the North Sea, when Su-In is telling D how the rule of the Florence Nobility came to an end, she says.."One day, a man with more power than even the Nobility came on a ship, brought all the Nobles together in the square, and upbraided them for their cruel misdeeds. When the angry Nobles mounted their battle chariots and charged the man, he not only blew away their war machines but also ripped their very homes from the ground with a single flourish of his cape. It's said that the frightened Nobility, with one exception, all fled the area..... His name was Baron Meinster. ..... At any rate, he alone defied the commands of the mighty traveler. The battle came the day after the other Nobles left, and it took place at Meinster's castle. After a conflict that reduced the homes of the Nobles to rubble instantly, wiped out all animal life, and even changed the shape of mountains, Meinster was defeated and his corpse was cast into the sea for all eternity after measures had been taken to ensure he would never return to dry land again.
...But thanks to that legendary traveler in black, that never happened again. The story goes that after that, he wiped out almost all of the sea monsters so that humans could dwell near the shore, and he released the people from the Nobility's control before he left. Ultimately, we never did learn who he was or where he was from. Say, D-- you don't suppose he was some relative of yours or something, do you?"(part 1, pg 104-105)
Then later,
"Now its my turn to ask a question. Who are you?" said D. "I saw the portrait in the village's museum. The lord of Castle Meinster didn't have your face. But the curator of the museum told me another story. I'll see if you can confirm what she said. Don't you know me, Meinster?" D said, his eyes reflecting the image of the man.
And the man's pupils reflected D. His cloudy eyes called to mind those of a dead fish;they began to fill with a spark of recognition--and hatred.
"Yes, I believe I do," the man said. "Did you think I could forget? after I was not only hurled into that pit and had my own fortress destroyed, but then had the fruits of my research stolen from me... And it was you who did all that?!"
....
"I'm not saying," the Hunter replied, "and it will make no difference when you're dead." (part 2, pg. 61)
It is possible that it was D back then, but for some reason, if it had been, I'm sure he would have said something. But instead, he's not saying. Why is that? It could have been his father...
Its made known by the books that D looks exactly(or almost) like his father, and even in Twin-Shadow Knight was mistaken at first to be the Sacred Ancestor by those traveling the Highway of the Dead.
"You're..." she muttered once more, shaking her head and adding sadly, "No, I'm mistaken.. But why... Why do you look exactly like he does?"(Pg. 261)
Then, from left hand,
"..Ask no more D. want to know what kind of man he is? Look. The eyes of tens of thousands of people traveling the highway hold the same loving glow as the girl's. Could any other Noble earn the same?" (Pg. 264)
From the other victims traveling the highway..
"Say," someone called out before long."Isn't that him?"
"Yes," someone else replied. "Yes, it's him. Hey, everyone! He is here!"
That cry became a wave spreading out in all directions.
Savena's wagon halted. The throng to the fore and the rear, to the left and the right had brought it to a sudden stop.
"It's him."
"It's him."
"It's him."
They called out repeatedly, but mixed with those were other cries.
"Let me be by your side."
"Me!"
"Pick me!"
"I am the one for you!"(Pg. 264)
I agree, he is indeed tragic, but I have yet to decide about the hero part. ^^;
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:47 pm
Urgh-- I don't think I could hold my own for that long in such a confined space. Yeah, that does seem like a long time to wait for the train.
I was also quite curious about that bit too. Had it been D that took down all those Nobles and whatnot, but then again, D doesn't wear a cape, well, not that we know of in any case. Even in Tale of the Dead Town, the mayor said that D looked like a great personage that came aboard the town sometime ago.
There have been many cases in Pale Fallen Angels, most of which come from Vlad Balazs, which he states that he is certain that D is the Great One's son. It's kind of amusing to see all these characters link D and the Sacred Ancestor and claim that he's his son. It's almost like a broken record being played in each volume, but it just adds to the mystery of it all.
I've picked up The Pilgrimage of the Sacred and the Profane-- what did you think of it? I get the impression that Tae could be another version of Mina, seeing as *spoiler* she's pregnant with a dhampir child. I'm not sure if the father is the Noble that was discussed in the book, or if it was the Sacred Ancestor, but seeing as it was a vampire, do you think her child could be another success? It's been a while since I last picked up this volume, so I'm getting re-acquainted with the characters.
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