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Updated 5:00pm 9/5:
The new fish (Enki) drops a box that contains new formulas + components, all farmable.

Updated 7:00pm 9/2:
New low level formulas in Bifrost. Also, a new dev notice:

Quote:
A baker's dozen of new formulas has been released into the Bifrost. These formulas use common components, and if you are a zOMG player you will be well situated (hint, hint).

Also, more stuff on alchemy (and please pass this along to those interested):
  • The feedback thread has been moved from Site Feedback to the Alchemy Forum
  • Users were asking for more formulas that were attainable with common, farmable components. The formulas we've released today should hopefully provide that, and we are also releasing new formulas on Tuesday that will (also) use farmable components.
  • We definitely heard the feedback about the various RIG formulas. We will take a look at them; it is likely that any changes will be in the form of an alternate path added to the formula.
  • One key issue here is that many users were concerned with the destruction of limited items. We are working on something that will re-release "endangered" components consumed through alchemy back into the wild, probably through some mix of the marketplace and dumpster diving.
  • Any marketplace releases would be on a one-week bid placed by an NPC -- hopefully this will exert downward pressure on the prices.
  • Using DD would make the items available even to those users that don't have a lot of gold.

More details on this next week, when we can have the writers craft our random napkins into the semblance of English.

As always, your feedback is appreciated.


Updated 2:00pm 8/30:
New formula available in Bifrost!

Updated 6:41pm 8/29:
Please see the latest announcement.

Updated 11:08pm (ongoing)
Will be inserting quotes from the thread.

Link
Panagrammic
Yeah, the term "hard-core" has been problematic, so let me see if this helps:

There are temporary shortages now, but over time plenty of components will be available for anyone that wants to advance in alchemy. (Note that there may be limited components for some of the formulas -- the Pie Hard formula is a limited run component -- but for the most part you'll find that the components for the majority of formulas will be available on an ongoing basis).

However, we have the feeling that only a small percentage of users will end up advancing very far in alchemy, since it takes real work to find out about the right formulas, gather the ingredients, so on and so forth. Many of these users will be hard-core -- not by virtue of cash spent or items amassed, but simply because it's only the most dedicated users that will bother to go to the effort.

We do tweak DC / giftboxes / probabilities on an ongoing basis to make sure that there is enough liquidity in the marketplace -- so if demand suddenly shot up we would be able to compensate.

Prusset
Currently the small amount of users interest in Alchemy can be attributed to the fact that this is all blowing over badly. What happens when interest increases? Do you want this feature to be accessible to all middle class Gaians? I know you've stated it's for "hard-core" Gaians, but even those who fit your definition of being a "hard-core" Gaian find the system inaccessible. Both rich and devoted find this feature flat out unusable.

If "Hard-core" Gaians are the ones who wish to participate in all facets of Gaia, shouldn't there be enough of the items used in formulas to support everyone who wants to try?

I know you said users determine prices, but Gaia determines availability. By keeping alchemy items rare, you're causing items to inflate because there isn't competition amongst many users to sell the item.

I guess my question is, how many people do you intend to allow to use this system? Everyone who's willing? Or the select elite with the funds?


Link
pepper-tea
Nikki Rydia
Certain RIG items couldn't be re-released! (Like Lucky and Milk, I mean c'mon). I cannot confirm if Sherbet has been re-released before, but regardless it is a limited item (bought with cash), which is why I bring it up.

I don't particularly care for Alchemy, I will try it if I wish, but right now I am far too passionate about this certain item to pay it any mind.


Lucky, Milk are both still obtainable in the current CI, and have been obtainable in the monthly CIs since their release. Sherbet, if he isn't available in the current CI (I don't work on them so I can't say for certain) then he will be in future CIs, and/or be craftable. I can be certain about that because that is required of all items used in alchemy.


Link
pepper-tea
Savaille
"How are we supposed to know when Gaia deems it "necessary" to re-release some of these cash shop items? When their average prices double/triple/etc for an extended period of time? When a certain recipe is no longer used because people refuse to pay MP prices for the ingredients? I'm honestly curious, because until Gaia releases more of the cs ingredients the prices will inflate as the supply dwindles.
Maybe a scheduled re-release date every so often would help with keeping the MP at least a little balanced?"

Sorry for the repost, but I figured it'd be better to do that rather than try to type up something coherent at this time of night.

I understand that there will be multiple ways to craft an item, but my concern stems from the fact that the MP stability of the component CS items will potentially be all over the place.

[ edit ]
Are they only going to be released through DC? Will this include things like the kitten stars or their alchemy components? :/


CI items are almost always still available in the current CI, especially the rare ones. You can still get kittenstars from Valefor Academy. And we re-release cash shop items all the time. Furthermore many of the rarer items that are being used in formulas are craftable as well. All kittenstar formulas are available, they just haven't been found yet.

A regular re-release of one or a few items sounds interesting. Do you feel that would be beneficial?


Link
pepper-tea
Since many of you are asking about cash items I will try to say a bit about them.

Why do we require cash items? We really wanted to give all of you the ability to create some of those rare cash items you want by collecting more common items. Gaians have long bemoaned the fact that you can get awesome items by only buying a CI and probably not getting what you were trying for. Alchemy gave us an opportunity to put the creation of those rare items into your hands.
Unfortunately, there is no way to justify outright creating an item that was originally sold for cash for free. But just because a formula requires a cash item to create, doesn't mean we expect everyone to go buy it for cash. None of the ingredients we currently use are soulbound, and we encourage you to get them in the way that works best for you (within the TOS of course XD)


Link
Panagrammic
Ah, let me take a swing at this one, at least from an economic point of view.

I apologize for my poor wording if you thought that I was blaming users for our laissez-faire marketplace. (This is perhaps why we should have the writers vet everything, but they are so busy with their alpaca races nowadays). The point I was trying to make there is that, to some extent, the pricing of the items is determined by intangible factors that the users must determine for themselves. There are items with equivalent rarities that differ in price by more than 10x.

I'd also like to point out that item alchemy by design is strictly a gold sink, and, as such, deflationary. However, it has definitely caused spikes upward in prices. This is a temporary -- since we have an ever increasing supply of components and only a small percentage of users that have interest in alchemy, you'll find that the prices will become much more reasonable.

You don't have to worry about causing inflation by participating in the market -- that is actually deflationary. We understand if you find the price prohibitive right now, but that situation will correct soon.

Recite Your Sins
I am a little offended that you blame the users when using the "laizze faire" market. "So, if you see a formula and are thinking to yourself, "There is no way that is worth it," then we suggest that you don't make that formula." Ultimately, when they released this new feature, they didn't release it with the intention of not being able to use it. You put the blame soley on the gaian population by saying we are the one driving up the prices using a faulty system they created for the purpose of creating new items, with current limited to begin with. Users obviously want the newer items, but the inflation of the components needed for these formulas is the fundamental problem of what is undoubtly a current broken Alchemy system. So, blame the users, for a system that was created for the destruction of rare items, because of a system that was created for it's intented use.

It's not fair to put out a system you want Gaians to use, knowing it will cause inflation of the items hindering more Gaians from utilitizing the system. Considering almost every single formula out there for now is currently "not worth making", should we just abandon the system to help decrease this inflation it's caused? Either we quit making things that aren't worth making ( abandon alchemy and leave it to collect dust), or buy up the items, decrease the supply with the destruction of the items, and increase inflation. So, don't use this "really cool system", or "cause and contribute to inflation"? Those are some fantastic choices there, thank you.


Link
pepper-tea
Terrible Storm Coming
pepper-tea
Hello!

There is a lot of confusion going around, and I wanted to check up on what is still confusing everyone. I'll try to answer some questions the best I can


Yay! Thank you Pepper.

I think one of the main concerns is about limited availability items like the Double Complete Rainbow and whether they will be re-granted so we can use them or will they simply go extinct, leaving formulas entirely useless?


Like it has been said several times, we were careful not to include anything that we couldn't make available again if needed. Double Complete Rainbow and Starmony are a good example. You can now find both in Daily Chance. The point isn't to make items extinct! We just wanted you to be able to put those items to work.


Link
pepper-tea
Lemonade-Skittles
Hi Pepper! I have one, maybe you know a little bit about it? As is, a lot of alchemy components (especially the sort unique to alchemy) seem to come from the Daily Chance and Giftboxes. Do you know if there are plans to tie those items to the rest of Gaia, like zOMG or towns or word bump? Or are those often essential items going to be tied to luck forever. D: I am a very unlucky person.


There are certainly plans to implement components in more areas of the site!
However, it will be different sets of components for each area. This means, for example, if you like to play zOMG, you will be able to collect the components available in zOMG and either use them yourself, sell them to other users for gold, or trade them for the components you need. And obviously being a zOMG player doesn't bar you from collecting them yourself from giftboxes and Daily Chance.


Link

pepper-tea
Sinivar

There's only one thing I want to know if you could ask them.

Are they willing to change the set-up of Alchemy based on this feedback? All I want to know is if these decisions are set in stone or if they would be willing to consider some of the suggested alternate methods and maybe even debate with us about their choices to see if we can come to an understanding?

And if you could tell them please that none of us mean to offend them or say this was a bad idea all around or that they're bad people for doing it. We just very very much want to help remove the few roadblocks that keep us from adoring this feature for the rest of the many years we stay on Gaia to enjoy it and making it the shining star of the site.



We can't change the existing formulas due to many users already working on them, but we are already working on an update to add some lower level formulas that can be created using some specific common inventory clogs XD

I am really glad that you seem to enjoy the idea of the feature. We are definitely going to work on making the entry a bit more accessible, while keeping the balance of making the effort that you put into crafting worth it.


Updated 7:09pm
Will be offline for a few hours for dinner, but there may be edits in OP by other Gaia staff as well -- will try to catch up tonight and make sure that at least the high level stuff is addressed. Thanks for your feedback.

Updated 6:57pm
While people work on the answers, let me make a first pass at some of the common high-level questions:

Why Use Limited-Release Items?
There are two types of cash items: those that we can't re-release (i.e., MCs) and those that we can. The formulas that use cash items are all using items that we can re-release as necessary, so they are not inherently limited.

Why Aren't All The Formulas Available?
We're releasing them in the giftboxes and other random events, so they are slowly coming out on the site -- about 10k - 15k formulas are being given out a day. We've been tweaking the probabilities up.

Why Aren't All The Components Available?
Some of the components are built from other alchemical formulas, so they will be rare/expensive until the alchemy sub-economy starts to get going; some are provided as the result of on-site activities (zOMG), so they'll be rare until more people start providing them; and some are being dropped in daily chance / gift boxes / whatnot, so they will get progressively more common over time.

Why Not Release Everything At Once!!!
We wanted to do a slow release for a number of reasons; one was to keep an eye on server load (the item databases are some of the heaviest used on the site), and the other was to keep an eye on play balance. If we released everything at once we wouldn't be able to do as much tweaking.

We don't plan on changing existing formulas (it wouldn't be fair to people that had used that formula), but we will offer multiple paths to items, and will adjust formulas as necessary.

Updated 6:07pm
Thanks for the questions! We're going through the top tipped questions now and writing responses -- we'll update OP.

Original
This is the official Q&A thread for Alchemy.

Please check the questions in the thread before posting yours. As a quick hack, we're using tips as your way to "upvote" the questions, and we'll be looking at the questions from the most-tipped posts first in picking the first ones to answer. (This isn't ideal, since it costs 25 gold, but we're hoping that this is not prohibitive to most users).

Some color on this first...

Alchemy As A Long Term Feature
Alchemy is not meant to be a one-week quest. It's something that has implications throughout the site, and is something that we plan on updating on an ongoing basis. The mechanics of alchemy we're comfortable with (basically: formula + components + gold = new item), but we'll be releasing formulas and components on an ongoing basis.

Why Is It So Confusing?
Partly, what we wanted to do was make alchemy an exploration / discovery thing, where the users cooperate to figure out the best ways to craft things. It seems like many users want, right now, a clear roadmap to backwings and every formula or component that is involved, and we certainly understand that sentiment, but from our point of view we actually want users to discover it on their own.

This has led to some confusion, and some of the frustrations with alchemy are probably the result of assumptions about where we are going with this, so we wanted to try and clear them up.

Backwings As The Ultimate Goal
So, alchemy is not just a way of delivering backwings -- it's meant to be an entire crafting system. Metaphorically, it's not just one tree that leads to backwings, but is instead a forest. Viewed from that angle, it's important to realize that not every formula is involved in backwings, since backwings are just one of the things that can be crafted.

So, while we do have some formulas that use cash items, those formulas are not required for backwings -- and, in fact, the backwing tree has no cash shop items. It will be available to anyone that is willing to put in the time.

(However, we would mention here that the first backwings will be prohibitively expensive, because the underlying crafting economy will just be starting up. So, if you want to have the first pair of backwings on the site, you'll pay much much more than someone that decides to go after them 3 months later. Fortunately, backwings are not a limited item, so someone else getting them first does not in any way impede your ability to get them).

Marketplace Fluctuations
Given the initial rush into the marketplace, any component used in the first recipes would have inflated -- if we had used starter polos those would now be going for Rufus-level prices.

It's important not to look at the first marketplace prices and assume that those are static. As more supply is available, prices will drop.

Not every formula will produce an item more valuable on the marketplace than the constituent components. For one, we've always had believed in a laissez-faire marketplace. We'd prefer to let the user determine if cost of making an item is worth it to them, whether as an investment or because it's the perfect thing to go with their outfit.

So, if you see a formula and are thinking to yourself, "There is no way that is worth it," then we suggest that you don't make that formula. Don't feel like you have to spend millions of gold to do that formula because it's the only formula you can see. There will be many many formulas and many many ways to increase your level.

Why Not Make Every Component Available In The Gold Shop?
Because we want many components to be something that you have to do on the site -- as in, play zOMG, play BG, play Word Bump, so on and so forth. This doesn't mean the components are soul bound, but does mean that an actual user had to go and do that activity in order for that component to exist. Components from BG and zOMG are used in formulas today, and there will be more such formulas to come.

Hardcore Users
One of the devs mentioned that backwings would be mostly for the "hardcore" users, and it seemed like people assumed that hardcore meant a) on the site for a long time, or b) had paid a lot of cash, neither of which is actually the case.

(The definition of hardcore is a fuzzy one, but anecdotally, let me give you an example: we had Spring Cleaning last year, where people could vote / post about the bugs that they wanted fixed. Input into the site! Provide feedback on features you wanted! Vote on the proposals! The percentage of people on the site overall that participated? About 3% -- most of those users are probably hardcore users.)

So, if someone wants to take the effort to make the backwings, it is eminently doable and achievable for all -- but taking the effort to work through the recipes, and learn about alchemy, and leveling up, is something that only a small percentage of users will do.

Revered Connoisseur

          Very nice guide.
second


Edit: We need more components heart

Edit 2: thanks for the tips guys heart

Invisible Browser

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c:
Thank you.
This feature really looked interesting, but i knew nothing about it.
I am thinking about trying it out now.

Devout Worshipper

Good guide.

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Chromium Blood
          Very nice guide.

Yay, for backwings not using cash items!! You are the best at customer service!

Now fix the updated inventory pop ups!! They do NOT work for ipad-iphone-itouch users!

Caring Vet

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Thank you for taking the time to create this thread, Pan. I also appreciate you trying to explain what another dev meant by "hardcore users."

However, I still would like to know what the artists were thinking when they created the Aurora Kitten Star.

Dedicated Lover

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Question can we find a way to make Alcehmy go more hand in hand with zOMG! the reason i ask is , The hole system fits better with zOMG! then any other game on gaia yes i know you want all of gaias games to be used more but, im mainly a zOMGaia and zOMG! would be my only reason for going on gaia so. Do you have any real plans on bringing the 2 of them together? (also this wouls help zOMG! in so many more ways like give us oldies something to do and it would get more people to play and fall in love with the game as well as generate more want/need for more content ) {making everyone happy}
I agree! Good guide!

EDIT:
For something so wrong and cheap?

Gambino Medalist

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I don't think I've ever seen the word Backwings used more in an OP ever.
Now please explain this, taking form the Dev's Journal:

Quote:
There are many hard-to-find items that were available before Alchemy, but will become more rare as they are destroyed by the Alchemy conversion. This is maybe the most controversial part of Alchemy. These items (some of which were low-frequency CI / RIG resultant items) will become more rare than they were before. This, as I understand it, was intentional.


Is it intentional for certain items to become extinct due to the need and destruction of them?
ALSO, Why the excessive amounts of ingredents?
You don't need 10 pounds of Flour to make one Pie.

Invisible Man-Lover

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