Crush Card Virus.. Overhyped/OverPriced?

[Jazz Turnabout]

Honest ends games as well. More frequently than Crush Card Virus, in fact.  

[Matt Blue]

I would be willing to say that the activation of CCV is far more devastating to most players then the activation of Honest.

Anyone feel like disputing that? Because it's essentially fact, unless you run Gadgets or Sacred Phoenix.

Honest is essentially just a 1-for-1 that causes a **** load of burn damage, with a restriction on it's activation and a restriction on the type of deck you use it in.

CCV, on the other hand, is a card so powerful and disruptive, in the past decks such as GB have added in enough targets for the off chance that they would get to use it. I've never seen GB splash lights that don't belong there for the sake of "Abusing" Honest.  

[Jazz Turnabout]

And why would they? They've already made the mistake of trying to splash in Crush Card Virus, and it didn't work. Neither of these cards are to just be splashed in any deck.

What's devastating about Crush Card Virus is getting to know you're opponent's hand. Knowledge is a powerful thing, especially if you have the right tribute fodder for the card. Sangan turns it into a +1 to your hand after the -2 from your field, for a -? to your opponent. However, this can backfire. Have you ever seen the face of someone who just played a Crush Card Virus, only to see a hand they can't stop? I have.

What's devastating about Honest is its rulings. Outside of Gladiator Beasts, there is no standard way of dealing with that card. Anyone can use Solemn Judgment, Dark Bribe, or Royal Decree to prevent a Crush Card Virus. There aren't many options you can choose from to stopping Honest. Divine Wrath, that's it. The cards that remove from play; Macro Cosmos, Dimensional Fissure, and Banisher of the Radiance, are simply not cards to be splashed into every side to deal with such a thing, and the preferred side deck of Light-Imprisoning Mirror can't even stop it. So Divine Wrath is your option, a -1 to you for stopping him. But, the other side to Honest is its availability to be recycled. Triple Beckoning Light, and a number of Monster Reincarnations depending on your playing method. The one card that deserves to be a ghost rare in a long time.  

[Matt Blue]

I disagree with the notion that the devastating effect of CCV is peek-a-boo with your opponent's hand, the real advantage is getting a possible +13 (More likely to be a +2 or 3, but that's still pretty powerful), since if seeing your opponent's hand is so ngreat, I suggest Eye of Truth. That's not to say seeing your opponent's hand and monster field ISN'T good, it is, just not the best part of CCV.

What you stated about seeing a hand you can't beat isn't really a minus. I mean, whether you saw it or not, you couldn't beat it. So it has no real bearing on anything.

Honest isn't broken because Honest itself dictates you can only use him in a certain deck. And before you say you can't counter it except with divine Wrath, excuse me while I copy and paste that segment of your argument and apply it to GORZ, a far better card.  

[Jazz Turnabout]

A possible +13, you say. Taking the best tribute possibility, which is Sangan, and the best opportunity for a Crush Card Virus, turn 1, then it will appear as so:

Start with 5 cards, draw the 6th. +1 to hand, for turn.
Set Sangan and Crush Card Virus. -2 to hand, +2 to field.
End.

When you flip that Crush Card Virus, you get a -2 to field. Sangan gets you a +1 to the hand. Now in the interval of 3 turns in the best situation possible for Crush Card Virus, the opponent will draw a total of 8 cards. Not 13. You're making the assumption that 13 monsters will be hit; a full field of 5, a hand full of 6, and two more draws of monsters that can be hit by Crush Card Virus. That's an extreme assumption, and a rather bad one. To have an 8 card draw consistent of monsters that Crush Card Virus can destroy means that the one being hit by the card is doing something wrong; with his deck, his shuffling, etc.. Even then, it's not a +13, due to the -2 from your field. If the tributed monster is Sangan, then it's a +12. At the maximum possibility. Also, by a full field of monsters being in front of you, they already have a field set, and the most probable situation they have is the means to stop Crush Card Virus. What of their backrow? A Solemn Judgment has to show up sometime. But following along with your example of all of your opponent's cards being monsters, then one with a brain would know that one of them is Stardust Dragon.

Yes, it is a minus if you didn't get any targets with the effect of Crush Card Virus. Or are you already forgetting that you had to play a card with a tribute cost? Two cards from the field to the graveyard is a -2. As I was saying, there is benefit of Crush Card Virus, even if it didn't destroy anything. Means of knowing what is at your opponent's disposal. All you have to do is know what to stop, when, and how. If you can't figure it out, then your Crush Card Virus was simply a waste. The real advantage is knowing what is in front of you.

I never said Honest is broken, but if you must bring it to the point then yes, he is. The point being that once the damage step begins and Honest is dropped from the hand, there really is nothing you can do. The confirmation of Honest having the option of priority when you discard him says so. Unless, as I said, you're playing Gladiator Beasts and happen to have a War Chariot set. How hard do you think it is to splash a few Light monsters into the mix of a rogue deck? Thunder King would like to have a word with you. Little City would like to have a word with you. Kuan's Light Undead list would like to have a word with you.

And you go back to Gorz. Why must you burden us all with this nonsense? Here's the difference:

Honest can be played, with a full field or just a single monster. Gorz cannot. And when Gorz is played, how long do you expect him to last on the field? Anyone with a brain would know to prolong the attacks from weakest to strongest, for the possibility of destroying him in battle as well. What card, in battle, would save you a field with Gorz? Oh look, the token is a Light attribute. I can use Honest with him too. Gorz himself will be destroyed; Goyo Guardian, Colossal Fighter, Thought Ruler Archfiend suicide, Red Dragon Archfiend, Dark Armed Dragon, Judgment Dragon, and every Light monster in the game with a helping hand from Honest will kick him away. Outside of battle, as said, Judgment Dragon and Dark Armed Dragon, or even a number of spell and trap support, will rid the field of him. All Gorz has going for him outside of a half-turn stall is as a target for Allure of Darkness. He has his chances of being on the field, but in this format he's rather terrible at staying there.

But yet again, arguing with you is pointless. Being that my friend plays Lightsworn every weekend, and that all of the competition here is Gladiator Beasts and TeleDaD, I don't know a damn thing I'm saying to someone stuck playing LaDD in a Crystal Beast deck.  

[Matt Blue]

I have 5 monsters on my field, 6 cards in hand. I draw. You play CCV. I lose all seven in hand, all 5 on field, and my next three draws for a -15.

You lost CCV and whatever you tributed.

Saying a -13 isn't possible, although it is improbable, is stupid. And the fact that you took time to elaborate on this shows you don't understand MATH.

I never "Assumed" 13 monsters would be hit, if you could read inside these little things (), you would see I said a +2 or 3 was more likely.

You also think Honest is better then Gorz, apparently, which is luls worthy.

And CBs are a casual deck that I have, and I will be ****** before I let you bash on me for playing a casual deck when you can't even perform simple MATH.  

[Jazz Turnabout]

If played during your turn that turn is counted as the first of the three, and then checks your next two draws. You don't seem to know that little ruling.

And it seems you don't know how to calculate the minus from the person playing Crush Card Virus. -1 for playing Crush Card Virus, being that when it resolves it leaves the field, and another -1 for the cost. Being that you would have 5 on the field, 7 in hand, and that Crush Card Virus checks your next two draws for being played during your turn, is a total of -14. Your opponent playing Crush Card Virus and tributing for the cost is -2 to them, which makes it a -12 total. -13 if the cost for Crush Card Virus is Sangan. Who, again, doesn't know math?

Not that it matters. 7 cards in hand with a full field of monsters with an unknown backrow? Means you have nothing you can do, and that you're simply a bad duelist.  

[Matt Blue]

Okay, so?

If you think that Honest is banworthy, it seems to me like your friend just beat you with it using his lightsworn deck too much.

QQ in the corner, then. DAD, CCV, and Gorz are not bamworthy to you but Honest is?

This is the epitome of laughable.  

[Jazz Turnabout]

Please, enlighten me as to when I said anything should be banned.

You're merely shoving words down my throat. I find no need for Honest to be banned or limited in any way. Nor do I feel a need for further penalty on these cards you seem to believe to be "broken". Kuan simply asked you if he should be, since he wins more games than Crush Card Virus.

Once again, arguing with you is pointless. You're just a shining example of a bad duelist.

Before saying anything further, you may wish to check again as to how to spell "banworthy".  

[The Mighty Q]

Damn...people take children's playnig cards to seriously.  

[Rolayler]

I am gonna have to agree with the Nazi-man..dude its just a game lighten up and have fun this isn't life or death. It's one thing to know the rules and how things work but dude...Sieg...your WAY past the point of obsession and worshipping Yugioh as if it were a god  

[The Mighty Q]

Rolayler

I am gonna have to agree with the Nazi-man..dude its just a game lighten up and have fun this isn't life or death. It's one thing to know the rules and how things work but dude...Sieg...your WAY past the point of obsession and worshipping Yugioh as if it were a god

I wouldn't recommend pointing out people. It is just not proper.

Oh and I don't think it's just a game that much as to be nonchalant. I'm one of those people who get really into the game. I'm one of those crackpots that will defend his cards until the bitter end in the name of the Monster Spirits.

Also Sieg does not worship the game as a god. He simply uses his forceful knowledge of it to prove that he is right about what he says. He holds no punches.  

[Rolayler]

No I said he was past the point...it seems like he is man I wouldn't be surprised if he memorized every single card >.> and when I am playing it I will get into it and catch people on their errors yet when I am not I want to play it yea I will correct people on rules if I see them doing something wrong thats on the field-shrugs-thats it  

[Jazz Turnabout]

Would you like for me to burn one of these gods that I worship so much? Preferably something of value? What a surprise, that I do enjoy this game. It's a rather large bonus that, since I know what is and will be of popular use, it's money to my pocket.

I also enjoy arguing. It gets my blood pumping in the morning.

Or are you simply targeting me due to being upset over me correcting your errors in the little time you've been here?  

[Matt Blue]

Sieg Selwyn

I never said Honest is broken, but if you must bring it to the point then yes, he is.

... So, what you're saying is, broken cards shouldn't be banned?