Free Will

[too2sweet]

So in general we are told we should not mess around with the "free will" of others, and for the most part I think most of us would agree this is a good thing. However is there a point where you think this gets taken to the extreme?

For example... if it was in my power to cast a binding on someone, that would prevent them from committing rape, would it be ok for me to do that? I mean on the one had I'd be saving someone from a horrible crime, but on the other hand I'd definitely be messing with the rapist's "free will" - which one is more important?

What about a simple bit of healing energy thrown someone's way? Or if you know your friend has been having a tough time, is it ok to send them a bit of a pick me up - a little spell to make things go better for them? "Free Will" says they are responsible for making their own day go better, and the theory is that unless they ask us to, we shouldn't interfere, but shouldn't a good friend do all they can to help a friend in need (be it mundane or magical)?

Thoughts, opinions.....  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

I consider someone's free will to be the primary and most important thing. One's mind is one's last freedom; chain the body and the mind remains free. Binding someone in this way chains their mind as well, and I consider that so disgusting it actually makes me feel ill. It's like minority report. Punish an action by taking revenge. If you think someone will commit rape, then apparently they need to talk to someone. Get them help, don't confine their spirit. Of course, if they're about to rape you I'd say you could bind them, but you'd probably get more out of a baseball bat to the side of the head.

The 'fluence is one thing - it's fleeting, momentary. You tip the balance of indicision, call attention, weigh things more to your side. And then it's gone. So is errecting a barrier to make an action more difficult; if they really want to do it, they will do it anyway, but often they'll decide it's too much effort. A binding is another thing. You'd have to have a heat-of-battle type of moment to justify that sort of thing. There are times when does have to do things one considers highly unethical, wrong, awful. It's up to one to decide when that is and what justifies such action, how to deal with that weight upon their conscience and how to make recompense, if necessary.

My big problem with bindings is that so many people seem to think they're ethically fine. "Oh I bound a bully" and so forth. As if such an action were perfectly fine. And then they turn around and go "OMG CURSES ARE SO EVIL KARMA KARMA KARMA".

Sending energy to help someone is different, too. You send the energy, you don't make them use it. They use it, or don't. If you know they're averse to that sort of thing I wouldn't do it just like I wouldn't send a gift to someone I knew didn't want one. Many people, especially friends, get comfort from comments such as "I'll pray for you" or "I'll be thinking of you" as if those thoughts brought tangible help. This is the same sort of deal, except that you do send something - strength, usually, or comfort. Although, it's not an internal thing, in my understanding. You're sending a boost from the outside and it comes across as external, like a walking frame or a blanket is external.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

I usually feel that other's rights end at the tip of my nose.
At the same time, I feel that I need to be a good member of my community. That can make me responsible for stepping up where others cannot.

I also feel that our free will doesn't exist in a vacuum. We infringe on other's free will to ensure safety all the time. We put people who refuse to drive sober behind bars against their will to keep ourselves safe. Parents force their children to take medicine that tastes bad.  

[Silfy_Steller]

In certain cases I think the good over rides the binding. If you bind someone from commiting rape, in the end you're saving someone from rape so I'm sure Kharma wouldn't have a negative effect on you because the bad would be balanced with the good intent. That's just imo though  

[Freyis]

I think this is one of those things where there is a grey area no one will ever completely agree either way on if it is right or not. The example you gave of preventing a rape I could see it being used but if your just doing it to stop someone from bullying you not so much.

I think this is one of those things you have to decide for yourself and then deal with the consequences whether they be good or bad.  

[surukio]

Freyis

I think this is one of those things where there is a grey area no one will ever completely agree either way on if it is right or not. The example you gave of preventing a rape I could see it being used but if your just doing it to stop someone from bullying you not so much.

I think this is one of those things you have to decide for yourself and then deal with the consequences whether they be good or bad.

i have to agree here, i also i have stated before i am a witch, but not wiccan, and have been taught a time or 2 that sometimes [albiet very rarely] there is even a criteria in which you could potentially curse someone if its for their own good to learn from it, but thats what i had been taught, but i don't normally do it cause i tend to think that what they have put out will bite then firmly in the a**...

it all a matter of the counscience of the person doing the binding IMHO  

[great_goddess_Anu]

i think you just gota go with what your consious says. if you can look in on your soul and think your helping someone then do it. i also think though that you cant stop someone from physicaly doing something so i personaly wouldndt bind the rapest with negative incantation but rather bless the people they come into contact with with a positve incantation to keep them safe from the rapest. you xant chang a bad person into a good person through a spell and there is nothing to stop them but there is something to say about the people are being raped. as far as healing someone with out permission goes, you should get permission if its anything major or if you are not sure wether the person would be okay with it but if its nothing to BIG or anything that you know the person would object to then i thinbk that would be okay and ive done that before. these are just my opinions..please, i really hate it when people pick apart my every word and not use them in context and use them to actack me with and call names. TY! mrgreen
Blessed Be! heart  

[Sashaajnin]

Free will is a person's last hope, but only if a person is connected with their free will. In my opinion, free will has three parts, the sub- concious, the concious, and the physical. Physical free will, is the most commonly bound, through chains, cells, and sometimes even your own body. sub- concious and concious free will, are constantly intertwined. The sub-concious free will is a person's demons, sometimes angels, but most times, just demons. The concious free will sees the actions and thought of the sub-concious, but fights to control them. they can't understand why they do what they do. I believe that it is ok to bind a persons sub concious free will, and only the sub- concious free will, IF the concious free will is trying to, but can't control the sub- concious free will.
In other words, if the rapist wants to stop raping people, but he can't because of some mental problem, its ok. If the rapist wants to be a rapist, there is nothing you can do but call the cops, and warn others.  

[Sam Oaken Willow 17]

too2sweet

So in general we are told we should not mess around with the "free will" of others, and for the most part I think most of us would agree this is a good thing. However is there a point where you think this gets taken to the extreme?

For example... if it was in my power to cast a binding on someone, that would prevent them from committing rape, would it be ok for me to do that? I mean on the one had I'd be saving someone from a horrible crime, but on the other hand I'd definitely be messing with the rapist's "free will" - which one is more important?

What about a simple bit of healing energy thrown someone's way? Or if you know your friend has been having a tough time, is it ok to send them a bit of a pick me up - a little spell to make things go better for them? "Free Will" says they are responsible for making their own day go better, and the theory is that unless they ask us to, we shouldn't interfere, but shouldn't a good friend do all they can to help a friend in need (be it mundane or magical)?

Thoughts, opinions.....

I wouldn't really do much of anything (magickal) to take away someone's free will. Even the rapist. The power of choice should always be there.

Now throwing some healing someone's way? Maybe instead one should throw something the other would appreciate his/her way. Then it is still a choice for that other person to smile and laugh about it, or be bitter.  

[mechanical kitsy]

From my perspective.
Honestly, everything interferes with a person's free will, magical or not. Advertisements, teachers, friends, every little thing can influence people.
If I feel it is in a person's better interest, I do it.
I was being bad and doing a love-ish spell, and it kinda worked... He ended up with the girl that was the initial reason his relationship fell apart. I can't stand to see him so depressed.
And heck, what if you're doing a healing spell for a person who wants to be sick, for the attention. Obviously if you do the spell and it works they aren't sick anymore. If they want to be sick, and do things that make them sick, that's their free will.
Any binding is an impediment to free will. I wonder if there's a spell to make people stop smoking. That's a free will that needs to be done away with. Is it okay to kill yourself?
So, almost all magic that has to do with people, is going to interfere with will. Ethics are not something I'm so concerned with when I'm thinking for the better of people.
Also, it is the general population's opinion around here to castrate rapists. So if you try to bind them, aren't you doing them a favor? And why would you need to bind them if you knew who they were? If you're scared of them get a restraining order, pepper spray, and a good martial arts defense teacher. If you know they're a rapist tell the cops. Magic won't solve life's problems.
...done...
Plus most of the people around here do stupid things with their free will. So should I feel bad? They'll never know.