Ask a Socialist!

[Symorin]

So, I think I've already established myself as one of the lone "Socialists" ( well, a more proper definition is "Social Democrat" ) on this forum, now I feel it's time to answer some questions.

Why am I making this thread? Well it's because I'm sure most people are sick of the "who are you voting for?" threads. ( Obama wins every time. That was true in the last poll, and the poll before that, and the poll before that, and before that, etc... You don't need to make another poll to figure that out. )

So, if you want to learn why I believe larger government, not smaller, and a more regulated market is a good thing, just feel free to ask. ^_^

[Azkeel]

Do you believe it is right for my money to be taken away at gun point to help others in need when I myself am already a charitable person helping others?

[Divine_Malevolence]

Symorin

( Obama wins every time. That was true in the last poll, and the poll before that, and the poll before that, and before that, etc... You don't need to make another poll to figure that out. )

Doesn't he usually get around double the votes that Romney gets?

[Symorin]

YahuShalum

Do you believe it is right for my money to be taken away at gun point to help others in need when I myself am already a charitable person helping others?

Of course not! Socialism doesn't inherently involve violence!

True Socialism needs to be democratic, and free from the "give me your stuff or else" ideology, it's what separates us from common thieves.

Let me ask a question in return.

Do you believe that it's right for a student to practically sell their soul to their work, studying day and night, forsaking a social life, all in the favor of increasing their knowledge... Then, when they finally submit an application to an Ivy league university, they can't go because their parents don't have enough money to afford it?

I don't know you, I can't "judge" you based on your charity, but have you ever heard the saying: "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime."? Sure, you may have billionaires donate a million or two to charity, but if they were merely taxed more (and if those taxes went to things like healthcare and education, rather than the military) then they wouldn't have to be so charitable, unless they were truly feeling extra generous.

If higher taxes were used to make colleges free/better stocked in goods, then that student wouldn't have to be rejected from an Ivy League university because their parents cant pay. That student would be able to go to their "dream college" and use his education to, perhaps, study medicine and cure cancer, or maybe engineering and develop more affordable, eco friendly methods of transportation.

By privatizing certain necessary things such as Education or Healthcare, we're crippling the amount of truly smart, educated people in the country by keeping them from getting a good education and working to improve things.

[Azkeel]

Symorin

YahuShalum

Do you believe it is right for my money to be taken away at gun point to help others in need when I myself am already a charitable person helping others?

Of course not! Socialism doesn't inherently involve violence!

True Socialism needs to be democratic, and free from the "give me your stuff or else" ideology, it's what separates us from common thieves.

Let me ask a question in return.

Do you believe that it's right for a student to practically sell their soul to their work, studying day and night, forsaking a social life, all in the favor of increasing their knowledge... Then, when they finally submit an application to an Ivy league university, they can't go because their parents don't have enough money to afford it?

I don't know you, I can't "judge" you based on your charity, but have you ever heard the saying: "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime."? Sure, you may have billionaires donate a million or two to charity, but if they were merely taxed more (and if those taxes went to things like healthcare and education, rather than the military) then they wouldn't have to be so charitable, unless they were truly feeling extra generous.

If higher taxes were used to make colleges free/better stocked in goods, then that student wouldn't have to be rejected from an Ivy League university because their parents cant pay. That student would be able to go to their "dream college" and use his education to, perhaps, study medicine and cure cancer, or maybe engineering and develop more affordable, eco friendly methods of transportation.

By privatizing certain necessary things such as Education or Healthcare, we're crippling the amount of truly smart, educated people in the country by keeping them from getting a good education and working to improve things.

You believe the public school system actually works? That's a socialist system. From k-12 that's a socialist system. Do children come out more intelligent? Schools don't make people more intelligent they're used to indoctrinate. And give you a piece of paper saying you're smart when in fact you're just as dumb as ever but now you're more inclined towards their thinking rather then free thinking and critical thinking. They will always teach you 1+1=2 When i can logically say 1+1=3 but I am wrong because they said so. (1+1=3 think of two humans having a child)

County hospitals are considered socialist. Have you ever worked in one? Have you seen how the patients are treated? I have, and it's not pretty.

In socialist systems the quality tends to dramatically decline. Tell me do you actually believe the government is in it for your best interest when they tell you fluoride in the water is safe?

Government itself is inherently violent and you want more of it. It's a monopoly on violence if anything.

[Symorin]

YahuShalum

You believe the public school system actually works? That's a socialist system. From k-12 that's a socialist system. Do children come out more intelligent? Schools don't make people more intelligent they're used to indoctrinate. And give you a piece of paper saying you're smart when in fact you're just as dumb as ever but now you're more inclined towards their thinking rather then free thinking and critical thinking. They will always teach you 1+1=2 When i can logically say 1+1=3 but I am wrong because they said so. (1+1=3 think of two humans having a child)

County hospitals are considered socialist. Have you ever worked in one? Have you seen how the patients are treated? I have, and it's not pretty.

In socialist systems the quality tends to dramatically decline. Tell me do you actually believe the government is in it for your best interest when they tell you fluoride in the water is safe?

Government itself is inherently violent and you want more of it. It's a monopoly on violence if anything.

All of those things you're arguing against (with the exception of fluoridated water... Which I don't really understand what people freak out over) are the result of a government so keen on "The Free Market" that it ignores the socialist aspects of it's society.

We spend 700 billion dollars on military spending. That's MUCH MORE than the four other nations with the highest military spending combined. If we were to find a way to shave off at least 100 billion dollars, the problems in our a school system would be mostly fixed.

Secondly, you could say 1 + 1 = 3 by arguing the "two humans and a baby" thing... But from a numerical standpoint you're factually wrong. Teaching kids to ignore, cold, hard, numbered facts would just ruin our education system even more. Giving a kid a reward for saying "1 plus 1 equals 3" just does what you say is wrong with this school system: It makes kids believe they're smart when they're dumb as ever.

Are you saying we should "fix" hospitals by privatizing them? By making saving your life a greed based business? Of all the things you mentioned, that has the highest chance of leading to a complete collapse of society. If organ donations were compulsory after death, and if the government could motivate more people to become doctors by raising the average wages of doctors, then our hospital system would be fixed. But instead of doing that, the government has been taxing the lower classes of society more so the higher classes have to pay less, making it harder and harder for people to get a decent education.

I disagree with you on one fundamental principle: That government is based off of violence. Government is based off of two things: Liberty and Protection. The government regulates things, it oversees things, and bans things to keep our liberty safe and sound. What's more "free", a government that allows business to dump trash and pollution anywhere (effectively destroying the environment and filling the skies with smog and poisonous gasses) or a government that regulates pollution, freeing you from the need to go outside wearing a gas mask, freeing you of the need to stay inside so you don't breath too much ash?

A world without government, is a world without freedom. Look at Somalia if you wish to see what this "freedom" is like. It's been proven time and again that a society with less regulation and "freer" markets usually ends up decreasing the amount of freedoms you can enjoy in life.

[Divine_Malevolence]

YahuShalum

Schools don't make people more intelligent they're used to indoctrinate. And give you a piece of paper saying you're smart when in fact you're just as dumb as ever but now you're more inclined towards their thinking rather then free thinking and critical thinking.

I will agree with this.
The school system is basically a day care used to force opinions into your head. The fact that some people learn things is an unintended yet positive side effect.
If we really wanted to educate people we'd be using something many times more efficient, that focuses less on busywork and asskissing and more on actual problem solving and researching.

[ZyuZyu]

An American socialist?
Lies.

[Symorin]

Divine_Malevolence

YahuShalum

Schools don't make people more intelligent they're used to indoctrinate. And give you a piece of paper saying you're smart when in fact you're just as dumb as ever but now you're more inclined towards their thinking rather then free thinking and critical thinking.

I will agree with this.
The school system is basically a day care used to force opinions into your head. The fact that some people learn things is an unintended yet positive side effect.
If we really wanted to educate people we'd be using something many times more efficient, that focuses less on busywork and asskissing and more on actual problem solving and researching.

Germany has an interesting system in some parts of it where they focus less on the "work" side of things and more on the "learning" side. People spend longer school hours there, but in return they don't have homework.

Personally, I think that schools need to be a bit more research based, encourage the students to learn on their own, correct what mistakes they might have, allow them to form an interest in the subject of their own volition. Students need to be challenged by work, and not in a "man this is so hard" sense but in a "do I really believe this is good?" sense. For english classes, they could teach students to write their own stories. For History, make it a story telling experience. No, I don't mean make it fictional, but present it in a way that actually interests children. If you have more boy students, play up the battles and "awesomeness" of the revolutionary war. If you have more female students, play up the fantasy and romanticism of the colonial period.

Schools need reform, I agree on that. The first step, however, is getting students genuinely interested in subjects

[Symorin]

ZyuZyu

An American socialist?
Lies.

Nope, I'm an American Socialist alright.

Four years ago, during Obama's election, the right wing was throwing one of it's "hissy fits" over socialism and how it'll ruin this "great country" and so on. Well, after enduring it for years, I finally got bored one night and decided to learn about socialism. I learned about it, communism, and even a bit about anarchy. At first, I thought most of the stuff was... Well, nothing I wanted to be a part of... But then I learned about Social Democracy.

I wont lie. It was almost eye opening. It was just a system that made so much sense, that did so much good, I was genuinely amazed by it. After seeing it succeed so well in Europe (And the right wing fail so badly when it comes to proving the "efficiency" of the free market) I pretty much became a socialist right then and there.

The massive amount of corporate corruption we've seen in this country over the years, plus the overall "evil dirtbag" attitude some rich people like to subscribe to only reinforced my belief.

I highly recommend reading about Social Democracy, even if it's just a wikipedia article on it. It's very... Fascinating.

[ZyuZyu]

Symorin

ZyuZyu

An American socialist?
Lies.

Nope, I'm an American Socialist alright.

Four years ago, during Obama's election, the right wing was throwing one of it's "hissy fits" over socialism and how it'll ruin this "great country" and so on. Well, after enduring it for years, I finally got bored one night and decided to learn about socialism. I learned about it, communism, and even a bit about anarchy. At first, I thought most of the stuff was... Well, nothing I wanted to be a part of... But then I learned about Social Democracy.

I wont lie. It was almost eye opening. It was just a system that made so much sense, that did so much good, I was genuinely amazed by it. After seeing it succeed so well in Europe (And the right wing fail so badly when it comes to proving the "efficiency" of the free market) I pretty much became a socialist right then and there.

The massive amount of corporate corruption we've seen in this country over the years, plus the overall "evil dirtbag" attitude some rich people like to subscribe to only reinforced my belief.

I highly recommend reading about Social Democracy, even if it's just a wikipedia article on it. It's very... Fascinating.

I was kind of joking. xD
And you don't need to tell me to read into it, I already have. I'm actually from Canada, and I'm a huge supporter of the New Democrat Party. I:
EDIT: A wiki for you so you understand what I'm talking about!

[Symorin]

ZyuZyu

I was kind of joking. xD
And you don't need to tell me to read into it, I already have. I'm actually from Canada, and I'm a huge supporter of the New Democrat Party. I:
EDIT: A wiki for you so you understand what I'm talking about!

Ah, sorry about taking that seriously. I inherit a bit of my absolute love of politics from my mother's side of the family (thankfully I don't yell at politicians on the television though XP)

I'm also aware (a bit) about the New Democratic Party. You guys had an awesome leader. If only we could bring Jack Layton back from the dead and have him establish a decent, American Socialist party...



EDIT: Woops, messed up the youtube coding XD

[Symorin]

Hmmm... I'm surprised this topic isn't that popular.

I thought that people love to jump into political threads and say something akin to "But Socialism is evvvvvvviiiiiiiiiil!"

[Sailor Tin Nyanko]

Thank you for the water, internets, police, libraries, fire departements, and schools exclaim

[Symorin]

Sailor Tin Nyanko

Thank you for the water, internets, police, libraries, fire departements, and schools exclaim

I don't feel I deserve to be thanked for that, thank Socialism/Socialist thinkers as a whole for it. ^_^

I'm surprised you mention fire departments, a lot of people seem to forget that fire departments weren't always under "state control". Back in Rome, a senator got the brilliant idea of starting Rome's Biggest "Fire Fighting Company"... And demanding that victims of the fire pay him while their house was burning right beside them. If they couldn't pay him, he let the land burn then bought it at a paltry price.