twilight sucks and is racist

[grimar2008]

Twilight is really fantastic. All the characters seem so real, the plot is amazing and the movies are so likeable.
The book series are like nothing anyone has ever read before, and I especially like the fact that all the characters have strong and sound motives for what they do.

Also I like the fact that Jacob fell in love with someone in the end.

[GunsmithKitten]

grimar2008

All the characters seem so real

If that's true, it's not a good thing.

People like Bella especially.

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the movies are so likeable.

If I want a movie about a sociopathic manipulator and their pawns, I'll watch something like Wall Street or...hell, DUNE...

[grimar2008]

Wow you must be a smart guy that just doesn't get sarcasm.

I dislike twilight too but don't brag about it, and certainly don't bi*** to people who do like it.
People like it and that's it, does anyone else bi*** to you at how your pokemon cards make you look dumb, or how you'll never get a girlfriend because of your anime collection?

You must be one of those people that think it's okay to make fun of someone's religion and maybe even in the case you're an atheist you think that it makes you look smart if criticize the bible for it's logic.

Twilight is every girl's wet dream and it is illogical as sh*t but what is more illogical is you typing all of this on this forum at this time. Explain that please.

[Minerva de Sade]

Faol_Cailin

rolleyes This just shows me how much you know what you're talking about; Vampire venom leeches all pigment from the skin. Regardless of original ethnicity, a vampire's skin will be exceptionally pale; the hues vary slightly, with darker-skinned humans having an olive tone to their vampire skin, but the light shade remains. Similiar to the way people become very pale after they die. I don't think this counts as being racist, just a part of the whole vampire thing. As far as I know, Meyer did a lot of research on the Quileutes, including their lifestyle and legends. True, I think she probably should have asked their permission before including them in her book and adding the "Cold Ones" bit into their legends, but I don't see any racism in any of this. Please explain.

♒ caligulasAquarium
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Meyer's the first writer to do something like that with her vampires. I cannot think of another vampire story where this happened. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

This also links back to Meyer's religion (Mormonism). In the Mormon religion, people with darker skin are considered "evil", and won't get a place in heaven. In fact, the Mormon church refused to allow African Americans into their church until the government stepped in and told them if they wanted to keep their "religion" status as far as the government was concerned (and not get taxed), they couldn't do that.

Mind you, not all Mormons think this way, but there are still quite a few (like Meyer) who hold fast to these beliefs. So yeah, teeny bit racist. Stems from her religion that she grew up with, but still racist.

Meyer did NO research, and has stated so. She didn't want her original ideas to be "tainted", so she just wrote, without doing any research what-so-ever.

The people of the Quiluetes were actually VERY upset at Meyer's portrayal of them in her books.

On top of that, she made it look like they were all poor and lived in shacks. It's a negative stereotype that Native Americans are all dirt-poor and live on reservations.

Also, some of us have actually read the books, please don't assume we haven't.

[LadyLazarus-Wyrda]

Minerva de Sade

Faol_Cailin

rolleyes This just shows me how much you know what you're talking about; Vampire venom leeches all pigment from the skin. Regardless of original ethnicity, a vampire's skin will be exceptionally pale; the hues vary slightly, with darker-skinned humans having an olive tone to their vampire skin, but the light shade remains. Similiar to the way people become very pale after they die. I don't think this counts as being racist, just a part of the whole vampire thing. As far as I know, Meyer did a lot of research on the Quileutes, including their lifestyle and legends. True, I think she probably should have asked their permission before including them in her book and adding the "Cold Ones" bit into their legends, but I don't see any racism in any of this. Please explain.

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

Meyer's the first writer to do something like that with her vampires. I cannot think of another vampire story where this happened. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

This also links back to Meyer's religion (Mormonism). In the Mormon religion, people with darker skin are considered "evil", and won't get a place in heaven. In fact, the Mormon church refused to allow African Americans into their church until the government stepped in and told them if they wanted to keep their "religion" status as far as the government was concerned (and not get taxed), they couldn't do that.

Mind you, not all Mormons think this way, but there are still quite a few (like Meyer) who hold fast to these beliefs. So yeah, teeny bit racist. Stems from her religion that she grew up with, but still racist.

Meyer did NO research, and has stated so. She didn't want her original ideas to be "tainted", so she just wrote, without doing any research what-so-ever.

The people of the Quiluetes were actually VERY upset at Meyer's portrayal of them in her books.

On top of that, she made it look like they were all poor and lived in shacks. It's a negative stereotype that Native Americans are all dirt-poor and live on reservations.

Also, some of us have actually read the books, please don't assume we haven't.

I wouldn't know, this is the only vampire series I've ever read. I prefer werewolves. I was only under the impression that vampires were traditionally considered pale. My mistake. I didn't know that about Mormonism. I knew she was a Morman, of course, I just had no idea what that entailed. After reading that, however, I kinda agree with you. I didn't think that that many people still thought that way, but I suppose that's just naive of me. I know she said she didn't do any research on vampires, but she did say that she researched the Quiluetes, or atleast their stories. I'd have to look it up to give you a direct quote, which I don't feel like doing right now. Don't bite my head off for this, but it is true that most reservations aren't exactly very hospitable. I'm not saying they're all like that, or that all Native Americans are poor--of course not--just that there are quite a few who do live that way. Personally, I blame our crappy government. And then theres the fact that she did manipulate their legends--again, without their permission--and made it seem like their half-wolf teens were also perverts. That imprinting thing it possibly the weirdest part of Twilight. Oh, yeah, and I'm sure that the good people of Volterra, Italy aren't very happy about being ruled by vampires, either. And don't get your panties in a twist, I never assumed anything.

[Minerva de Sade]

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

Faol_Cailin

I wouldn't know, this is the only vampire series I've ever read. I prefer werewolves. I was only under the impression that vampires were traditionally considered pale. My mistake.



I honestly am pretty enamored of both, as well as zombies, so this book seemed like a good idea for me when a friend recommended it. Boy, was I surprised. sweatdrop

It is true that many vampires are 'pale' in some sense, but there have been stories with vampires of different skin tones, such as the Blade series (Both the movies and the comics). There is one HUGE difference between the movies and the comics: Blade isn't a half-vampire in the comics like he is in the movies. Not that this made the movies bad, but it drew away from the original comic, and the comic book nerd in me shudders at that sort of thing. But my inner vampire flick nerd was pretty satisfied with the series as a whole. Especially Blade Trinity.



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I didn't know that about Mormonism. I knew she was a Mormon, of course, I just had no idea what that entailed. After reading that, however, I kinda agree with you. I didn't think that that many people still thought that way, but I suppose that's just naive of me.



There will always be people who think like that. It was so ingrained in our society, it's pretty much impossible to get everyone to stop thinking like that. Especially if it's part of someone's religion.

We can get them to admit it's wrong, but we can't get them to give it up.



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I know she said she didn't do any research on vampires, but she did say that she researched the Quiluetes, or atleast their stories. I'd have to look it up to give you a direct quote, which I don't feel like doing right now.



Now that you mention it, I do vaguely remember her saying something to this extent as well. However, just looking up some of the Quiluetes' lore does not an expert make. if she really wanted to do it properly, and if she really cared about their history and lore, she'd done a little bit more thorough job of researching them. I mean, she is an English major. She's had to have written at least one research paper in her lifetime, right?



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Don't bite my head off for this, but it is true that most reservations aren't exactly very hospitable. I'm not saying they're all like that, or that all Native Americans are poor--of course not--just that there are quite a few who do live that way. Personally, I blame our crappy government.



I cannot 'bite your head off' for the truth, but that doesn't make Meyer any less racist for portraying them that way, in that negative stereotype. And, yes, I agree with that blame.



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And then theres the fact that she did manipulate their legends--again, without their permission--and made it seem like their half-wolf teens were also perverts. That imprinting thing it possibly the weirdest part of Twilight.



Manipulating someone's history without their permission is a very terrible thing to do. Lore is a very important aspect of Native American culture, and to tweak it -- however minor -- to fit your own ends instead of finding a story that fit your purposes, or, hell, making up your own, is really rude and inconsiderate.

I still say Meyer wouldn't have half the problems she did have if she put this story in a fictional "Anywhere, USA" setting rather than a specific place in a specific state. Hell, she could have put it on some sort of alternate world that's very similar to Earth and people wouldn't jump on her back about accurate history and geography (We'd still slam her for messing up basic biology though).



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Oh, yeah, and I'm sure that the good people of Volterra, Italy aren't very happy about being ruled by vampires, either.



I don't think that's as bad of an offense. Like I don't think the people of New York are miffed about having people say that superheroes live there.

I mean, I can see them getting upset maybe, but they aren't being put in the spotlight of a bad stereotype like the Quiluetes.



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And don't get your panties in a twist, I never assumed anything.



When you say things like "This just shows me how much you know what you're talking about", then that tells me you think we didn't read the books or any other source material.

And my panties remain untwisted. All I asked is for you not to assume anything. I wasn't prissy or upset about it.

[Kasri Noireau]

grimar2008

Wow you must be a smart guy that just doesn't get sarcasm.

I dislike twilight too but don't brag about it, and certainly don't bi*** to people who do like it.
People like it and that's it, does anyone else bi*** to you at how your pokemon cards make you look dumb, or how you'll never get a girlfriend because of your anime collection?

You must be one of those people that think it's okay to make fun of someone's religion and maybe even in the case you're an atheist you think that it makes you look smart if criticize the bible for it's logic.

Twilight is every girl's wet dream and it is illogical as sh*t but what is more illogical is you typing all of this on this forum at this time. Explain that please.

A) A notable distinction between the TSF Anti community and what you're portraying with your first example is that most antis are attacking Twilight, as opposed to shaming those who like it. People who do start shaming or ridiculing people for what they like are douchebags. We don't like them either.

B) I... hardly think that you can equate picking apart a young adult romance with attacking a religion. It's a somewhat hysterical escalation.

C) Every girl's wet dream? Really? You're kind of assuming a lot here. Like, the romantic and sexual tastes of every female under 20 on the planet. Also, why is the fact that it's a sexual fantasy protect it from criticism?

D) Why do we do this? We like to. We like discussing and ranting and getting into arguments with people we don't know. And guess what? That's OK. The whole "if you can't say anything nice then don't say anything" falls apart when you have a forum specifically dedicated to sharing your opinion. Opinions, no matter where you fall on the fandom-hatedom scale, are what this place is for. And saying "this is why I dislike this thing" on a forum is no less logical or productive than saying "This is why I like this thing" on a forum. It's fun. It's a place where you can get your thoughts and feelings out. If you don't want to be part of the discussion, no-one is forcing you - but the fact is that you're complaining that people shouldn't complain. So, either you want to join our complain-fest or your post is somewhat hypocritical.

I say join the complain fest. It's fun and you get to write massively TL;DR posts biggrin

[LadyLazarus-Wyrda]

Minerva de Sade

♒ caligulasAquarium
_______________________________________

I honestly am pretty enamored of both, as well as zombies, so this book seemed like a good idea for me when a friend recommended it. Boy, was I surprised. sweatdrop

It is true that many vampires are 'pale' in some sense, but there have been stories with vampires of different skin tones, such as the Blade series (Both the movies and the comics). There is one HUGE difference between the movies and the comics: Blade isn't a half-vampire in the comics like he is in the movies. Not that this made the movies bad, but it drew away from the original comic, and the comic book nerd in me shudders at that sort of thing. But my inner vampire flick nerd was pretty satisfied with the series as a whole. Especially Blade Trinity.
I've seen Blade(the movie) and completely forgot about it until you mentioned it. It was pretty awesome. I've also watched several of the Underworld movies, again, very awesome. But I was mostly refering to books and a few of the myths I've read in regards to "pale" vampires.

There will always be people who think like that. It was so ingrained in our society, it's pretty much impossible to get everyone to stop thinking like that. Especially if it's part of someone's religion.

We can get them to admit it's wrong, but we can't get them to give it up.
*sighs* Yeah, I know. That's a whole topic in and of itself. People really need to learn how to get over themselves.

Now that you mention it, I do vaguely remember her saying something to this extent as well. However, just looking up some of the Quiluetes' lore does not an expert make. if she really wanted to do it properly, and if she really cared about their history and lore, she'd done a little bit more thorough job of researching them. I mean, she is an English major. She's had to have written at least one research paper in her lifetime, right?
Yes, I completely agree with you there. Instead of focusing on just the mythical part, she probably should have done more research on the people themselves, especially since she was including them in her story too.

I cannot 'bite your head off' for the truth, but that doesn't make Meyer any less racist for portraying them that way, in that negative stereotype. And, yes, I agree with that blame.

Hmm, I suppose so. Yeah, our government is just...Useless. Pathetic. Going to hell in an a hand-basket. Take your pick.
Manipulating someone's history without their permission is a very terrible thing to do. Lore is a very important aspect of Native American culture, and to tweak it -- however minor -- to fit your own ends instead of finding a story that fit your purposes, or, hell, making up your own, is really rude and inconsiderate.

I still say Meyer wouldn't have half the problems she did have if she put this story in a fictional "Anywhere, USA" setting rather than a specific place in a specific state. Hell, she could have put it on some sort of alternate world that's very similar to Earth and people wouldn't jump on her back about accurate history and geography (We'd still slam her for messing up basic biology though).

Again, I couldn't agree more. I have a high respect of the Native Americans and their culture--I'm actually part Cherokee--and her manipulation of their legends is one of things I've never liked about Twilight. It has a LOT of problems(what an understatment), but that's one of the worst. It really wouldn't have killed her to be a bit more original, instead of stealing from others. Maggie Steifvater, my favourite author, tweaked the hell out of traditional werewolf lore, but created her own make-believe town just for them, in a real state with a very real population of gray wolves, so they could blend in. And she didn't steal from anyone in the process. To be honest, I never believed Meyer when she said that Edward wasn't based on anybody. That's such a load. My theory is that she based him off of St.John and Rochester from the book Jane Eyre.

I don't think that's as bad of an offense. Like I don't think the people of New York are miffed about having people say that superheroes live there.

I mean, I can see them getting upset maybe, but they aren't being put in the spotlight of a bad stereotype like the Quiluetes.

Yeah, I guess not. Although, she did add a fountain.

When you say things like "This just shows me how much you know what you're talking about", then that tells me you think we didn't read the books or any other source material.

And my panties remain untwisted. All I asked is for you not to assume anything. I wasn't prissy or upset about it.

Okay, okay, my snaky-ness just got the best of me.

[Fullmetal Joestar]

It's super lame.

[Maya-Sterling]

it would have been more entertaining if it had more entertaining fight scenes.

[Lukan Wolf]

sweet dream64

Sulina

sweet dream64

well for starters you can stop using "evidence" and talk to me like a normal human being with common sense on the matter.
if you're gonna use evidence, get the evidence from the twilight movies only, understand that i'm only talking about the movies and any evidence you bring up from the books is invalid and will not help you because the books are not the movies. and don't give me evidence from some other sites like "dictionary.com" that does't work.

if you can manage those simple things, maybe you can get somewhere.

If you weren't being so thick-headed and full of yourself then you wouldn't have facts and figures thrown at you and you would be treated like you have sense. You're being treated the way you are not for liking the movies but because of how you are choosing to act.

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got."

You keep getting this kind of reaction because you're acting like your head is so far up your rectum that you're a little short of getting your hair melted by gastric juice. It doesn't matter how many usernames you take up or how many sockpuppet accounts you create to try and give the illusion that there are people who agree with you.

You tell us that things have to be shoved under your nose for it to count, well guess what, the real world doesn't work like that. The reason that we pick up on stubtleties and things that you are willing to overlook is because society has taught us to. The wider world has taught us to.

I've got news for you, 50% of Forks is unemployed and it has a large number of dropouts. The little town is not as pretty as Meyer made it out to be. Even in the movies you can see that it is shoved in our face that being human is lame and being a vampire is to be superior in every way, shape and form. Guess what, it's a form of species-related racism!!

what? you mean you're not thick headed and full of yourself when you know for fact that you're completely correct in every way?
if i know that i'm right, then there is no way i'm ever gonna sit here and let some idiots convince me that i'm not.

nice quote, but did i ever complain about what i'm getting? no.

i don't care. i'd rather be right and have idiots mad at me than be an idiot myself and welcomed among the rest of you. i don't give in to peer pressure nor do i care about fitting in. you don't like the fact that i'm right then you can go "F" yourself.

and thats not why i come back with different avi's. i'm here as "sweet dream" because my "TWILIGHT IS AWWESOME" account got banned, most likely for everyone here getting butthurt about my higher intelligence. it's not the first time. "but i aint mad at ya. got nothin but love for ya. do yo thang boy."

no, the reason you pick up on "subtleties" is because you're looking for it so hard that you see it when it's not there. normal people, like me, have faith that the makers of the movie didn't have hate for races in mind when making it.

so? you're mad because forks doesn't have the same exact "feel" in the movies as it does in rl?
wow. no offence but you have some serious issues.

uhh being a vampire IS superior to being human in every way. maybe thats why you picked it up.
i didn't pick that up during the movies myself but now that you mention it, like duh, being a vampire IS better than being human.

and thats not racism.

Congratulations, you just proved to everyone that you are nothing more than a jerk that would rather ignore other's who have actual proof to back up their opinion, just like a temperamental child throwing a tantrum.

Also, being a vampire is not superior to being a human (and that comment in its self is kind of racist). Vampires, and I mean real vampires, are not immortal or invincible. They can be hurt by sunlight holy object and/or silver (depending which vampire myths a vampire is being biased off of) and can be killed. And being able to live for so long can take it's toll on someone psyche. Having to watch your loved ones grow old and die while you stay young is depressing, and sometimes even madding.

Now if you want people to respect your opinion, then please have proof to back up what you say like everyone else. Even I can provide proof as to why people like Twilight, but I can provide more proof as to why people hate Twilight since there are so many flaws with the series. (And I've read the books and watched the movies.) And yes, there are flaws in Twilight, both in the movies and in the books (especially in the books).

I would be more then willing to point out those flaws, along with why people like Twilight.

[Fullmetal Joestar]

It's really stupid and uncreative and boring.

[Lukan Wolf]

MCRmy Echelon

It's really stupid and uncreative and boring.

You bumped this thread, why?

[jumping tiger of spirit]

anyone who thinks twilight is racist is very stupid.

[Daecade]

People who agree with jumping tiger of spirit are either gullible or his sockpuppet