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Cluttered Fatcat

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It is important for us users to be aware and track down suspicious activities, but there is no reason to persecute staff or publicize their personal information. They are not the ones who are calling the shots; they are just doing what they are told to keep their jobs.

Wheezing Member

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How much is too much abuse from users (against each other and staff)?
Posting staff personal information is too much abuse. Most of them are probably just doing their job/what they're told, some have absolutely nothing to do with these "events", no. Just no.
Also blindly accusing anyone of a scandal should be a huge no-no.
Yes, the recent "133TGate" thing proved to be true. Would have it have been uncovered without the overwhelmingly heated community response? I don't know. But I think it was forking ballsy and rude to outright claim scandal.
I personally would have capitalized on the idea that it was a theory, to make it seem less like an accusation. But again.. maybe it wouldn't have gotten as much attention
shrug

I'm not going to touch the "Gaia abuses the users" thing.
it's too.. filled with legalities and loopholes.
I don't know if we can cry "abuse"

...but I can sure as hell use all of my murricun freedoms to claim "Ya'll (upper management) are a bunch of duck-mongering asshats"
emotion_yatta

Where should the line be drawn as far as abusing staff?
I've seen people saying nasty things about staff members with no real reason.
such as hate being directed at Zero Omega for his attempts at keeping us informed. Just because he is not bringing good news, does not mean that he is the sole reason for everything bad that is happening.
rolleyes
It's not exclusive to Zero, either.

Should the staff turn disable comments on their profiles to prevent abuse?
Do they read profile comments anyway?
I wouldn't if I were them. I wouldn't read them and I wouldn't disable them.
I'd disable pms though, personally.

Should we post personal information of the staff?
What? No.
what is this, a grade school "johnny pulled my pigtails so imma tell my moooom"?

Time-traveling Senshi

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Krissim Klaw
Some people always take it too far though. In 04 there were users that would say horrible stuff about staffers when they didn't like how the donation items turned out. lol

If staffers think particular users are stepping over the line, they will deal with it. Personally, one of the things I've always liked about Gaia is that in general staffers often have a turn the other cheek policy when it comes to all but the worst stuff directed at them. There are some sites where if you even seem to be somewhat in disagreement with the staff, you will be banned.

I've seen more users being civil with the discussion than those that haven't. The crux of the uproar isn't about mules. It is about mp manipulation on a grand scale with generated gold that was used to purchase items for exorbitant amounts. This was followed by straight up lies and then finally vague responses/back peddling when they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.


          But is it right for them to drag the name of mod accounts through the mud and to post personal off Gaia information of certain people just to prove their side? Discussing the issue, be it this one or any other issue people find wrong on Gaia, and letting all sides in the debate be heard is one thing but telling people to flood inboxes and harass the staff off Gaia (someone actually told people to do that during the early stages of the "revolution" ) is really taking things a bit too far. And how are things fair when the only discussion being allowed in a heated topic like that, or any other similar one for that matter, is only that which agrees with the OP. When you have people jumping all over each other like they have been (it might not be on every single page but it's been happening) then it becomes less of a balanced discussion and more of an "either your with us or get out" kind of a situation.

Dead Hellraiser

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It's gone beyond too far. The behavior I've seen is disgusting and creepy and is bringing back painful reminders from a few years ago.

A good way to think of how to gauge your behavior when it comes to other users is measure if you could do it IRL. If it'd get you arrested (which the obsessive digging would, besides being a sign you should get professional help) IRL, then don't do it here. Stalking would get you arrested, as would threatening and harassing.

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Krissim Klaw
Some people always take it too far though. In 04 there were users that would say horrible stuff about staffers when they didn't like how the donation items turned out. lol

If staffers think particular users are stepping over the line, they will deal with it. Personally, one of the things I've always liked about Gaia is that in general staffers often have a turn the other cheek policy when it comes to all but the worst stuff directed at them. There are some sites where if you even seem to be somewhat in disagreement with the staff, you will be banned.

I've seen more users being civil with the discussion than those that haven't. The crux of the uproar isn't about mules. It is about mp manipulation on a grand scale with generated gold that was used to purchase items for exorbitant amounts. This was followed by straight up lies and then finally vague responses/back peddling when they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.


Chibi Halo
          But is it right for them to drag the name of mod accounts through the mud and to post personal off Gaia information of certain people just to prove their side? Discussing the issue, be it this one or any other issue people find wrong on Gaia, and letting all sides in the debate be heard is one thing but telling people to flood inboxes and harass the staff off Gaia (someone actually told people to do that during the early stages of the "revolution" ) is really taking things a bit too far. And how are things fair when the only discussion being allowed in a heated topic like that, or any other similar one for that matter, is only that which agrees with the OP. When you have people jumping all over each other like they have been (it might not be on every single page but it's been happening) then it becomes less of a balanced discussion and more of an "either your with us or get out" kind of a situation.



At the same time, I don't know how they could not see this happen.

Gaia's users are not dumb. I don't know why staffers could dismiss the idea that we would figure it out eventually if they were doing something uncouth. It started off being one sided, and we all know how the public loves a delicious mystery.

Without anything of reasonable value for the userbase to talk about, it's become the equivalent of the grocery-store checkout isle tabloids all around here.



The lesson that Gaia should learn: The userbase is bored and already fired up to epic proportions because of trust issues with Gaia's business. It's all we have to talk about; it's all we have been talking about. It's already a recipe for disaster so it doesn't take someone with psychic powers to see how the public will latch onto it and turn it into a user vs. Gaia conspiracy. It's not like there is something equivalent to is made in positivity for us to pay attention to, either.

I can't blame the userbase from reacting at all. The irrationality of it is a different story, though. It only makes sense why 133tgate is the hot topic of 2014. Gaia brought it on themselves and put their employees in the line of fire.



Anyway, I know there would have been a completely different reaction if our world wasn't so ********. If things were positive, they were actively working on the economy, if there were things to do and Gaia had achieved the balance we have all wanted for over a decade... ...then this would be water under the bridge. Our world is one big world of negativity with items, now.

Since it's another thing on the "pile of stupid" it's only served to bring down morale of the userbase further, it's further fractured our trust, and this will also be further ignored by Gaia like every other thing that they have done that's messed up the site.

They will just wait for people to stop talking about it instead of giving it real attention. As per usual, and that's one reason why I am personally fired up about it. Gaia's lack of action in the face of negativity has come to be expected, which pisses some people off even more.

Time-traveling Senshi

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I have a tissue
At the same time, I don't know how they could not see this happen.

Gaia's users are not dumb. I don't know why staffers could dismiss the idea that we would figure it out eventually if they were doing something uncouth. It started off being one sided, and we all know how the public loves a delicious mystery.

Without anything of reasonable value for the userbase to talk about, it's become the equivalent of the grocery-store checkout isle tabloids all around here.



The lesson that Gaia should learn: The userbase is bored and already fired up to epic proportions because of trust issues with Gaia's business. It's all we have to talk about; it's all we have been talking about. It's already a recipe for disaster so it doesn't take someone with psychic powers to see how the public will latch onto it and turn it into a user vs. Gaia conspiracy. It's not like there is something equivalent to is made in positivity for us to pay attention to, either.

I can't blame the userbase from reacting at all. The irrationality of it is a different story, though. It only makes sense why 133tgate is the hot topic of 2014. Gaia brought it on themselves and put their employees in the line of fire.



Anyway, I know there would have been a completely different reaction if our world wasn't so ********. If things were positive, they were actively working on the economy, if there were things to do and Gaia had achieved the balance we have all wanted for over a decade... ...then this would be water under the bridge. Our world is one big world of negativity with items, now.

Since it's another thing on the "pile of stupid" it's only served to bring down morale of the userbase further, it's further fractured our trust, and this will also be further ignored by Gaia like every other thing that they have done that's messed up the site.

They will just wait for people to stop talking about it instead of giving it real attention. As per usual, and that's one reason why I am personally fired up about it. Gaia's lack of action in the face of negativity has come to be expected, which pisses some people off even more.


          Here's the thing though. It's not what's being discussed that's the issue because it could be about anything Gaia's done lately but how it's being discussed that's the real issue. The way the first post in any discussion is worded can have a great affect on the rest of the thread. And how the thread owner steers the discussion continually feeding to the fire instead of simply discussing just the original issues at hand and encouraging the kind of behavior that's seen in threads of that nature only causes things to get worse. That's when you do get people then suggesting to harass staff members both on and off Gaia.

          Discussing a topic is one thing, and I'll never question sane rational discussion, but inciting revolt and telling people to do some of the things that have been happening over the last fourteen months is never right.

Magical Girl

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Unfortunately that's just how people act, offline and on.

And what's worst that too many people write off this sort of abuse as "necessary" since Gaia is a "big bad evil company"

It makes me wonder if any of these "heroes" actually give a rat's s**t about real devilish Goliaths like Time Warner or Comcast
lol

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Rhea Byrne
It's gone beyond too far. The behavior I've seen is disgusting and creepy and is bringing back painful reminders from a few years ago.

A good way to think of how to gauge your behavior when it comes to other users is measure if you could do it IRL. If it'd get you arrested (which the obsessive digging would, besides being a sign you should get professional help) IRL, then don
't do it here. Stalking would get you arrested, as would threatening and harassing.

There's a difference, it's not really "stalking", more like investigating a suspect.

Beloved Fairy

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DYRL
Unfortunately that's just how people act, offline and on.

And what's worst that too many people write off this sort of abuse as "necessary" since Gaia is a "big bad evil company"

It makes me wonder if any of these "heroes" actually give a rat's s**t about real devilish Goliaths like Time Warner or Comcast
lol


This is the thing though. I don't believe there's anything wrong with healthy skepticism, with questioning things you're told. I get that. But what I'm really tired of the assumption that one has to be naive or a whiteknight to not express complete and utter outrage every time Gaia does something-- anything! --or pulls some s**t. s**t that I do not agree with, that I am not happy about, but I can't find it in myself to be that spiteful-- either to the staff, OR to other users.

Everything that has happened in the last two weeks has made me just not want to care anymore, and it has nothing to do with Gaia as an entity and everything to do with the response this has brought about, from both sides.

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Chibi Halo
I have a tissue
At the same time, I don't know how they could not see this happen.

Gaia's users are not dumb. I don't know why staffers could dismiss the idea that we would figure it out eventually if they were doing something uncouth. It started off being one sided, and we all know how the public loves a delicious mystery.

Without anything of reasonable value for the userbase to talk about, it's become the equivalent of the grocery-store checkout isle tabloids all around here.



The lesson that Gaia should learn: The userbase is bored and already fired up to epic proportions because of trust issues with Gaia's business. It's all we have to talk about; it's all we have been talking about. It's already a recipe for disaster so it doesn't take someone with psychic powers to see how the public will latch onto it and turn it into a user vs. Gaia conspiracy. It's not like there is something equivalent to is made in positivity for us to pay attention to, either.

I can't blame the userbase from reacting at all. The irrationality of it is a different story, though. It only makes sense why 133tgate is the hot topic of 2014. Gaia brought it on themselves and put their employees in the line of fire.



Anyway, I know there would have been a completely different reaction if our world wasn't so ********. If things were positive, they were actively working on the economy, if there were things to do and Gaia had achieved the balance we have all wanted for over a decade... ...then this would be water under the bridge. Our world is one big world of negativity with items, now.

Since it's another thing on the "pile of stupid" it's only served to bring down morale of the userbase further, it's further fractured our trust, and this will also be further ignored by Gaia like every other thing that they have done that's messed up the site.

They will just wait for people to stop talking about it instead of giving it real attention. As per usual, and that's one reason why I am personally fired up about it. Gaia's lack of action in the face of negativity has come to be expected, which pisses some people off even more.


          Here's the thing though. It's not what's being discussed that's the issue because it could be about anything Gaia's done lately but how it's being discussed that's the real issue. The way the first post in any discussion is worded can have a great affect on the rest of the thread. And how the thread owner steers the discussion continually feeding to the fire instead of simply discussing just the original issues at hand and encouraging the kind of behavior that's seen in threads of that nature only causes things to get worse. That's when you do get people then suggesting to harass staff members both on and off Gaia.

          Discussing a topic is one thing, and I'll never question sane rational discussion, but inciting revolt and telling people to do some of the things that have been happening over the last fourteen months is never right.



Gaia has been expecting the userbase to bend over and take it for over a year.

Do I agree with the userbase acting irrationally? No.
Do I believe Gaia employees deserve it? No.
Do I feel bad for Gaia that it happened? Hell no.

I don't have to feel remorse over it, and I do not feel that Gaia as a business deserves it. The people who were thrown under the bus as people deserve it, but not Gaia as a business.

I am more content with the fact that Gaia can now see the ultimate power within their users to push back when we are pushed to the extreme, and we have been. I wish it happened under different circumstances and it was acknowledged before s**t hit the fan, but it's not like they are giving us much room to talk and negotiate balance. It just shows how disconnected Gaia as a business is from the rest of their site.



It's sad that it came to this, but I've been watching a bullet train crash in slow motion for a long time now. I am just a witness- I can't stop it; I can't change it; I can only sit and watch. It just finally derailed and blew up after watching it for a while.

Now I am just waiting for the speeding train coming from the other way to crash into the current wreckage.



I hope it goes as far as impacting their profits. Maybe if it does that they will see how integral the community morale and environmental positivity is to them and their pocketbook.

If not... Well, Gaia will go down in a fiery ball of flames while I cackle, "I told you so."

Snarky Vampire

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My mind is still reeling from the complete, quadruple-whammy gut-punch that is the Double Rainbow Ticket incident. I want to talk to the staff about it personally through PMs, but I'm smart enough to know I'd probably just break down and join a lot of other users in their downward spiral and start tearing away at Zero verbally like some rabid animal.

I know I'm better than that, though, so I say enough is enough. I say there's been enough name-calling, enough accusations. Enough of the insults and backhanded criticism of individuals just because they represent a company with poor business ethics.

I feel no remorse for how we're acting towards Gaia as a company. I believe that as a company, they're getting everything they deserve for their short-sightedness and inability to grasp that maybe, with trust in the company and the staff already at unsustainable lows, this wasn't the best time to manipulate the marketplace and buy up tickets to lighten their work load. Their poor sense of timing with this just adds another passenger car to the train wreck they've made of the site; as a company, they've failed to connect with their users in positive ways, and this is just the icing on the cake.

But as people, I hardly think any of them deserve our ire. So they got caught with their pants down, messing with something they'd promised us they wouldn't touch. Why should we be shouting down individual staff members down over that, when they're the only ones acting responsibly in coming forward and talking to us about it? Just because they're there and, as the only ones willing to talk to us, are the easiest ones to insult and pin the blame on? That's got to be the lamest, most inexcusable reason why we should lay blame on Zero or any of the other admins reaching out and being honest with us about how Gaia made a mistake. We shouldn't treat people the way we would treat companies. So I say there's been enough of that.

Magical Fairy

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dreamsk
If anyone has been yelling at poor Zero about this, that's about akin to yelling as some cashier at the Walmart for making the icecream sandwiches out of preservatives. Customer service jobs are the absolute worst job type anyone can have - people are dumb and abuse you for things that were out of your control and probably have nothing to do with you. And that's not even Zero's position at Gaia - he's just a dev. He doesn't have to talk to us at all. But because he goes out of his way to talk to us is really a call to his character. He knows he's going to be abused by the userbase that he works for, but wants to communicate essential issues so that we know about them.

But really, for Gaia to go too far for me to quit the site would essentially mean that Gaia becomes pay to play - that we would have to buy a membership to access the site. Either that or I was banned for some reason.

Should staff turn off methods to contact them? Ehh, depends on how they feel. Usually problems posted in the forums get addressed pretty quickly.

Obviously posting personal info about staff (or anyone) is against the TOS and should be reported.


Actually Zero is an admin, not a dev.

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gonk emotion_facepalm
I don't know why I'm surprised at people taking it that far but it's still pretty disgusting that people threaten each other over pixels. confused
I did post in the forums alot and I told a few of my friends who've been on here a while about it but pixel Jesus, harassing mods is just asinine.
They're caught in the middle, for ********.

eeedit/More disgusted at the ticket thing, still comes down to the Gaia CEOs tho; they prolly give the mods/artists something, BUT it should be like free gcash. Iunno.

Tenacious Glitch

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It saddens me that users are being spotlighted with this discussion as well as the admin and please in the future don't post specific page numbers just for others to troll an user. It's equally not right to troll period whether it is to an admin or not. I've seen users go way too far when addressing both admin and the community. It was a good point that Gaians are just bored. I mean if they weren't then there would be less name calling going around everywhere. I admit I did pm lanzer about it because the attack towards users and staff is going way too far and Zero could use some help. Do I advise others to do the same? No. I want the issue addressed and handled properly. But I'm not going to stop talking to anyone just because they have a colored name or not. That isn't being a community not talking. There are real people behind each and every avi and if I like talking to someone enough I will regardless of what others say or what the state of the site is in. I want everyone to please stop blaming the community of the ATA removal. There is no proof, but there is proof against it based on lanzer's journal and sisky's post of working on Tentacl. This pro-Gaia anti-Gaia with stereotyping people into specific groups needs to stop. I've seen enough mudslinging going around the community to make me never want to recommend this site to anyone. I mean what can I say, "if you have a different opinion agreeing or disagreeing with how the site is run, you'll be attacked for it on a dress up doll site." Get your act together community. Put the differences aside and don't let the site slip away just because of quarrels. The manga is in danger and don't let the other features get in danger as well so only thing you have left is the cash shop. I feel like Gaians just want an excuse to attack another member now, which was apparent with the last event.

Edgy Trash

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They're down abusive and harrassing staff/users. It's more than dissatisfaction and anger. It's evolved to a point that's past that.


"Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!"


And that's one of the main reasons why staff communication has been at an all time low.

Just about every time someone from Gaia posts in the forums the same thing happens to them. Questioned (about something they might not be able to answer for whatever reason), then questioned why they didn't answer, then attacked, then abused, then either harassed or threatened. Rinse and repeat.


"Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn."

The whole reason why I never step foot in the Site Feedback forums.
I actually kind of felt sorry for Zero, since he isn't upper management and I am pretty much sure he had to keep grounds neutral for formality sake.


"Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!"


There's only so much he, and other admins/staff, can tell us due to the NDA but some Gaians don't seem to understand that. There's also the fact that he probably only knows so much too when it comes to what's going on at Gaia and what other teams/staff members are doing.


"Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn."



User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.



See, I said that, too, but then I was called a GJW (Gaia Justice Warrior) for suggesting the possibility that, gasp, perhaps Zero doesn't actually know what's going on! And what Zero DOES know, he can only disclose certain parts of due to the NDA he likely signed.

Basically, having an opposing opinion in the SF warrants ridicule and scorn because you aren't going to join the herd of sheeple in their little lynchmob.
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