Free Will ; Do We Really Have It?

Do we really have free will?

Yep, sure do.	34.6%	[ 9 ]
Nope, not at all.	19.2%	[ 5 ]
I don't know?	3.8%	[ 1 ]
More yes than no.	15.4%	[ 4 ]
More no than yes.	19.2%	[ 5 ]
Men with nice jaw lines are sexy.	7.7%	[ 2 ]
Total Votes:			[ 26 ]

[Phthalocyanine Blue]

I believe, all choices we make are driven by greed. Not so much greed, but benefits that we get from making certain choices / actions.
You may say things such as:

What about donating to the poor?
What about helping others in need?
What about convincing someone not kill them self?

The thing that unites these is that all of them give you a sense of achievement or self worth after doing them. The feeling of helping others is very positive. This is not dissimilar to games except the fact that the satisfaction is from completing short term goals.

One thing I can think of, is jumping in front of a bullet (or something similar) for someone, knowing you will die. It's happened on multiple occasions. Knowing you will die, are there any things you can actually benefit from?

I'm curious of your thoughts.

Disclaimer: I'm not smart or a professional in any way and I'm not studying psychology or human behaviour, I'm just curious about this subject.

[Raining_Nights]

To address your question, I would say that people have free will to an extent. Nature limits some of our choices, and others may only be influenced by society. It is impossible to escape environmental/societal influences, but the choices that someone makes are entirely their own (so long as no external force is compelling them to do otherwise). These decisions are made internally by one's own free will, although people may feel constrained by the consequences which society (or nature) applies to certain choices. People have no free will when it comes to choosing what will happen as a consequence of their decision, and sometimes the consequences have been predetermined by other people.

A person has free will to the extent to which it is not limited or constrained by some outside force. People can always choose to ignore the influences of society, but they don't have the power to control the effects. Therefore, sometimes they are forced to choose which consequences they are willing to live with. This decision itself is internal. All the same, individuals have very little control over the way that the world works.

What you refer to doesn't have so much to do with free will as it does with motivations. Greed is defined as this

Quote:

An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth

What you are referring to isn't necessarily greed. When people choose to do something that benefits another person or when a person chooses to give their life up for another person, then they aren't concerned with how they'll feel afterward or how they will benefit; therefore, they are not driven by greed. The feeling of being satisfied with what they have done or the proud feeling of knowing they made the right decision is simply natural.

However, when people choose to do something good for another person for the sake of boosting their own image, then they are concerned with their own benefit and not with the benefit of the other person. This is greed.

[shana_hamilton]

to say that there is no free will is dangerous because its an excuse for doing the wrong thing. of course there are times when people dont have a choice or dont have a good choice, but there is always free will.

[Christien Chalfant]

Choloepus Didactylus

I believe, all choices we make are driven by greed. Not so much greed, but benefits that we get from making certain choices / actions.

Have you ever taken an Economics class? Or read anything remotely by a well respected Economist? Perhaps Hayek, Friedman, Sowell, Williams, or even Krugman?

Because actions are not driven by greed, but rational self-interest. It's in my rational self-interest to improve my standard of living and receive a higher wage. BUT it is greedy to want all the money in the company, world, etcetera.

Choloepus Didactylus

You may say things such as:

What about donating to the poor?
What about helping others in need?
What about convincing someone not kill them self?

The thing that unites these is that all of them give you a sense of achievement or self worth after doing them. The feeling of helping others is very positive. This is not dissimilar to games except the fact that the satisfaction is from completing short term goals.

I am not sure I understand your point in saying this. Are these examples of actions that do not play into someones rational self-interest?
I am also not in exact agreement with what you have stated. To make the claim that all people that make charitable actions or contributions feel a sense of achievement or self worth is very general. Furthermore, would the dialogue or interaction that happened with a person to lead them away from killing themselves be giving the other person a sense of self-worth instead of yourself?

Choloepus Didactylus

One thing I can think of, is jumping in front of a bullet (or something similar) for someone, knowing you will die. It's happened on multiple occasions. Knowing you will die, are there any things you can actually benefit from?

I'm curious of your thoughts.

Curiously enough, choices are not always made on improving ones life. Jumping in front of a bullet may or not be a planned action. If it is instinctual then it is very difficult to say that the person was acting in their rational self-interest.

Choloepus Didactylus

Disclaimer: I'm not smart or a professional in any way and I'm not studying psychology or human behaviour, I'm just curious about this subject.

As an anecdote, there are multiple things that I do that do not improve my well-being at all or even improve my sense of self-worth.

For instance, when I am in a shopping mall, if an employee catches my attention with their product I will let them give me their spiel and listen to them. Listening to them is in no way acting in my rational self-interest, especially when I am in the mall in order to buy something else. But interacting with them is just a friendly conversation and perhaps, perhaps, they may have a product that I think I should purchase to improve my standard of living.

Helping an old woman across the street, picking up someones dropped item, returning a lost item, sharing office supplies with a fellow employee. These are all things that, at least in my case, do not improve my standard of living or give me a sense of achievement. Merely, friendly actions that to be expected of as a human.

Though I try to think specifically in terms of supply and demand compared to terms of entitlement and discrimination.

[Lulu Bahamut]

shana_hamilton

to say that there is no free will is dangerous because its an excuse for doing the wrong thing. of course there are times when people dont have a choice or dont have a good choice, but there is always free will.

THIS *points at above* YES 3nodding

We always have a choice - sometimes we may not be as aware that we are making one, but we are constantly choosing things for ourselves and those around us 3nodding

[shana_hamilton]

Lulu Bahamut

shana_hamilton

to say that there is no free will is dangerous because its an excuse for doing the wrong thing. of course there are times when people dont have a choice or dont have a good choice, but there is always free will.

THIS *points at above* YES 3nodding

We always have a choice - sometimes we may not be as aware that we are making one, but we are constantly choosing things for ourselves and those around us 3nodding

thanks smile What do you think about it?

[Phthalocyanine Blue]

oops this was a stupid thread.

[Zariah Khi]

I think we all have free will, but it is not absolute for everything has it's limits, for if limitations does not exist it will be chaotic .

[psyco_bacon22]

There's one problem in terms of "free will": anyone and everyone can do whatever they want..

people can be selfless, humble, kind, wanting to make the world a better place..
-or-
can be selfish, greedy, violent, abusive, satisfying themselves by tormenting other people', or just want to tear the world apart....

[QUAIT_2]

Physicists will say that we don't have free will. They say that "choice" is the feeling we have, but we are simply acting out on physics taking its course. We are simply automata.

I think that's bullshit, though. LOL