Why Are Lefties Against Guns, Secure Borders, etc?

[N3bu]

Origin of Wealth

N3bu

Liberals aren't against secure borders. Liberals just have sympathy for people who want to immigrate to the US to start a better life (like you know, the entire philosophy of the United States for the past 300 years) but can't because the system is too ******** up and they have neither the funds or the right colour of skin to navigate it within a ten year window.

So being for open borders as part of a Pro-Globalization agenda isn't Liberal?

Depends on what you consider by open borders.

Free, Basic security and customs checks, less then a month wait time? Sure.

Just walk right in? No.

[Kaltros]

N3bu

Liberals aren't against secure borders. Liberals just have sympathy for people who want to immigrate to the US to start a better life (like you know, the entire philosophy of the United States for the past 300 years) but can't because the system is too ******** up and they have neither the funds or the right colour of skin to navigate it within a ten year window.

Sympathy, eh? Then why does a heavily blue, Democratic stronghold like NYC have a stop and frisk policy towards blacks and latinos:

Quote:

The New York Police Department released new data showing the vast majority of victims and perpetrators of violent crime in the city are black and Latino, in what experts said was likely part of a broader effort to defuse allegations of racial bias in the NYPD's stop-and-frisk policy.

The statistics, which cover crime in 2012 through the end of June, show that 96 percent of all shooting victims and 97 percent of all shooting suspects in the city were black or Latino. The report also shows that more than 90 percent of New Yorkers stopped and frisked so far in 2012 were black and Latino.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/nypd-report-details-crime_n_1862771.html

[Origin of Wealth]

N3bu

Origin of Wealth

N3bu

Liberals aren't against secure borders. Liberals just have sympathy for people who want to immigrate to the US to start a better life (like you know, the entire philosophy of the United States for the past 300 years) but can't because the system is too ******** up and they have neither the funds or the right colour of skin to navigate it within a ten year window.

So being for open borders as part of a Pro-Globalization agenda isn't Liberal?

Depends on what you consider by open borders.

Free, Basic security and customs checks, less then a month wait time? Sure.

Just walk right in? No.

Then what defines the bolded? Crazy? Stupid? Beyond Liberal?
Bizarro Liberal?

[N3bu]

Origin of Wealth

N3bu

Origin of Wealth

N3bu

Liberals aren't against secure borders. Liberals just have sympathy for people who want to immigrate to the US to start a better life (like you know, the entire philosophy of the United States for the past 300 years) but can't because the system is too ******** up and they have neither the funds or the right colour of skin to navigate it within a ten year window.

So being for open borders as part of a Pro-Globalization agenda isn't Liberal?

Depends on what you consider by open borders.

Free, Basic security and customs checks, less then a month wait time? Sure.

Just walk right in? No.

Then what defines the bolded? Crazy? Stupid? Beyond Liberal?
Bizarro Liberal?

Shrug.

[N3bu]

Kaltros

N3bu

Liberals aren't against secure borders. Liberals just have sympathy for people who want to immigrate to the US to start a better life (like you know, the entire philosophy of the United States for the past 300 years) but can't because the system is too ******** up and they have neither the funds or the right colour of skin to navigate it within a ten year window.

Sympathy, eh? Then why does a heavily blue, Democratic stronghold like NYC have a stop and frisk policy towards blacks and latinos:

Quote:

The New York Police Department released new data showing the vast majority of victims and perpetrators of violent crime in the city are black and Latino, in what experts said was likely part of a broader effort to defuse allegations of racial bias in the NYPD's stop-and-frisk policy.

The statistics, which cover crime in 2012 through the end of June, show that 96 percent of all shooting victims and 97 percent of all shooting suspects in the city were black or Latino. The report also shows that more than 90 percent of New Yorkers stopped and frisked so far in 2012 were black and Latino.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/nypd-report-details-crime_n_1862771.html

The same city that voted Rudolf Giuliani as mayor?

I should also mention that I don't know who is and isn't liberal in the United States and I'm sure plenty of Democrats aren't. It certainly doesn't mean they don't hold racial biases, I don't know why you would think otherwise.

Also of note, you are talking about a Police Force. I've yet to hear of a Police force in the world that doesn't hold major racial biases against minorities.

[Kaltros]

N3bu

Kaltros

N3bu

Liberals aren't against secure borders. Liberals just have sympathy for people who want to immigrate to the US to start a better life (like you know, the entire philosophy of the United States for the past 300 years) but can't because the system is too ******** up and they have neither the funds or the right colour of skin to navigate it within a ten year window.

Sympathy, eh? Then why does a heavily blue, Democratic stronghold like NYC have a stop and frisk policy towards blacks and latinos:

Quote:

The New York Police Department released new data showing the vast majority of victims and perpetrators of violent crime in the city are black and Latino, in what experts said was likely part of a broader effort to defuse allegations of racial bias in the NYPD's stop-and-frisk policy.

The statistics, which cover crime in 2012 through the end of June, show that 96 percent of all shooting victims and 97 percent of all shooting suspects in the city were black or Latino. The report also shows that more than 90 percent of New Yorkers stopped and frisked so far in 2012 were black and Latino.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/nypd-report-details-crime_n_1862771.html

The same city that voted Rudolf Giuliani as mayor?

I should also mention that I don't know who is and isn't liberal in the United States and I'm sure plenty of Democrats aren't. It certainly doesn't mean they don't hold racial biases, I don't know why you would think otherwise.

Perhaps you have a different definition of liberal than I do. What is it? And anyway it seems to me like Democrats only profess sympathy for illegal immigrants in public. In reality the Democrats just want illegal immigrants for the reliable votes. Establishment Republicans aren't much better, though. Establishment Republicans just want illegals for cheap labor. In neither case, though, would I call that motivated by sympathy for immigrants.

[N3bu]

Kaltros

N3bu

Kaltros

N3bu

Liberals aren't against secure borders. Liberals just have sympathy for people who want to immigrate to the US to start a better life (like you know, the entire philosophy of the United States for the past 300 years) but can't because the system is too ******** up and they have neither the funds or the right colour of skin to navigate it within a ten year window.

Sympathy, eh? Then why does a heavily blue, Democratic stronghold like NYC have a stop and frisk policy towards blacks and latinos:

Quote:

The New York Police Department released new data showing the vast majority of victims and perpetrators of violent crime in the city are black and Latino, in what experts said was likely part of a broader effort to defuse allegations of racial bias in the NYPD's stop-and-frisk policy.

The statistics, which cover crime in 2012 through the end of June, show that 96 percent of all shooting victims and 97 percent of all shooting suspects in the city were black or Latino. The report also shows that more than 90 percent of New Yorkers stopped and frisked so far in 2012 were black and Latino.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/nypd-report-details-crime_n_1862771.html

The same city that voted Rudolf Giuliani as mayor?

I should also mention that I don't know who is and isn't liberal in the United States and I'm sure plenty of Democrats aren't. It certainly doesn't mean they don't hold racial biases, I don't know why you would think otherwise.

Perhaps you have a different definition of liberal than I do. What is it? And anyway it seems to me like Democrats only profess sympathy for illegal immigrants in public. In reality the Democrats just want illegal immigrants for the reliable votes. Establishment Republicans aren't much better, though. Establishment Republicans just want illegals for cheap labor. In neither case, though, would I call that motivated by sympathy for immigrants.

Well first of your definition of Liberal is clearly Democrat. As I am not American, I'm not motivated to split along that party line. Liberals would of course be most at home voting for Democrats, but being a Political Party they are never going represent all the interests of liberals. Democrats have to after all play nice with Republicans and run the country on some kind of middle ground most of the time.

I can't speak for all Liberals, but as a Liberal I believe in the ability of people from poorer countries to try and make better starts in better countries. It also feels incredibly wrong to espouse an "America for Americans" policy (or Australia for Australians in my case) when the whole country was built and made prosperous on decades, even centuries of migrant labourers.

In Australia we have a very sad and disappointing chapter in our history that still persist in some manner, called the White Australia Policy. After a century of migration and settlement from the British Islands it was acknowledged in the early to mid twentieth century, that Australia needed Immigration, and they would accept poor non-British immigrants, so long as they were still white. To this day Australia puts asylum seekers in overcrowded camps on Islands in the Pacific and Indian Oceans just so they don't set foot on "our" land.

I can't help but draw parallels with America's own immigration system where nobody raises a single eyebrow about immigrants from any rich European country or Euro descendant. Hell even people from East Asia are given a fair go considering the wealth of their home countries these days. But Mexicans, they have some of the worst ******** sigma in America these days which only continues to feed into their inability to immigrate in a viscous cycle.

[Sen Natsu]

Never thought I'd have to use this here, but here it goes.

THIS ENTIRE THREAD:

[Plata Plomo y Sangre]

Kaltros

Tactical Leg Sweep

Kaltros

Tactical Leg Sweep

Quote:

Higher teen pregnancy rates, higher school dropout rates, more crime, more gangs, higher government corruption because Hispanics love to game the system and milk it as much as they can, refusal to assimilate into American culture, etc.:

Sources for all of it. I especially love the overt racism.

Quote:

No fewer than 53 percent of Hispanic girls get pregnant while they are teenagers—twice the national average. Hispanics are three times more likely than whites and twice as likely as blacks to drop out of high school. If they make it to 12th grade they read and do math, on average, at the level of the average white 8th grader. Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be in criminal youth gangs.

But these are dry statistics. There are better indicators of the “totally new place” Joe Biden is eager to get to.

It was recently reported that the school district in Salinas, California, has decided to name a new elementary school after Tiburcio Vasquez, a 19th century bandit who stabbed his first policeman at age 14, and was eventually hanged for murder. Naming committee member Francisco Estrada says Vasquez was framed by racist whites and that he can be “sort of a hero to us.”

Thanks to Hispanics, we have a new record: the youngest person ever to face the possibility of life in prison. Cristian Fernandez of Florida was 12 when he beat his 2-year-old brother to death. He already had a long record of violence, so prosecutors charged him as an adult in order to put him away for good. The courts are still squabbling over what to do the ironically named Cristian.

Hispanics have novel ideas about government. Ninety-six-percent-Hispanic Maywood, California, had to fire all city employees when it became the first California city ever to lose its insurance. It had an official population of 29,000, but this grew to an estimated 45,000 when it decided to become an official haven for illegal immigrants. City government ran the place into the ground and missed so many payments that the California Joint Powers Insurance Authority stopped its coverage. Maywood fired all its employees, right down to school crossing guards. Neighboring towns took up the slack.

Mexicans take corruption to virtuoso levels. Edward “Eddie” Espinoza, the former mayor of Columbus, New Mexico, went to prison for four years for buying weapons and bullet-proof vests for Mexican drug gangs, and letting a city trustee, Blaz Gutierrez, smuggle them across the border in city vehicles.

In Sunland Park, New Mexico, the feds arrested 12 people, including mayor-elect Daniel Salinas, on voter fraud, extortion, blackmail, and theft of public funds. One way Mr. Salinas won votes was to set up his opponent, Geraldo Hernandez, with hired female entertainment and take covert pictures. Just before the election, a video surfaced of Mr. Hernandez enjoying a lap dance with a topless Mexican stripper. The Salinas faction reportedly used city money to pay the stripper.

A lot of teachers have helped students cheat on tests so schools would look for No Child Left Behind, but ex-school superintendent Lorenzo Garcia of El Paso, Texas, may be the first person to go jail for it. He had an elaborate scheme for shuffling students around different grades and classes so that only the best ones ever took the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills. Miraculous scores meant annual bonuses for him. But now he has to pay $180,000 in restitution and will spend 3-1/2 years in prison.

There are lurid tales of sex and drugs in Latin American prisons, and some of that is now drifting our way. The maximum security Federal Detention Center in downtown Miami now has a regular flow of pretty young Hispanic women in tight clothes. Officially, they are on the books in lawyers’ offices as “legal assistants,” so they have the right to consult with jailed clients, but they offer a different kind of service. “Everyone knows about it,” says a private investigator. “We call them the ‘little hoochie mamas’.”

The push is on to make our Hispanic commonwealth, Puerto Rico, the 51st state. But that may require cultural adjustment: it is virtually impossible to get Puerto Rican businesses to pay sales tax. Doctors and lawyers take fees in cash to avoid taxes.

That is why the just-defeated Governor, Luis Fortuno, had a plan to turn Puerto Ricans into collection agents. He required machines in all businesses, into which customers drop their sales receipts. The machines read the receipt and figures out how much tax the business owes. And how to persuade Puerto Ricans to process their receipts? Each one has a 10-digit lottery number on it for twice-weekly drawings for $1,000 or a car.

Despite their 45 percent illegitimacy rate, Hispanics have an unaccountable reputation for family values. Police in Surprise, Arizona, got a call from an 11-year-old boy saying that his mom, Christina Muniz, had packed her bags and was about to run out on him and his 6-year-old brother. When an officer arrived, she cursed the boys. She said she wanted to dump them, move to California, and become a stripper. When the older boy tried to hug her, she punched him in the stomach.

Another family got off to a rocky start when Joseph Manzanares of Commerce City, Colorado stormed into the Hollywood Video store where the mother of his son worked—they weren’t married, of course—and threatened to kill her. He knocked over video displays and a computer before police got him. He and his baby-momma had had an argument about which gang their 4-year-old would join when he grew up.

There was family trouble in southwest Florida, when 17-year-old Rachel Anne Hachero got angry when her mother refused to co-sign a car loan. When they got home, Miss Hachero pulled out a stolen gun, pistol-whipped mom, and threatened to kill her if she didn’t drive back to the car dealer and sign that loan. Mom managed to contact the police, but later refused to press charges because she didn’t want to ruin her girl’s college prospects. Miss Hachero had already been accepted by several Ivy League colleges.

But some Hispanic families do show remarkable togetherness. Fabien Losoya of Texas took his pregnant common-law wife and his two small stepsons with him to burgle a house. He put the 8-year-old to work as a “lookout,” and sure enough, when police arrived he was shouting, “Dad, the cops are here.”

http://www.vdare.com/articles/joe-biden-wants-still-more-hispanics-no-american-patriot-can-agree

Yawn. Again, sources, and again, loving the overt racism.

The sources are included in the article. But perhaps you're too lazy to look into it, eh? But here you go:

High teen births for latinos, as well as higher dropout rates:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/19/latinas.pregnancy.rate/index.html

Quote:

According to the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy, 53 percent of Latinas get pregnant in their teens, about twice the national average.

After a period of decline, the birth rate for U.S. teenagers 15 to 19 years rose in 2007 by about 1 percent, to 42.5 births per 1,000, according to preliminary data in a March 2009 report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Health Statistics.

In 2007, the birth rate among non-Hispanic whites ages 15 to 19 was 27.2 per 1,000, and 64.3 per 1,000 for non-Hispanic black teens in the same age range. The teen birth rate among Hispanic teens ages 15 to 19 was 81.7 per 1,000.

The elementary school in California getting named after a notorious bandit:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2261028/Outrage-California-officials-new-elementary-school-gang-ridden-city-notorious-19th-century-outlaw-hanged-murders.html

Quote:

Tiburcio Vasquez was one of California's most notorious 19th century bandits, but that did not stop education officials in one county from voting unanimously to name a new school in his honor.

Come next August, children in Salinas will be heading to Tiburcio Vasquez Elementary School, unless the Alisal Union School District reconsiders its controversial naming choice.

The decision to celebrate the Gold Rush-era outlaw who was hanged for multiple murders and a long string of other crimes in 1875 sparked a public outcry when it was announced last month.

Law enforcement officials and even Salinas Mayor Joe Gunter insisted that the new school being built on the corner of Tuscany and Freedom Parkway in the city plagued by gang violence should bear the name of someone who was a positive role model, rather than a man best known for terrorizing Southern California over a century ago.

The mayor of a New Mexico town gave weapons to Mexican gangs:

Quote:

The mayor of a New Mexico town located near the U.S.-Mexican border, who had been convicted of smuggling weapons to a violent Mexican organized crime gang, was sentenced on Thursday to more than four years in prison, according to a police official.

Edward "Eddie" Espinoza, the now ousted mayor of Columbus, was sentenced by District Judge Robert Brack in federal court in Las Cruces, New Mexico, according to investigators.

In addition to the prison sentence, Judge Brack ordered three years of supervised release for Espinoza, who pleaded guilty in July 2011 to conspiracy, three counts of making false statements in the acquisition of firearms and three counts of smuggling firearms out of the United States into a foreign country.

The 58-year-old Democrat faced as much as 50 years in prison but was given a plea deal to identify his co-conspirators in the gun-running conspiracy.

You can read the rest for yourself. Your laziness is not my problem.

Which leaves out more crime, more gangs, more corruption.

You being a racist moron is not my problem. Either cite back up your bullshit or quit wasting my time. Also it says nothing about drop out rates.

Again, you're just being a lazy ********. The citations are found in the original article. Or, maybe, you know, you could strain your fingers for five seconds and look up some stuff yourself. Take the bandit, Tiburcio Vasquez. He has a Wikipedia page. Or are you too lazy to even know what Wikipedia is?

Even if I hadn't taken the time to look through the link to know you're full of s**t, it wouldn't be me who is the lazy ********. It's not my responsibility to go searching for proof of YOUR ******** claims. And? What does that have to do with anything? Does that provide proof for your bullshit claims? No. Keep swinging you dumb racist piece of s**t.

[Wendigo]

Origin of Wealth

N3bu

Liberals aren't against secure borders. Liberals just have sympathy for people who want to immigrate to the US to start a better life (like you know, the entire philosophy of the United States for the past 300 years) but can't because the system is too ******** up and they have neither the funds or the right colour of skin to navigate it within a ten year window.

So being for open borders as part of a Pro-Globalization agenda isn't Liberal?

Eh?

The Maquiladoras are globalization. Immigration is not.

[HMS Thunder Child]

Tactical Leg Sweep

Disa Uniflora

GunsmithKitten

Disa Uniflora

People who think guns make people safer live in this fantasy world where they're all action heroes and can take down anyone who gets the drop on them and nobody ever does anything irresponsible with said guns.

As much as i have zero respect for people who think that having a firearm does make them an action hero, tell me, when you consider that the police in this country can legally sit by and watch me get raped and murdered while not doing a thing, and even if they did, would take over an hour to respond to a call for aid, how much safer am I when another line of defense is taken from me?

You're not, but then you're not especially less safe either unless rapists and murderers declare their intentions and go about their business in a fair-minded, sporting manner. That the world doesn't work that way probably helps explain why the United States has a rather high number of reported rapes, though who can really say how useful rape statistics even are. Take the availability of firearms to potential rapists and murderers, as well as their greater moral proclivity/cause to use such firearms, and your security is even more greatly diminished, enough so that arguments like this don't typically sway me as much they'd perhaps be expected to. The fact of the matter is that there will always be crime in this world, regardless of whether there is gun control or not, and to anyone who supports gun control the thought of reversing themselves because crime can still occur is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. As an occupant of a country organised under such a principle, my first thought when someone is raped is not of how they could've been better equipped to defend themselves but rather about the police response/behaviour of any bystanders, and I rely on their possessing your average non-lethal means of self-defence. That is just where the cultural difference between our cultures comes into play. That difference in our culture is the reason why I'm also quite certain that advocates of the right to bear arms in America really don't have cause for alarm, though I can understand where such alarm comes from when talk of executive orders is loosely bandied about as though it means nothing.

I wouldn't bother. Gunsmith cannot with any hard evidence back up the claim that police will sit by and watch her "get raped" and "murdered", nor that they'll take an hour to respond to a call. The fact is she's delusional, probably because she insists that because she lives in a bigoted area (ironically having shown some pretty bigoted opinions herself towards certain minorities) means the world is out to rape and kill her despite what would be the simple solution of moving out of whatever whiskey tango shithole she lives in to a more progressively minded place. Moreover it's probably not in small part due to the fact that she seemingly watches too many Bronson movies and has openly stated she supports vigilantism and has argued extensively in its favor to replace rule of law.

[Confused]

You do know that the DC Appeals Court passed down a ruling that the Police Services are not obligated to help individual citizens, right?

Warren v. District of Columbia (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981) is an oft-quoted District of Columbia Court of Appeals (equivalent to a state supreme court) case that held police do not have a duty to provide police services to individuals, even if a dispatcher promises help to be on the way, except when police develop a special duty to particular individuals.

[Annoyed]

She is a gay woman in a rather homophobic zone of the country. Considering precedent of police ignoring minorities pleas for help, if not flat out victimizing them, I fail to see how she's being paranoid.

Also, what makes you think she and her partner have the means to just up and move? It's not exactly the easiest or cheapest thing in the world to do.

[Kaltros]

Tactical Leg Sweep

Kaltros

Tactical Leg Sweep

Kaltros

Tactical Leg Sweep

Sources for all of it. I especially love the overt racism.


Yawn. Again, sources, and again, loving the overt racism.

The sources are included in the article. But perhaps you're too lazy to look into it, eh? But here you go:

High teen births for latinos, as well as higher dropout rates:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/19/latinas.pregnancy.rate/index.html

Quote:

According to the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy, 53 percent of Latinas get pregnant in their teens, about twice the national average.

After a period of decline, the birth rate for U.S. teenagers 15 to 19 years rose in 2007 by about 1 percent, to 42.5 births per 1,000, according to preliminary data in a March 2009 report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Health Statistics.

In 2007, the birth rate among non-Hispanic whites ages 15 to 19 was 27.2 per 1,000, and 64.3 per 1,000 for non-Hispanic black teens in the same age range. The teen birth rate among Hispanic teens ages 15 to 19 was 81.7 per 1,000.

The elementary school in California getting named after a notorious bandit:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2261028/Outrage-California-officials-new-elementary-school-gang-ridden-city-notorious-19th-century-outlaw-hanged-murders.html

Quote:

Tiburcio Vasquez was one of California's most notorious 19th century bandits, but that did not stop education officials in one county from voting unanimously to name a new school in his honor.

Come next August, children in Salinas will be heading to Tiburcio Vasquez Elementary School, unless the Alisal Union School District reconsiders its controversial naming choice.

The decision to celebrate the Gold Rush-era outlaw who was hanged for multiple murders and a long string of other crimes in 1875 sparked a public outcry when it was announced last month.

Law enforcement officials and even Salinas Mayor Joe Gunter insisted that the new school being built on the corner of Tuscany and Freedom Parkway in the city plagued by gang violence should bear the name of someone who was a positive role model, rather than a man best known for terrorizing Southern California over a century ago.

The mayor of a New Mexico town gave weapons to Mexican gangs:

Quote:

The mayor of a New Mexico town located near the U.S.-Mexican border, who had been convicted of smuggling weapons to a violent Mexican organized crime gang, was sentenced on Thursday to more than four years in prison, according to a police official.

Edward "Eddie" Espinoza, the now ousted mayor of Columbus, was sentenced by District Judge Robert Brack in federal court in Las Cruces, New Mexico, according to investigators.

In addition to the prison sentence, Judge Brack ordered three years of supervised release for Espinoza, who pleaded guilty in July 2011 to conspiracy, three counts of making false statements in the acquisition of firearms and three counts of smuggling firearms out of the United States into a foreign country.

The 58-year-old Democrat faced as much as 50 years in prison but was given a plea deal to identify his co-conspirators in the gun-running conspiracy.

You can read the rest for yourself. Your laziness is not my problem.

Which leaves out more crime, more gangs, more corruption.

You being a racist moron is not my problem. Either cite back up your bullshit or quit wasting my time. Also it says nothing about drop out rates.

Again, you're just being a lazy ********. The citations are found in the original article. Or, maybe, you know, you could strain your fingers for five seconds and look up some stuff yourself. Take the bandit, Tiburcio Vasquez. He has a Wikipedia page. Or are you too lazy to even know what Wikipedia is?

Even if I hadn't taken the time to look through the link to know you're full of s**t, it wouldn't be me who is the lazy ********. It's not my responsibility to go searching for proof of YOUR ******** claims. And? What does that have to do with anything? Does that provide proof for your bullshit claims? No. Keep swinging you dumb racist piece of s**t.

Namecalling doesn't count as a rebuttal of my original posts, you lazy son of a b***h. Stop acting like a brainless zombie groaning 'raciss!' all the time. Your decayed jaw is ready to fall off.

[Kaltros]

N3bu

Kaltros

N3bu

Kaltros

N3bu

Liberals aren't against secure borders. Liberals just have sympathy for people who want to immigrate to the US to start a better life (like you know, the entire philosophy of the United States for the past 300 years) but can't because the system is too ******** up and they have neither the funds or the right colour of skin to navigate it within a ten year window.

Sympathy, eh? Then why does a heavily blue, Democratic stronghold like NYC have a stop and frisk policy towards blacks and latinos:

Quote:

The New York Police Department released new data showing the vast majority of victims and perpetrators of violent crime in the city are black and Latino, in what experts said was likely part of a broader effort to defuse allegations of racial bias in the NYPD's stop-and-frisk policy.

The statistics, which cover crime in 2012 through the end of June, show that 96 percent of all shooting victims and 97 percent of all shooting suspects in the city were black or Latino. The report also shows that more than 90 percent of New Yorkers stopped and frisked so far in 2012 were black and Latino.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/nypd-report-details-crime_n_1862771.html

The same city that voted Rudolf Giuliani as mayor?

I should also mention that I don't know who is and isn't liberal in the United States and I'm sure plenty of Democrats aren't. It certainly doesn't mean they don't hold racial biases, I don't know why you would think otherwise.

Perhaps you have a different definition of liberal than I do. What is it? And anyway it seems to me like Democrats only profess sympathy for illegal immigrants in public. In reality the Democrats just want illegal immigrants for the reliable votes. Establishment Republicans aren't much better, though. Establishment Republicans just want illegals for cheap labor. In neither case, though, would I call that motivated by sympathy for immigrants.

Well first of your definition of Liberal is clearly Democrat.

Not exactly. Democrats in the US have commandeered the word for themselves and tend to use them interchangeably. But I realize that the word might mean different things in other countries. It's my definition for "Modern U.S. Liberal" if you like.

Quote:

I can't speak for all Liberals, but as a Liberal I believe in the ability of people from poorer countries to try and make better starts in better countries. It also feels incredibly wrong to espouse an "America for Americans" policy (or Australia for Australians in my case) when the whole country was built and made prosperous on decades, even centuries of migrant labourers.

So what's your view about national borders (legitimate / anybody can immigrate anywhere without restriction / other) ? Do you support illegal immigration? Would you consider support for illegal immigration part of the liberal viewpoint?

Quote:

In Australia we have a very sad and disappointing chapter in our history that still persist in some manner, called the White Australia Policy. After a century of migration and settlement from the British Islands it was acknowledged in the early to mid twentieth century, that Australia needed Immigration, and they would accept poor non-British immigrants, so long as they were still white. To this day Australia puts asylum seekers in overcrowded camps on Islands in the Pacific and Indian Oceans just so they don't set foot on "our" land.

I can't help but draw parallels with America's own immigration system where nobody raises a single eyebrow about immigrants from any rich European country or Euro descendant. Hell even people from East Asia are given a fair go considering the wealth of their home countries these days. But Mexicans, they have some of the worst ******** sigma in America these days which only continues to feed into their inability to immigrate in a viscous cycle.

Hmm. Do you see no difference in the quality of immigrants, then? No significant social and cultural differences? Do you see no difference at all, for instance, between a poor Irishman and a poor Somali in social and cultural terms?

And why do you consider the White Australia Policy bad?

[HMS Thunder Child]

Kaltros

And why do you consider the White Australia Policy bad?

[Angry]

Are you serious?

[N3bu]

Kaltros

N3bu

Kaltros

N3bu

Kaltros

Sympathy, eh? Then why does a heavily blue, Democratic stronghold like NYC have a stop and frisk policy towards blacks and latinos:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/nypd-report-details-crime_n_1862771.html

The same city that voted Rudolf Giuliani as mayor?

I should also mention that I don't know who is and isn't liberal in the United States and I'm sure plenty of Democrats aren't. It certainly doesn't mean they don't hold racial biases, I don't know why you would think otherwise.

Perhaps you have a different definition of liberal than I do. What is it? And anyway it seems to me like Democrats only profess sympathy for illegal immigrants in public. In reality the Democrats just want illegal immigrants for the reliable votes. Establishment Republicans aren't much better, though. Establishment Republicans just want illegals for cheap labor. In neither case, though, would I call that motivated by sympathy for immigrants.

Well first of your definition of Liberal is clearly Democrat.

Not exactly. Democrats in the US have commandeered the word for themselves and tend to use them interchangeably. But I realize that the word might mean different things in other countries. It's my definition for "Modern U.S. Liberal" if you like.

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I can't speak for all Liberals, but as a Liberal I believe in the ability of people from poorer countries to try and make better starts in better countries. It also feels incredibly wrong to espouse an "America for Americans" policy (or Australia for Australians in my case) when the whole country was built and made prosperous on decades, even centuries of migrant labourers.

So what's your view about national borders (legitimate / anybody can immigrate anywhere without restriction / other) ? Do you support illegal immigration? Would you consider support for illegal immigration part of the liberal viewpoint?

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In Australia we have a very sad and disappointing chapter in our history that still persist in some manner, called the White Australia Policy. After a century of migration and settlement from the British Islands it was acknowledged in the early to mid twentieth century, that Australia needed Immigration, and they would accept poor non-British immigrants, so long as they were still white. To this day Australia puts asylum seekers in overcrowded camps on Islands in the Pacific and Indian Oceans just so they don't set foot on "our" land.

I can't help but draw parallels with America's own immigration system where nobody raises a single eyebrow about immigrants from any rich European country or Euro descendant. Hell even people from East Asia are given a fair go considering the wealth of their home countries these days. But Mexicans, they have some of the worst ******** sigma in America these days which only continues to feed into their inability to immigrate in a viscous cycle.

Hmm. Do you see no difference in the quality of immigrants, then? No significant social and cultural differences? Do you see no difference at all, for instance, between a poor Irishman and a poor Somali in social and cultural terms?

And why do you consider the White Australia Policy bad?

My "support" for illegal immigration only exist so far as I recognise that the problem has to do with an immigration system that is too strict to deal with the demand for immigration. My solution to illegal immigration would be characterised as "open borders" by Republicans even though that not actually it. There are certain realities that must be addressed immigration, customs for example, to ensure that people don't smuggle contraband, but that can still be achieved without making immigration take years, costing a family it's entire worth or enacting quotas.

I grew up in a multicultural society, I find actively differentiating between immigrants by their place of birth as some kind of quality control as hilariously racist that almost always assume that Europeans are of good quality and that if nothing else, green speaks of good quality.

I live amongst first, second and third generation immigrants from Japan, China, Malaysia, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Vietnam, South Africa, Britain, Brazil, The US, India, Pakistan and Iraq. I consider the White Australia an blight on our history where our people and our government considered Asiatic and pacific people of lesser descent fit only to work on banana plantations.