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pockybot
Im a lifelong liberal and I KNOW communism is bad. Even if its not mass murderers like Mao, Stalin, etc. its a total controlled nanny state that goes against the individual.

Hmm, sounds kind of like the US, UK, and dozens of other capitalist countries. The kings of wealth redistribution, despite their being directionally challenged. They are highly specialized in nannying corporations at the expense of letting individuals reach their potential. In fact, I would say the global capitalist economy is responsible for most, if not all, of the material deprivation experienced in poor countries. Then there's that world record-breaking prison population we have in the Land of the Freeā„¢, the tremendous surveillance apparatus that would make any of those "commie" ******** jealous, and the dozens and dozens of military bases the US has all over the planet.
Ban
A lot of local economies depend on migrant labor, and "secure borders" is just a shortsighted attempt to stem that migrant labor. What might require security, the whole drug thing you pointed out, would be more easily and cheaply solved by domestic solutions, such as a better drug policy and maybe not supplying Mexican cartels with 90% of the guns that they use. The black market for handguns, and semi-auto rifles easily convertible into fully-automatic weapons is fueled by U.S. manufacturing and gun stores.

This is without mentioning the fact that I've shut pocky the ******** up with studies like the one detailed here by the FBI that show the U.S-American border to be amongst the safest areas in the country.

Yet Pocky will keep blathering on about the ebil cartels and how badly we need to "secure" the border. Now he's talking about evil socialism. But he's TOTALLY MORE LIBERAL THAN ANY OF YOU GAWD.
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GunsmithKitten
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People who think guns make people safer live in this fantasy world where they're all action heroes and can take down anyone who gets the drop on them and nobody ever does anything irresponsible with said guns.


As much as i have zero respect for people who think that having a firearm does make them an action hero, tell me, when you consider that the police in this country can legally sit by and watch me get raped and murdered while not doing a thing, and even if they did, would take over an hour to respond to a call for aid, how much safer am I when another line of defense is taken from me?

You're not, but then you're not especially less safe either unless rapists and murderers declare their intentions and go about their business in a fair-minded, sporting manner. That the world doesn't work that way probably helps explain why the United States has a rather high number of reported rapes, though who can really say how useful rape statistics even are. Take the availability of firearms to potential rapists and murderers, as well as their greater moral proclivity/cause to use such firearms, and your security is even more greatly diminished, enough so that arguments like this don't typically sway me as much they'd perhaps be expected to. The fact of the matter is that there will always be crime in this world, regardless of whether there is gun control or not, and to anyone who supports gun control the thought of reversing themselves because crime can still occur is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. As an occupant of a country organised under such a principle, my first thought when someone is raped is not of how they could've been better equipped to defend themselves but rather about the police response/behaviour of any bystanders, and I rely on their possessing your average non-lethal means of self-defence. That is just where the cultural difference between our cultures comes into play. That difference in our culture is the reason why I'm also quite certain that advocates of the right to bear arms in America really don't have cause for alarm, though I can understand where such alarm comes from when talk of executive orders is loosely bandied about as though it means nothing.
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This thread is funny, maybe Pocky should post more often. I know, the notion seems mad even to me.
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GunsmithKitten
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People who think guns make people safer live in this fantasy world where they're all action heroes and can take down anyone who gets the drop on them and nobody ever does anything irresponsible with said guns.


As much as i have zero respect for people who think that having a firearm does make them an action hero, tell me, when you consider that the police in this country can legally sit by and watch me get raped and murdered while not doing a thing, and even if they did, would take over an hour to respond to a call for aid, how much safer am I when another line of defense is taken from me?

You're not, but then you're not especially less safe either unless rapists and murderers declare their intentions and go about their business in a fair-minded, sporting manner. That the world doesn't work that way probably helps explain why the United States has a rather high number of reported rapes, though who can really say how useful rape statistics even are. Take the availability of firearms to potential rapists and murderers, as well as their greater moral proclivity/cause to use such firearms, and your security is even more greatly diminished, enough so that arguments like this don't typically sway me as much they'd perhaps be expected to. The fact of the matter is that there will always be crime in this world, regardless of whether there is gun control or not, and to anyone who supports gun control the thought of reversing themselves because crime can still occur is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. As an occupant of a country organised under such a principle, my first thought when someone is raped is not of how they could've been better equipped to defend themselves but rather about the police response/behaviour of any bystanders, and I rely on their possessing your average non-lethal means of self-defence. That is just where the cultural difference between our cultures comes into play. That difference in our culture is the reason why I'm also quite certain that advocates of the right to bear arms in America really don't have cause for alarm, though I can understand where such alarm comes from when talk of executive orders is loosely bandied about as though it means nothing.

I wouldn't bother. Gunsmith cannot with any hard evidence back up the claim that police will sit by and watch her "get raped" and "murdered", nor that they'll take an hour to respond to a call. The fact is she's delusional, probably because she insists that because she lives in a bigoted area (ironically having shown some pretty bigoted opinions herself towards certain minorities) means the world is out to rape and kill her despite what would be the simple solution of moving out of whatever whiskey tango shithole she lives in to a more progressively minded place. Moreover it's probably not in small part due to the fact that she seemingly watches too many Bronson movies and has openly stated she supports vigilantism and has argued extensively in its favor to replace rule of law.
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I don't think anyone is grabbing guns they just want some reasonable restrictions.

Guns are one of the most dangerous marketable items, there are more restrictions on birth control and abortions than there are on guns and guns are more obtainable than either.

There needs to be more careful background checks, limits on hoarding, limits on how commerce on guns is being conducted.

I have nothing against them, I would never own one, but I am not about to go grabbing them, but I don't think they should be flowing in availability as freely as they do.

There is a difference between a responsible person owning a gun to protect themselves and an obsessed gun-nut, who is not mentally stable and can harm society.

We need to do everything we can to protect the people from the latter.
pockybot


And then, forget the war on invisible phantom jihadists. Ranchers with cameras have shown video evidence of countless ak-47 armed drug smugglers flood into the border states, criss crossing back and forth hawking their poison. Why the heck wouldnt liberals support having an undeniably strong border? It's nigh time.


Because of short-sighted political reasons. Democrats have noticed that Mexican immigrants tend to be a reliable voting demographic for them. So they figure, "More Mexicans, more Democrats winning elections! We're gonna let these illegals pour in so we can elect ourselves a new people."

The Democrats either don't know or don't care about the bad effects of all those poor Mexicans pouring into the country.
Kaltros
pockybot


And then, forget the war on invisible phantom jihadists. Ranchers with cameras have shown video evidence of countless ak-47 armed drug smugglers flood into the border states, criss crossing back and forth hawking their poison. Why the heck wouldnt liberals support having an undeniably strong border? It's nigh time.


Because of short-sighted political reasons. Democrats have noticed that Mexican immigrants tend to be a reliable voting demographic for them. So they figure, "More Mexicans, more Democrats winning elections! We're gonna let these illegals pour in so we can elect ourselves a new people."

The Democrats either don't know or don't care about the bad effects of all those poor Mexicans pouring into the country.

Like the bad effects of all those other poor immigrants that have poured into America over the years?
Kaltros
pockybot


And then, forget the war on invisible phantom jihadists. Ranchers with cameras have shown video evidence of countless ak-47 armed drug smugglers flood into the border states, criss crossing back and forth hawking their poison. Why the heck wouldnt liberals support having an undeniably strong border? It's nigh time.


Because of short-sighted political reasons. Democrats have noticed that Mexican immigrants tend to be a reliable voting demographic for them. So they figure, "More Mexicans, more Democrats winning elections! We're gonna let these illegals pour in so we can elect ourselves a new people."

The Democrats either don't know or don't care about the bad effects of all those poor Mexicans pouring into the country.

Yeah? Like what, pray tell?
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Kaltros
pockybot


And then, forget the war on invisible phantom jihadists. Ranchers with cameras have shown video evidence of countless ak-47 armed drug smugglers flood into the border states, criss crossing back and forth hawking their poison. Why the heck wouldnt liberals support having an undeniably strong border? It's nigh time.


Because of short-sighted political reasons. Democrats have noticed that Mexican immigrants tend to be a reliable voting demographic for them. So they figure, "More Mexicans, more Democrats winning elections! We're gonna let these illegals pour in so we can elect ourselves a new people."

The Democrats either don't know or don't care about the bad effects of all those poor Mexicans pouring into the country.
I remember this, I read about it once in school.
Wendigo
I'm against "secure borders" because the people who say that just don't want Mexicans to immigrate, and don't have the balls to just say so and argue that on its own merits, because they know they'd lose.


I love Mexicans. Hispanic families are light years more together than most white american families. And Hispanics are some of the most hard working people I've met.

But Im sure even the ones who crossed over here illegally will tell you they are sick to death
of the ultra violent drug smuggling cartels.

I mean, Bush and Obama went on and freaking on about "the threat of al Qaeda", yet we got a wide open border where cartels responsible for the death of 60,000+ people in recent years cross over like it's nothing. And I wont even get into "Fast and Furious"
GunsmithKitten
Disa Uniflora
People who think guns make people safer live in this fantasy world where they're all action heroes and can take down anyone who gets the drop on them and nobody ever does anything irresponsible with said guns.


As much as i have zero respect for people who think that having a firearm does make them an action hero, tell me, when you consider that the police in this country can legally sit by and watch me get raped and murdered while not doing a thing, and even if they did, would take over an hour to respond to a call for aid, how much safer am I when another line of defense is taken from me?


Your words prove to me why more liberals should be PRO 2nd amendment. I consider gun rights a very leftist thing.
Wendigo
pockybot

And then this virulent hatred of anyone who warns of communism/totalitarian socialism.
Also, just for the record, and because this thread looks like a gem so far...

You know who also did that? Adolf Hitler. It's true! This here is from his acceptance speech:

Quote:
All about us the warning signs of this collapse are apparent. Communism with its method of madness is making a powerful and insidious attack upon our dismayed and shattered nation. It seeks to poison and disrupt in order to hurl us into an epoch of chaos.... This negative, destroying spirit spared nothing of all that is highest and most valuable. Beginning with the family, it has undermined the very foundations of morality and faith and scoffs at culture and business, nation and Fatherland, justice and honor. Fourteen years of Marxism have ruined Germany; one year of bolshevism would destroy her. The richest and fairest territories of the world would be turned into a smoking heap of ruins. Even the sufferings of the last decade and a half could not be compared to the misery of a Europe in the heart of which the red flag of destruction had been hoisted. The thousands of wounded, the hundreds of dead which this inner strife has already cost Germany should be a warning of the storm which would come....

In those hours when our hearts were troubled about the life and the future of the German nation, the aged leader of the World War appealed to us. He called to those of us in nationalist parties and leagues to struggle under him once more, in unity and loyalty, for the salvation of the German nation. This time the front lines are at home. The venerable Reichsprasident has allied himself with us in this noble endeavor. And as leaders of the nation and the national Government we vow to God, to our conscience, and to our people that we will faithfully and resolutely fulfill the task conferred upon us.


Fun times, ain't it?


Kind of funny too, how Mao, Stalin, and other communist regimes killed many times more people than Hitler did. Oh wait, that's not funny

Fascism/Communism: Two sides of the same evil coin my friend.
(Btw, financial elites were financing BOTH Hitler and the Communists, so the joke was on Hitler)
Tactical Leg Sweep
Ban
A lot of local economies depend on migrant labor, and "secure borders" is just a shortsighted attempt to stem that migrant labor. What might require security, the whole drug thing you pointed out, would be more easily and cheaply solved by domestic solutions, such as a better drug policy and maybe not supplying Mexican cartels with 90% of the guns that they use. The black market for handguns, and semi-auto rifles easily convertible into fully-automatic weapons is fueled by U.S. manufacturing and gun stores.

This is without mentioning the fact that I've shut pocky the ******** up with studies like the one detailed here by the FBI that show the U.S-American border to be amongst the safest areas in the country.

Yet Pocky will keep blathering on about the ebil cartels and how badly we need to "secure" the border. Now he's talking about evil socialism. But he's TOTALLY MORE LIBERAL THAN ANY OF YOU GAWD.


So the footage from ranches of streams of weapon carrying illegals is doctored?

Next you'll be telling me Im wrong about the entire war on terror being an overblown hoax
pockybot
Tactical Leg Sweep
Ban
A lot of local economies depend on migrant labor, and "secure borders" is just a shortsighted attempt to stem that migrant labor. What might require security, the whole drug thing you pointed out, would be more easily and cheaply solved by domestic solutions, such as a better drug policy and maybe not supplying Mexican cartels with 90% of the guns that they use. The black market for handguns, and semi-auto rifles easily convertible into fully-automatic weapons is fueled by U.S. manufacturing and gun stores.

This is without mentioning the fact that I've shut pocky the ******** up with studies like the one detailed here by the FBI that show the U.S-American border to be amongst the safest areas in the country.

Yet Pocky will keep blathering on about the ebil cartels and how badly we need to "secure" the border. Now he's talking about evil socialism. But he's TOTALLY MORE LIBERAL THAN ANY OF YOU GAWD.


So the footage from ranches of streams of weapon carrying illegals is doctored?

Next you'll be telling me Im wrong about the entire war on terror being an overblown hoax

Well considering we actually invaded Afghanistan, and not like Colorado pretending it was Afghanistan (like you probably think we did with the moon), I'd have to say it's not much of a hoax.

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