stupid reasons for surrendering pets

[JaziSnake]

Krissim Klaw

Shanna66

and honestly, if i had a kid and stowrm bit them, i wouldnt get rid of stowrm. my mother would bring feral cats home when i was little and i got beat up a few times. it helped me learn how to respect an animal

I'm not sure the young kids who have been severely disfigured because a dog took a huge bite out of their face would see that as teaching them to respect animals. If I had kids and a new dog I brought into the family laid teeth on one of my kids, they dog would be gone too. Aggression over food/other resources isn't something I am willing to tolerate in a dog living with kids.

I was a kid that got bit by a family dog that was not rehomed. Twice! In a one bite rule neighborhood.

It taught me to evaluate and read dog body language better. It taught me how to evaluate and control bite instances. It taught me respect for the dogs and also how to tell the difference between a "controllable" bite and a "unforgivable" bite.

I was bitten once on the foot (for stepping on her) and once on the hand (for trying to play tug with her most precious toy that I knew she went nasty-face at the other dogs over) by the same dog. I was hospitalized for both and had to stay for about a week for the hand due to infection and complications. There was a very real discussion about having to put her down. I begged and sobbed and pleaded with the doctors and animal control not to "take my doggy away". It was my fault and I knew it. Both times. I managed to get Pooch another year of life before she was dx'd with liver cancer.

I would manage a biting dog unless the dog was unstable and a danger to itself and unable to be helped. Most resource guarders don't fit that category.

Funny enough between the two bites I went through a period of hating the dogs. Not because I was afraid of them- I was anything but, always was playing with one or the other- but because I was too young and small to work or walk them and it frustrated me that they'd run around and knock me over and they didn't listen to me worth spit. Not because I was afraid they would bite me again or because I was mad that they kept the biting dog. I knew I shouldn't have stepped on her and I knew after that I shouldn't take a toy from a guarder.

[Krissim Klaw]

JaziSnake

I was a kid that got bit by a family dog that was not rehomed. Twice! In a one bite rule neighborhood.

It taught me to evaluate and read dog body language better. It taught me how to evaluate and control bite instances. It taught me respect for the dogs and also how to tell the difference between a "controllable" bite and a "unforgivable" bite.

I was bitten once on the foot (for stepping on her) and once on the hand (for trying to play tug with her most precious toy that I knew she went nasty-face at the other dogs over) by the same dog. I was hospitalized for both and had to stay for about a week for the hand due to infection and complications. There was a very real discussion about having to put her down. I begged and sobbed and pleaded with the doctors and animal control not to "take my doggy away". It was my fault and I knew it. Both times. I managed to get Pooch another year of life before she was dx'd with liver cancer.

I would manage a biting dog unless the dog was unstable and a danger to itself and unable to be helped. Most resource guarders don't fit that category.

Funny enough between the two bites I went through a period of hating the dogs. Not because I was afraid of them- I was anything but, always was playing with one or the other- but because I was too young and small to work or walk them and it frustrated me that they'd run around and knock me over and they didn't listen to me worth spit. Not because I was afraid they would bite me again or because I was mad that they kept the biting dog. I knew I shouldn't have stepped on her and I knew after that I shouldn't take a toy from a guarder.

Your story sort of proves my point. Your dog was nearly put down. You ended up in the hospital, could have lost a hand, arm, more. You were also bitten twice, not once, twice. This means the adults in the situation where not able to prevent it from happening again. Assuming you were an actual child here, it wasn't your fault. It was the adults in charge who were at fault. Kids do kid things just like dogs do dog things. It isn't a matter of if but when.

Personally I don't find it worth the risk to try and keep a dog that isn't well suited for a home with children around children. I'm not willing to risk letting a child be severely injured because I wanted to keep a dog I knew was a high risk in the home. Likewise, I don't find it very fair to the dog.

[JaziSnake]

Krissim Klaw

Your story sort of proves my point. Your dog was nearly put down. You ended up in the hospital, could have lost a hand, arm, more. You were also bitten twice, not once, twice. This means the adults in the situation where not able to prevent it from happening again. Assuming you were an actual child here, it wasn't your fault. It was the adults in charge who were at fault. Kids do kid things just like dogs do dog things. It isn't a matter of if but when.

Personally I don't find it worth the risk to try and keep a dog that isn't well suited for a home with children around children. I'm not willing to risk letting a child be severely injured because I wanted to keep a dog I knew was a high risk in the home. Likewise, I don't find it very fair to the dog.

Between the ages of 4 and 8.

My parents were right there. In fact, in the process of telling me NOT to do what I was about to do. Kids are stupid and think they know more than their parents and disobey all the time. Sometimes a parent can intervene before the kid gets itself hurt, sometimes they are intervening and the dog/car/fire/etc is faster than them. You never disobeyed your parents doing something dangerous like thinking you could put your hands on the oven/in a fire or running across the street by yourself? You must have been a perfect angel wink it was my fault. I'd decided to do something I was in the process of actively being reprimanded for and I learned the hard way and learned to respect these animals.

Notice when I learned to respect her space the hard way, it wasn't a problem anymore. She was still very much a part of our family until her cancer got her.

And- the two incidents aren't similar bites. She bit me first because I'd hurt her. The second bite was over her toy. Learned the lesson and didn't get told off for the same reason again. Keeping her around after the first bite which was something I'd expect any dog to do (srsly I put my whole weight on my foot on her ribcage after being TOLD not to and was in the process physically removed from the situation) would not have changed the second bite situation because I didn't do that again and it was a stupid thing to do. She may have gone on to a different home and the resource guarding issue may have come up there and she'd still have been at risk for being put down.

I don't want to have children so I'll never have to deal with combining kids and dogs. I personally don't fault my parents for keeping Pooch around. I feel like I learned a lot during those years with her about respecting dogs that demand it. She died at the ripe old age of 13 when I was in 4th grade.

[Krissim Klaw]

JaziSnake

Between the ages of 4 and 8.

My parents were right there. In fact, in the process of telling me NOT to do what I was about to do. Kids are stupid and think they know more than their parents and disobey all the time. Sometimes a parent can intervene before the kid gets itself hurt, sometimes they are intervening and the dog/car/fire/etc is faster than them. You never disobeyed your parents doing something dangerous like thinking you could put your hands on the oven/in a fire or running across the street by yourself? You must have been a perfect angel wink it was my fault. I'd decided to do something I was in the process of actively being reprimanded for and I learned the hard way and learned to respect these animals.

I feel you are missing the point of my above post. I just said, kids will be kids and dogs will be dogs. The fact is, I know there is no way to always be able to move fast enough to be in between a child and dog that are allowed to interact on a regular basis. That, is why I feel it is so important to not mix a high bite risk dog with a child. It has nothing to do about the child needing to be an angel. I know they won't be, just like I know a dog with poor bite inhibition is likely to draw blood when that time comes. At four and eight you were not able to properly appreciate the risks behind your actions or obviously you wouldn't have done them.

Personally, I don't think a child needs to be badly injured to learn. I mean I'm not going to let a child eat rat poison to learn it can kill you or stick their hand in scolding water to learn it is hot. I grew up around a ton of animals, learned to respect them, and didn't need to be bitten to do so.

JaziSnake

Notice when I learned to respect her space the hard way, it wasn't a problem anymore. She was still very much a part of our family until her cancer got her.

And- the two incidents aren't similar bites. She bit me first because I'd hurt her. The second bite was over her toy. Learned the lesson and didn't get told off for the same reason again. Keeping her around after the first bite which was something I'd expect any dog to do (srsly I put my whole weight on my foot on her ribcage after being TOLD not to and was in the process physically removed from the situation) would not have changed the second bite situation because I didn't do that again and it was a stupid thing to do. She may have gone on to a different home and the resource guarding issue may have come up there and she'd still have been at risk for being put down.

I don't want to have children so I'll never have to deal with combining kids and dogs. I personally don't fault my parents for keeping Pooch around. I feel like I learned a lot during those years with her about respecting dogs that demand it. She died at the ripe old age of 13 when I was in 4th grade.

The bites not being similar almost makes it worse. It shows the dog was willing to use teeth for a variety of reasons.

Now, I am glad it worked out for you. I'm sure if I was a kid and was bitten badly by the family dog I wouldn't want to loose the dog either. As an adult, I wouldn't want to put a kid in the sort of situation where they would ever have to feel it is their fault the family dog may have to go away.

I don't plan on having children either, but since I am still young enough to change my mind, I have made the choice not to take on any animals that I wouldn't be able to trust as family pets. As an adult I feel it is my responsibility to think about these things in advance so there is far less of a risk of ever needing to rehome or put down an animal to begin with.

[Shanna66]

Krissim Klaw

Latrans

Shanna66

Ww dont even ask that!

If their residence allows the animal and they have the money then thats it. Drives me insane

Isn't that the norm for county shelters?

I don't know, some shelters these days seem to think you are renting the animal at best and they should have the right to stop in and take back the animal at anytime if they deem you unworthy. I personally wouldn't adopt from such a place just like I wouldn't buy from a breeder like that.

Same. Thats why I avoided certain ferret rescues

I just want us to have some proof people live where they say they live and maybe us give a phone call after a few weeks and not adopt out to people who currently have their other animals tied up in a court case. I dont think thats being too strict at all

[JaziSnake]

I'm no old man- I just know I won't change my mind on kids.

I just think that every situation is different and a blanket rule of "bite = rehome" is unwarranted or complicates things further in many cases. Remember this was back in the 90s. No widespread internet resources to network since most families had dialup or no internet at all. The local shelters and rescues would have put her down due to the first bite. Trainers were around to work with her- but in a situation where a dog is hurt and bites the source of the pain, what training is there to be had? How exactly do you think we could have gotten her to any safer home than with us, people who knew her and her then senior dog ways, with the very kid she bit vouching for her having known her for so long? She was already 8 at the time of her first bite. No one /now/ 20 years later wants a biting senior. They sure as hell didn't want a biting senior then either.

Sorry, if I'm in the process of removing a child from my animal and the kid whips around and does it again and gets nailed, that kid obviously needed to learn the hard way. Some lessons can't be taught to some kids any other way. Every child is different and me needing a different method of "don't do that" than you is no exception. I'm not saying to purposely let a situation like that happen. I'm saying some kids don't get it the first 20 times until their parents are proven right and wow maybe that was something dumb to do. Same as a kid not listening to several "that's hot, don't touch the stove, it'll hurt" and deciding to touch the stove anyway. No one's holding the kid's hand to it.

[Latrans]

Shanna66

i have no idea. but its not a safe thing to do. i mean im glad we arent super strict like some rescues. but maybe doing a home check before sending the animal home, or saying no to certain people would be great imo

idk, im happy to see so many animals go home instead of euthed but its still so frustrating

I understand why being more strident is better, but I'd still go to the money = pet shelters first. In my experience, they're cheaper, too.

[Latrans]

Krissim Klaw

Latrans

Shanna66

Ww dont even ask that!

If their residence allows the animal and they have the money then thats it. Drives me insane

Isn't that the norm for county shelters?

I don't know, some shelters these days seem to think you are renting the animal at best and they should have the right to stop in and take back the animal at anytime if they deem you unworthy. I personally wouldn't adopt from such a place just like I wouldn't buy from a breeder like that.

Yeah no that's not me.

[Krissim Klaw]

JaziSnake

I'm no old man- I just know I won't change my mind on kids.

I never said you would, nor was I implying you need to do what I do.

JaziSnake

I just think that every situation is different and a blanket rule of "bite = rehome" is unwarranted or complicates things further in many cases. Remember this was back in the 90s. No widespread internet resources to network since most families had dialup or no internet at all. The local shelters and rescues would have put her down due to the first bite. Trainers were around to work with her- but in a situation where a dog is hurt and bites the source of the pain, what training is there to be had? How exactly do you think we could have gotten her to any safer home than with us, people who knew her and her then senior dog ways, with the very kid she bit vouching for her having known her for so long? She was already 8 at the time of her first bite. No one /now/ 20 years later wants a biting senior. They sure as hell didn't want a biting senior then either.

I don't believe in blanket statements either. I'm merely offered up what I would do and stated that I would agree with the mother in this case that decided a new dog willing to put teeth on her child over food wasn't a good fit. I was only commenting on the snippets you offered of your personal experiences because you were using it as a counter to my original post.

JaziSnake

Sorry, if I'm in the process of removing a child from my animal and the kid whips around and does it again and gets nailed, that kid obviously needed to learn the hard way. Some lessons can't be taught to some kids any other way. Every child is different and me needing a different method of "don't do that" than you is no exception. I'm not saying to purposely let a situation like that happen. I'm saying some kids don't get it the first 20 times until their parents are proven right and wow maybe that was something dumb to do. Same as a kid not listening to several "that's hot, don't touch the stove, it'll hurt" and deciding to touch the stove anyway. No one's holding the kid's hand to it.

So if a dog does something, is stopped/corrected, and immediately goes to do it again, the dog deserves to get nailed too right? I mean if you corrected the dog multiple times not to run out in the street, it obviously needs to get hit by a car to learn the lesson.

[Fading Fantasma]

"The 8 week old puppy the bought a few days ago wasn't house trained"

[Klienes]

I've never understood how someone could just throw away an animal like that.
Once we bring one into our home, they're there forever.

Animals aren't some toy to be consumed and when they stop spitting out fun you get rid of them like some cheap plastic toy.

[SHD]

Shanna66

SHD

Shanna66

Ww dont even ask that!

If their residence allows the animal and they have the money then thats it. Drives me insane

We have had issues with people using our dogs as fighters before when we have a really cheap sale

Oh my god that is awful! Why hasn't your manager done anything about that?!

I'm very glad that the shelter I work with does background checks and looks into the shelter's in the area's that the person has lived. Even though it's not always a guarantee, at least they are making sure the person didn't just drop another dog off at another shelter and then come in for a new one.

We used to have animal control check on the animals after a few weeks but when we got the new head boss lady a few years ago she stopped it because she lives in magical lala land where nobody ever does anything bad to animals

That's awful. You need a promotion and should be running the shelter the way it should be run. 3nodding

[JaziSnake]

Krissim Klaw

So if a dog does something, is stopped/corrected, and immediately goes to do it again, the dog deserves to get nailed too right? I mean if you corrected the dog multiple times not to run out in the street, it obviously needs to get hit by a car to learn the lesson.

Wow, is it fallacy week on gaia today? First I agree with child abuse and now I also agree with dog abise/neglect.

In certain interactions, yes, the dog would deserve getting nailed. Harassing a stinging insect, ignoring social dog/dog cues, yeah man. Dog refuses to leave a mantis alone and gets nailed on the nose by the mantis, yeah buddy you deserved that. Dog ignores another dog going "grumble rumble leave me alone" and gets charged/snapped at/bit, yup you deserved that too. Notice I also said that I would NOT be standing idly by letting it happen. I'd be trying to prevent it. But, like kids, sometimes dogs do thngs that are dangerous before you can step in to prevent.

Unlike dogs, however, kids can be spoken to and understand human logic. However, as said, I wouldn't let either kid nor dog bolt across a street to get hit.

[Shanna66]

SHD

Shanna66

SHD

Shanna66

Ww dont even ask that!

If their residence allows the animal and they have the money then thats it. Drives me insane

We have had issues with people using our dogs as fighters before when we have a really cheap sale

Oh my god that is awful! Why hasn't your manager done anything about that?!

I'm very glad that the shelter I work with does background checks and looks into the shelter's in the area's that the person has lived. Even though it's not always a guarantee, at least they are making sure the person didn't just drop another dog off at another shelter and then come in for a new one.

We used to have animal control check on the animals after a few weeks but when we got the new head boss lady a few years ago she stopped it because she lives in magical lala land where nobody ever does anything bad to animals

That's awful. You need a promotion and should be running the shelter the way it should be run. 3nodding

Lol well this is my last full week there

I will be doing a very small scale feral cat rescue. I would love to run a sgelter though

[Krissim Klaw]

JaziSnake

Wow, is it fallacy week on gaia today? First I agree with child abuse and now I also agree with dog abise/neglect.

In certain interactions, yes, the dog would deserve getting nailed. Harassing a stinging insect, ignoring social dog/dog cues, yeah man. Dog refuses to leave a mantis alone and gets nailed on the nose by the mantis, yeah buddy you deserved that. Dog ignores another dog going "grumble rumble leave me alone" and gets charged/snapped at/bit, yup you deserved that too. Notice I also said that I would NOT be standing idly by letting it happen. I'd be trying to prevent it. But, like kids, sometimes dogs do thngs that are dangerous before you can step in to prevent.

Unlike dogs, however, kids can be spoken to and understand human logic. However, as said, I wouldn't let either kid nor dog bolt across a street to get hit.

Sorry, I don't care if the toddler poked the dog in the eye, it does not deserve to have its face partially ripped off. I've been talking about high risk dogs this whole time. I've made that clear. It isn't the harmless air-snap I'm worried about, it is the dogs willing to go beyond that which is equally inappropriate response in my opinion. I would find it inappropriate for a dog to break flesh and rip into another dog just because it was a little nosy too. The reaction hardly fits 'the crime.' A mantis could nail a dog all it wants, it is never going to do that kind of damage, or likely any damage.

This doesn't mean I blame the dog. I don't blame the dog like I don't blame the child. I feel we are fundamentally going to disagree here because you seem to think children are born as mini adults. They aren't. You can reason with them all you like but their brains aren't instantly developed enough to get it.

I also disagree with some children needing to receive pain to learn. I don't want my child to not to pull the dog's tail because the dog nailed them and they stopped doing it because pulling a dog's tail equaled pain. I want the child not to pull the dogs tail because they have learned to empathize and look at it from the dog's perspective. I know a number of adults out there who were bitten as children. They learned all right, to fear all dogs. It is one of the lovely risks involved when you let fear and pain be the teacher.

Finally, I certainly don't want my dog to be the one in charge of teaching a child to begin with. This often ends badly for the dogs in question. They are often put down.