Mormonism is pure fantasy?

[I Am Falanor]

CuAnnan

The New Wineskin

If it is not, however, than it will have no effect whatsoever.

Except upon the sanctity of the burial rights of the interred, or upon the religious and cultural views of their surviving relatives.

You know, the point of these boards is to respectfully discuss these things. It feels to me like you don't share that view of these discussions.

All you are doing is raising your voice, so to speak, pointing fingers, cursing, and "spitting". I'm sorry that this belief and practice offends you, but that does not that that we believe that this is right, sacred, and respectful to do so. I'm also sorry that I incorrectly assumed you were a Christian. And yes, I may have misspoke when I summed up what I felt some Christians believed. (I don't believe some of those things are found in the bible, but many Christian churches I know of do, and so I was trying to respect those views by giving them the benefit of the doubt.)

As Wineskin said:

Quote:

Think of it this way: if the Mormon church is correct, than the baptism will have effect, and you'd be allowed to go to heaven. If it is not, however, than it will have no effect whatsoever. So, really, there is no reason to be angry about it.

But I realize you will never come around to have this point of view, or, as evidenced from your posts, really even respect that our views are different, even though I have extended that respect to your views.

When it comes down to it, you really have to look at the motivation behind the act. (I realize one doesn't want to do this in all circumstances, but sometimes you need to.) We are not doing it as an act of disrespect. We are doing it out of love and respect, and the hope that they will accept it.

As for your question, yes, I have participated in baptisms for the dead. It is a privilege to do so, especially for my own ancestors. But, as said before, just as we cannot and will not force someone to "accept" the gospel while living we can not, nor do we wish to, force those who have passed on to "accept" the gospel. In both cases it is up to the individual to decide.

Anyway, unless you start a new line of questions or come at it from a new, hopefully respectful position, I'm done with this line of questioning. Why? Because I have fully explained it, and further discussion will go no where.

[GunsmithKitten]

I Am Falanor

When it comes down to it, you really have to look at the motivation behind the act. (I realize one doesn't want to do this in all circumstances, but sometimes you need to.) We are not doing it as an act of disrespect. We are doing it out of love and respect, and the hope that they will accept it. .

Yet you do so without any respect whatsoever for the sanctity of the person's soul or the wishes of the estate. Your motivation means nothing, the act it'self is extremely disrespectful.

Yes, Cu and I come across as angry and spitting because we both take sanctity of the dead and their families quite seriously. Those are things you don't monkey with, even if you think you're doing something kind.

[Sun Saru]

Mormonism and Scientology should merge and become a really crazy religion. That would be entertaining.

[CuAnnan]

I Am Falanor

All you are doing is raising your voice, so to speak, pointing fingers, cursing, and "spitting".

You have lied about the practice, dismissing the rights of the interred as irrelevant by saying that your beliefs trump theirs.
What you do is repugnant.
And you, rather than address what is repugnant about them, you just couch it within tennets of your own faith. "Well our faith says it's ok to do this because X".
In many cases, these people were persecuted because of their faiths. You're dismissing those faiths as irrelevant because your faith is more important somehow.
You continue not addressing this point while expressing your religions views on it.

I Am Falanor

I'm sorry that this belief and practice offends you, but that does not that that we believe that this is right, sacred, and respectful to do so.

The other religions, those of those who's burial rites you ******** around with, do not.
They are the religious views that are important. Not yours.

I Am Falanor

you will never come around to have this point of view

I most certainly will not. Because it's a pascal's wager.
There are other options.
You are wrong and the Jews are right. And what you do is evil, in that instance. Moral evil in a demonstrable manner.
You are wrong and the Catholics are right. Likewise.
You are wrong and the Hindi are right.

I Am Falanor

really even respect that our views are different

I respect that our views are different but I do not respect your views. They strike me, in my admittedly armchair psychoanalytical capacity, as identical to a moral conflict ******. They genuinely believe they have the moral right to commit ******. And I make the comparison intentionally. Because you refuse to acknowledge that the religions of those who's burial rites you interfere with have a right to be left unmolested.

I Am Falanor

When it comes down to it, you really have to look at the motivation behind the act.

No. I don't. I have to look at the act. I have to look at what you are doing to the dead. And that is what evokes the reaction.

I Am Falanor

We are not doing it as an act of disrespect.

It doesn't matter that that's not why you are doing it. Doing it is an act of disrespect.
****** don't molest children in order to harm them. But it does so none-the-less. Do we really have to look at the motivations of a ******?

[Nityananda-rama dasa]

Hindi is a language TT-TT

[CuAnnan]

Nityananda-rama dasa

Hindi is a language TT-TT

Sorry about that.

[Nityananda-rama dasa]

CuAnnan

Nityananda-rama dasa

Hindi is a language TT-TT

Sorry about that.

Haha, no problem, it happens a lot. As one of the few Hindus 'round these parts I always feel the need to pop in when it comes up.

That and the "Shiva is a girl" thing...

[CuAnnan]

Nityananda-rama dasa

Haha, no problem, it happens a lot. As one of the few Hindus 'round these parts I always feel the need to pop in when it comes up.

I think it probably has to do with how you'd pluralise it if it were an Irish word. Which is not to excuse, merely to explain.

Nityananda-rama dasa

That and the "Shiva is a girl" thing...

I do not pretend to know the genders of the gods of those religions I am not a member of and would generally not comment on those things. Genders and godhood often become too ... complicated.

[Fireweed_honey]

The New Wineskin

GunsmithKitten

The post mortem baptism thing is what burns me up.

Exactly who the HELL does the Mormon church think they are to baptize someone post mortem without any consent? I'm fairly sure Jeanne D'Arc and her surviving estate was unable to...

Think of it this way: if the Mormon church is correct, than the baptism will have effect, and you'd be allowed to go to heaven. If it is not, however, than it will have no effect whatsoever. So, really, there is no reason to be angry about it.

The way I see it, if you're going to post mortem baptise anyone in my family, don't let me catch you. If I don't know about it, I really can't do anything, but if I know about it, I'm going to be pissed. While I doubt it'll drag dear dead Grandma from Catholic heaven to Mormon heaven, it's about respect. I don't go around giving post mortom Last Rites, please don't post mortem baptise my family.

[Nityananda-rama dasa]

CuAnnan

I think it probably has to do with how you'd pluralise it if it were an Irish word. Which is not to excuse, merely to explain.

I think that may be why many people say it that way, or, at the very least, they have heard both words and assume that Hindi is the plural of Hindu.

Mind you, neither are "our" terms but rather Persian terms that were used to label the indigenous religions of India when Muslim forces began to occupy India. I try to avoid using the word.

CuAnnan

I do not pretend to know the genders of the gods of those religions I am not a member of and would generally not comment on those things. Genders and godhood often become too ... complicated.

Vedic deities tend to be cut and dry. Shiva is always a man. The "Shiva is my favorite goddess" seems to have come from Final Fantasy and the fact that in most gendered languages that people are familiar with, such as Spanish, French and Italian, a terminal "a" is a feminine marker.

[CuAnnan]

Nityananda-rama dasa

Vedic deities tend to be cut and dry. Shiva is always a man. The "Shiva is my favorite goddess" seems to have come from Final Fantasy and the fact that in most gendered languages that people are familiar with, such as Spanish, French and Italian, a terminal "a" is a feminine marker.

See, I always thought Shiva was male partly because of the Oppenheimer quote partly because I vaguely remember reading about him.

OH, I know why they think Shiva's a female. There's an Ice Summon in the final fantasy series called Shiva, it's a scantily clad blue woman.

[Nityananda-rama dasa]

CuAnnan

See, I always thought Shiva was male partly because of the Oppenheimer quote partly because I vaguely remember reading about him.

It is easy to remember because Shiva is worshiped primarily as his p***s.

That quote is actually from Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita (11.32), he just got is wrong ><;

The word is Time (kala) not death (mrtya)

Quote:

We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, "Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." I suppose we all thought that one way or another.

-J. Robert Oppenheimer

[CuAnnan]

Nityananda-rama dasa

Quote:

We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, "Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." I suppose we all thought that one way or another.

-J. Robert Oppenheimer

I shall inform the person who wrote my Applied Mathematics book that he got the quote wrong (I know him, through a friend).

[Nityananda-rama dasa]

CuAnnan

I shall inform the person who wrote my Applied Mathematics book that he got the quote wrong (I know him, through a friend).

I am not sure why, but it is frequently misquoted. He is certainly not the first and will not be the last.

[Illuded]

CuAnnan

I Am Falanor

you will never come around to have this point of view

I most certainly will not. Because it's a pascal's wager.
There are other options.
You are wrong and the Jews are right. And what you do is evil, in that instance. Moral evil in a demonstrable manner.
You are wrong and the Catholics are right. Likewise.
You are wrong and the Hindi are right.
of a ******?

Or you are overly worrying about some Morman mystical ritual that probably doesn't have significance any more than burial rites do.