Are we already in Hell?

[truthful_lies]

frankly, i think so.

[daredevil 666]

While I believe in past lives, this isnt hell, people are merely making their lives hell by clinging to desire.

Silly geese. 3nodding

[Eteponge]

aufheben

You've got far more patience than I (or a good place to copy and paste from). Admittedly, I should have originally stated "some Gnostics believe," so I did make a mistake there. Most of my experience with Gnosticism comes from friends who would definitely not fall within the Valentian school, so it usually doesn't pop into my head when discussing the topic.

Sources:

http://www.gnosis.org/library/valentinus/ - Valentinian Christian Gnosticism and the Valentinian Tradition

http://www.gnosis.org/library/valentinus/Detailed_Articles.htm - Detailed Articles on Valentinianism Gnostic Christian Theology

[Sophia and Eve, The Pair (syzygy) in Valentinian Thought, The Role of Christ, The Doctrine of the Name, Valentinian Monism, Psychology and Salvation, Realized Eschatology, Faith (pistis) and Knowledge (gnosis) in Valentinian Thought, The Church as the Body of Christ, Joined to an Angel, Valentinian Teaching on Sin, Ethics, Sacramental Practices, Valentinians and the Jewish Temple, Valentinian Scriptural Interpretation, The Demiurge in Valentinianism, The Figure of "Error" in the Gospel of Truth, The Valentinian View of the Creation (draft), Bibliography]

The Book titled, "The Gnostic Paul: Gnostic Exegesis on the Pauline Letters", and misc sources, including my own observations and those of a Gnostic friend of mine.

[princess_jaybird]

Kae tea

Calm_As_Hindu_Cow

Could this life be a punishment to our souls for something we have done in a past life or in a different state of being? My idea for this comes from the pain and suffering we experience every hour of our lives which will never change.
Now i hear you say "Hang on Cow, theres still love and fun things in our lives to"... but think of this.
Everything we experience in life we become numb to over time. If we get a thrill from watching a violent movie, the next time we watch something similar it doesn't have the same effect on us. And this is the same with material goods, our wants, love and every other aspect of life. The more we experience the more our senses are numbed and the more pain we feel as we can't experience and have what we want.

Could this life be a punishment to our souls for something we have done in a past life or in a different state of being?

Welcome to life. I blame Eve.

Don't blame Eve, it was the devil in the form of the serpent that tempted her, besides we have a way out of eternal sleep(no hell) Jesus Christ dying on the cross, He is our salvation

[Slyte_Malfunction]

well, certain things in this world are punishment from the sin in the garden of eden, but no, we are not in hell, hell is more horrible than anyone can imagine, and it is nothing like we would imagine. i have heard a theory though that after armegeddon, the earth will be so badly damaged, that it will then be hell, but that would not be now.

[princess_jaybird]

Slyte_Malfunction

well, certain things in this world are punishment from the sin in the garden of eden, but no, we are not in hell, hell is more horrible than anyone can imagine, and it is nothing like we would imagine. i have heard a theory though that after armegeddon, the earth will be so badly damaged, that it will then be hell, but that would not be now.

There is no hell, there will be a lake of fire, no hell.

[Slyte_Malfunction]

princess_jaybird

Slyte_Malfunction

well, certain things in this world are punishment from the sin in the garden of eden, but no, we are not in hell, hell is more horrible than anyone can imagine, and it is nothing like we would imagine. i have heard a theory though that after armegeddon, the earth will be so badly damaged, that it will then be hell, but that would not be now.

There is no hell, there will be a lake of fire, no hell.

yes, there will be a hell, and it is only compared to a lake of fire or burning sulfur in the bible.

[princess_jaybird]

Slyte_Malfunction

princess_jaybird

Slyte_Malfunction

well, certain things in this world are punishment from the sin in the garden of eden, but no, we are not in hell, hell is more horrible than anyone can imagine, and it is nothing like we would imagine. i have heard a theory though that after armegeddon, the earth will be so badly damaged, that it will then be hell, but that would not be now.

There is no hell, there will be a lake of fire, no hell.

yes, there will be a hell, and it is only compared to a lake of fire or burning sulfur in the bible.

Prove it. Show me the verse and I will believe you.

[aufheben]

Eteponge

aufheben

You've got far more patience than I (or a good place to copy and paste from). Admittedly, I should have originally stated "some Gnostics believe," so I did make a mistake there. Most of my experience with Gnosticism comes from friends who would definitely not fall within the Valentian school, so it usually doesn't pop into my head when discussing the topic.

Sources:

http://www.gnosis.org/library/valentinus/ - Valentinian Christian Gnosticism and the Valentinian Tradition

http://www.gnosis.org/library/valentinus/Detailed_Articles.htm - Detailed Articles on Valentinianism Gnostic Christian Theology

[Sophia and Eve, The Pair (syzygy) in Valentinian Thought, The Role of Christ, The Doctrine of the Name, Valentinian Monism, Psychology and Salvation, Realized Eschatology, Faith (pistis) and Knowledge (gnosis) in Valentinian Thought, The Church as the Body of Christ, Joined to an Angel, Valentinian Teaching on Sin, Ethics, Sacramental Practices, Valentinians and the Jewish Temple, Valentinian Scriptural Interpretation, The Demiurge in Valentinianism, The Figure of "Error" in the Gospel of Truth, The Valentinian View of the Creation (draft), Bibliography]

The Book titled, "The Gnostic Paul: Gnostic Exegesis on the Pauline Letters", and misc sources, including my own observations and those of a Gnostic friend of mine.

Brilliant. I'll have some reading to do this summer, then. Thanks!

[aufheben]

princess_jaybird

Kae tea

Calm_As_Hindu_Cow

Could this life be a punishment to our souls for something we have done in a past life or in a different state of being? My idea for this comes from the pain and suffering we experience every hour of our lives which will never change.
Now i hear you say "Hang on Cow, theres still love and fun things in our lives to"... but think of this.
Everything we experience in life we become numb to over time. If we get a thrill from watching a violent movie, the next time we watch something similar it doesn't have the same effect on us. And this is the same with material goods, our wants, love and every other aspect of life. The more we experience the more our senses are numbed and the more pain we feel as we can't experience and have what we want.

Could this life be a punishment to our souls for something we have done in a past life or in a different state of being?

Welcome to life. I blame Eve.

Don't blame Eve, it was the devil in the form of the serpent that tempted her, besides we have a way out of eternal sleep(no hell) Jesus Christ dying on the cross, He is our salvation

Except the only person doing the punishing is God. If it weren't for him, we wouldn't have punishment.

[Incendia7]

No.. this is not hell. It ain't heaven, because only where Jesus and our Father is at, is heaven. I believe this to be a world age of testing. God wants to know who loves Him and who don't. Thats the whole purpose of this earth age.

[aufheben]

Incendia7

No.. this is not hell. It ain't heaven, because only where Jesus and our Father is at, is heaven. I believe this to be a world age of testing. God wants to know who loves Him and who don't. Thats the whole purpose of this earth age.

God is limited in where He is? And he needs evidence in order to know whether we love Him?

[Slyte_Malfunction]

princess_jaybird

Slyte_Malfunction

princess_jaybird

Slyte_Malfunction

well, certain things in this world are punishment from the sin in the garden of eden, but no, we are not in hell, hell is more horrible than anyone can imagine, and it is nothing like we would imagine. i have heard a theory though that after armegeddon, the earth will be so badly damaged, that it will then be hell, but that would not be now.

There is no hell, there will be a lake of fire, no hell.

yes, there will be a hell, and it is only compared to a lake of fire or burning sulfur in the bible.

Prove it. Show me the verse and I will believe you.

honestly, i don't remember because i'm in a study and i read it a long time ago, plus, have you read the whole bible and completely understood all of it?

[vune]

Calm_As_Hindu_Cow

Could this life be a punishment to our souls for something we have done in a past life or in a different state of being? My idea for this comes from the pain and suffering we experience every hour of our lives which will never change.
Now i hear you say "Hang on Cow, theres still love and fun things in our lives to"... but think of this.
Everything we experience in life we become numb to over time. If we get a thrill from watching a violent movie, the next time we watch something similar it doesn't have the same effect on us. And this is the same with material goods, our wants, love and every other aspect of life. The more we experience the more our senses are numbed and the more pain we feel as we can't experience and have what we want.

Could this life be a punishment to our souls for something we have done in a past life or in a different state of being?

I figure if we can't figure out how to be happy in this life, chances are we're not going to figure out how to be happy in the next. Life's what you make of it. My life used to be hell, so I changed it. It's hard, but it's worth it.

[Fiddlers Green]

I for one, happen to enjoy this life. By the definition that hell is complete seperation from the Maker, I can't really buy it. I can't qualify or quantify it, but at times I have fealt what I can only describe as divine inspiration (ok, I could also call it lunacy...). Furthermore, if this is punishment, then I must not have done anything terribly heinous, all things considered...