Sexual Sadism and Rape. (Long)

[Robot Giny]

Capable Adventurer

Robot Giny

Capable Adventurer

Robot Giny

Okay, stop.

Stop referring to this as a weakness. It's not a weakness. It is just a point on the spectrum of human sexuality. You don't have to be into something to at least acknowledge it's validity in the world. And you may "not care" if someone is into BDSM, but you definitely care enough to judge it. Again, it's not a weakness, or a crutch. It's not a mental illness, or a disorder that needs to be "managed." It's just sexuality. That's all.

And my only reservation with counseling would be the chance he could run into a therapist that would pathologize his sexuality rather than validate it. My advice would be to turn to the community first, and then seek out a sex-positive therapist to deal with any lingering issues he may have.

Again, not a weakness, okay?

Oh. My. ********. God. Why are you guys so ******** sensitive? I don't give a s**t about your community. It's just a discussion and I was trying to help. I don't know how to ******** please you people. I never said it was an illness or a crutch or a disorder. To me, when I say weakness, it's like when someone gets all weak in the knees because they really like something. How the ******** is that rude?

So...let me get this straight. When you say weakness, you don't mean "weak" in the conventional sense. You mean...really cool?

Okay, assuming you're not just desparately backpedaling, I hope you can understand that none of us could know that you have invented a new definiton for the word "weakness."

I am not the most articulate person and I will admit that I initially thought I knew the proper definition for the word "vice" but did not really. Like, I was thinking like when I would say "i have a weakness for chocolate cake". Bad comparison, but that's what I was thinking.

And no, I'm not backpedaling. I don't like BDSM. I'll admit I think it's weird, but I never said I thought the guy was evil for his fetish. It's just disconcerting when someone says they want to rape people, you know? My mind did not initially go to BDSM as a good source of taking care of any emotional issues he has, because BDSM never once crossed my mind at all. How is BDSM the answer for a guy who has a rape fetish when that scene has to do with consent? (Don't answer that.) I'll admit it, I'm an abuse victim and it disturbs me when someone wants to hurt another person. I'm very wary of people to begin with, so don't be all "omg you're so judgmental and you need to get over it". The only thing I can think of to help people is counseling because it's helped me.

Look, I'm sorry you've been a victim of abuse, I really am. And I understand how discussions of rape (even within the context of a kink or a fetish) could be very triggering.

But I also hope you understand how your comments have hurt others. Every single person who's read these posts, and seen you classify BDSM and kink as a "weakness" and a "vice," have also been triggered. Because of the messages they've received about how unnatural, scary, perverse, or destructive their sexuality is. Maybe they've heard it's a sin, or a weakness they have to overcome. Either way, you going on without any regard to how your uneducated and judgmental words can (and likely have) hurt and triggered others is thoughtless and irresponsible.

Like I said in an earlier post, you don't have to understand or be into something to merely accept it's validity. It's important to recognize how diverse the human sexuality spectrum is if we are ever going to stop pathologizing people for sexual orientations or sexual desires.

[Capable Adventurer]

Robot Giny

Look, I'm sorry you've been a victim of abuse, I really am. And I understand how discussions of rape (even within the context of a kink or a fetish) could be very triggering.

You don't need to apologize.

Robot Giny

But I also hope you understand how your comments have hurt others. Every single person who's read these posts, and seen you classify BDSM and kink as a "weakness" and a "vice," have also been triggered. Because of the messages they've received about how unnatural, scary, perverse, or destructive their sexuality is. Maybe they've heard it's a sin, or a weakness they have to overcome. Either way, you going on without any regard to how your uneducated and judgmental words can (and likely have) hurt and triggered others is thoughtless and irresponsible.

I didn't know I had to be educated on it as I didn't know it existed as a whole community. Of course I came across as judgmental and unedcated. I have no clue what anyone is talking about when they say you can rape a willing person. I'm sorry they feel that way if I hurt anyone. That was not my intention. I've had negative stigmas used against me for many reasons so I know it can be pretty shitty.

Robot Giny

Like I said in an earlier post, you don't have to understand or be into something to merely accept it's validity. It's important to recognize how diverse the human sexuality spectrum is if we are ever going to stop pathologizing people for sexual orientations or sexual desires.

Someone having a fetish doesn't bug me and I don't invalidate people for their sexual orientations or desires. I just don't like people thinking that rape is something that happens with a consenting BDSM partner. That's not rape.

[klebold2]

If you know the whereabouts of any rapist or sexual abuser of any kind, there's a hotline you can call that will investigate and handle things anonymously. Actually it's just my cell phone number

[Plaisir]

I'm a woman and a sadomasochist; I've had "rape"-type fantasies
Real rape is ******** disturbing, but the play version is exhilarating
It's all about control and dominance, which I enjoy on both ends
And I've never used a strap on or d***o but I've dominated other women and men before

I wish I could give some advice for your friend but I'm really not like him because my partners consent was always essential for me and not a turn off at all

[Blackrose_Knight]

Capable Adventurer

Of course I came across as judgmental and unedcated. I have no clue what anyone is talking about when they say you can rape a willing person. I'm sorry they feel that way if I hurt anyone. That was not my intention. I've had negative stigmas used against me for many reasons so I know it can be pretty shitty.

You cannot rape a willing person. You can simulate a rape with a consenting partner (which in the kink community it is called "consensual non-consent", or apparently "ravishing" - hell you learn something new everyday) Simulations can be from rough sex, to an arranged "kidnapping" it is all up to the people consensually negotiating the play.

Real rape is horrifying. What I want is not real rape, but a scene that can appear to be in all facets a rape (forced, rough sex, disregard of my needs, objectification) but internally its a negotiated play act with a safeword out - still a consensual act of very rough sex. The OP's friend sounds like one of my play partners - a man who gets off on making me squirm. It is all consensual, everything we do - there is a safeword - I can (and do) stop the play if things become something I do not want.

[Blackrose_Knight]

There are as many types of rape fantasies as there are people who have them. The limits are confined only by the vast reaches of the mind. They range from unwilling seduction to violent, forceful sex. One can imagine that one is the rapist, or the one being raped. It is estimated that 24% of men and 36% of women have had a rape fantasy, and 10% of women report this is their favourite type of fantasy. [1] It should not, however, be assumed that a rape fantasy is a wish to engage in the act in reality.

Psychologically, many women (and even some men) turn to rape fantasy because sex is surrounded so much by taboo and religious restrictions. Rape fantasy can be a psychological device by which a person may safely experience intense sexuality and emotions without guilt, since it is not their choice, or "their fault". It can also represent an outlet for sexually submissive men and women, and also sexual dominants can imagine themselves as having sexual control or power without actually committing an illegal or immoral act. Finally, as with many sexual fantasies, rape may be appealing because it is a taboo.

Many people assume that people aroused by rape fantasies must be more likely than others to commit the actual act, or that victims with rape fantasies actually want to become victims of sexual assault. This does not correspond with observed scientific evidence, however; while rapists usually fantasize about rape, so do normal psychologically healthy people.

In fact, an inability to use sexual fantasies for gratification is often regarded by law enforcement and other professionals as a more alarming warning sign than the presence of sexual fantasies of rape or sadism. Millions of normal people fantasize about rape, or being raped without wanting it to happen in reality.

For some who have actually been sexually abused, rape fantasy may be a way to heal past wounds by exploring in a safe environment with a sense of control.
Wipipedia a BDSM wiki

[Only Gray]

Get your friend to fix his own problems.

[Capable Adventurer]

Blackrose_Knight

Capable Adventurer

Of course I came across as judgmental and unedcated. I have no clue what anyone is talking about when they say you can rape a willing person. I'm sorry they feel that way if I hurt anyone. That was not my intention. I've had negative stigmas used against me for many reasons so I know it can be pretty shitty.

You cannot rape a willing person. You can simulate a rape with a consenting partner (which in the kink community it is called "consensual non-consent", or apparently "ravishing" - hell you learn something new everyday) Simulations can be from rough sex, to an arranged "kidnapping" it is all up to the people consensually negotiating the play.

Real rape is horrifying. What I want is not real rape, but a scene that can appear to be in all facets a rape (forced, rough sex, disregard of my needs, objectification) but internally its a negotiated play act with a safeword out - still a consensual act of very rough sex. The OP's friend sounds like one of my play partners - a man who gets off on making me squirm. It is all consensual, everything we do - there is a safeword - I can (and do) stop the play if things become something I do not want.

See, when I read what the OP was saying about his friend, it didn't sound like play at all. Not like what you guys are talking about. So I was like, "how the ******** can that be solved with BDSM?". What if he doesn't want simulation? What if he wants real rape?

All around, I feel bad for him because it sounds like he's really unhappy and unable to have any sort of closeness with a woman. I hope something helps him.

The topic of someone wanting to perform a violent act upsets me. As I said to the other user here, I am a victim of abuse. It is beyond me why someone would want to hurt another person or be hurt in return.

[Blackrose_Knight]

Capable Adventurer

See, when I read what the OP was saying about his friend, it didn't sound like play at all. Not like what you guys are talking about. So I was like, "how the ******** can that be solved with BDSM?". What if he doesn't want simulation? What if he wants real rape?

My gut says he isn't, but if he want to rape people, instead of play act then he needs help. Therapy for legitimate rapist, frankly doesn't work. His best bet would be chemical castration. But again, since he has expressed to his friend I doubt he legitimately wants to actually rape someone but gets off on power and needs a partner who gets off on having power taken away.

Capable Adventurer

All around, I feel bad for him because it sounds like he's really unhappy and unable to have any sort of closeness with a woman. I hope something helps him.

I do too. He seems trapped in this little box of self hate.

Capable Adventurer

The topic of someone wanting to perform a violent act upsets me. As I said to the other user here, I am a victim of abuse. It is beyond me why someone would want to hurt another person or be hurt in return.

Several of my kinky friends are survivors of abuse - generally at the hands of their parents or former lovers. (remember abuse rates in kinky communities and the general public are just about even). I don't understand what it is like to be abused, I was blessed never to experience that horror, but what I do know that your reaction is not kind to us kinky folk. That hurts.

Step away from your own fear for a moment and think about this. Pain turns me on. It makes me feel good. I like to be hurt because it feels good. I like to be called named because it makes me feel good. So do a lot of other people. But that does not mean I like abuse or that I am abused. Below is part of a little fold out pamphlet on the different between abuse and consensual BDSM. Maybe it can help sort things out a little.

BDSM activities are ALWAYS Safe, Sane, and Consensual. Abuse is NEVER safe, NEVER sane, and NEVER consensual.

BDSM follows established rules. Abuse has no rules.

BDSM is negotiated for the safety of both partners. Abuse is NEVER negotiated.

BDSM activities are used for mutual pleasure. Abuse is used to terrorize, frighten and control.

In BDSM, safewords can be used to stop any activity. If someone is being abused they cannot stop what is happening to them.

BDSM activities are about pleasure and being connected. Abuse is about power and control.

KNOW THE DIFFERENCE ---END DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

National Leather Association:International

NLA-I Domestic Violence Project Website: http://www.nlaidvproject.us/

[Capable Adventurer]

Blackrose_Knight

Capable Adventurer

See, when I read what the OP was saying about his friend, it didn't sound like play at all. Not like what you guys are talking about. So I was like, "how the ******** can that be solved with BDSM?". What if he doesn't want simulation? What if he wants real rape?

My gut says he isn't, but if he want to rape people, instead of play act then he needs help. Therapy for legitimate rapist, frankly doesn't work. His best bet would be chemical castration. But again, since he has expressed to his friend I doubt he legitimately wants to actually rape someone but gets off on power and needs a partner who gets off on having power taken away.

Capable Adventurer

All around, I feel bad for him because it sounds like he's really unhappy and unable to have any sort of closeness with a woman. I hope something helps him.

I do too. He seems trapped in this little box of self hate.

Capable Adventurer

The topic of someone wanting to perform a violent act upsets me. As I said to the other user here, I am a victim of abuse. It is beyond me why someone would want to hurt another person or be hurt in return.

Several of my kinky friends are survivors of abuse - generally at the hands of their parents or former lovers. (remember abuse rates in kinky communities and the general public are just about even). I don't understand what it is like to be abused, I was blessed never to experience that horror, but what I do know that your reaction is not kind to us kinky folk. That hurts.

Step away from your own fear for a moment and think about this. Pain turns me on. It makes me feel good. I like to be hurt because it feels good. I like to be called named because it makes me feel good. So do a lot of other people. But that does not mean I like abuse or that I am abused. Below is part of a little fold out pamphlet on the different between abuse and consensual BDSM. Maybe it can help sort things out a little.

BDSM activities are ALWAYS Safe, Sane, and Consensual. Abuse is NEVER safe, NEVER sane, and NEVER consensual.

BDSM follows established rules. Abuse has no rules.

BDSM is negotiated for the safety of both partners. Abuse is NEVER negotiated.

BDSM activities are used for mutual pleasure. Abuse is used to terrorize, frighten and control.

In BDSM, safewords can be used to stop any activity. If someone is being abused they cannot stop what is happening to them.

BDSM activities are about pleasure and being connected. Abuse is about power and control.

KNOW THE DIFFERENCE ---END DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

National Leather Association:International

NLA-I Domestic Violence Project Website: http://www.nlaidvproject.us/

Um, thanks. I'm sorry about my reaction. I don't think it can quite be helped at this point in my life. I have many aversions and fears but I don't at all look at you guys as less than human beings. I didn't realize the BDSM community was so sensitive about it. I guess it's like how people look at me weird if they see the scars on my arm. They immediately size me up as some kind of trash or attention whore. I would hate for someone to think I look at them that way. And I would hate for someone to go on believing they were evil if all they really had was a fetish and not a compulsion to be a serial rapist or something crazy.

[Blackrose_Knight]

Capable Adventurer

Um, thanks. I'm sorry about my reaction. I don't think it can quite be helped at this point in my life. I have many aversions and fears but I don't at all look at you guys as less than human beings. I didn't realize the BDSM community was so sensitive about it. I guess it's like how people look at me weird if they see the scars on my arm. They immediately size me up as some kind of trash or attention whore. I would hate for someone to think I look at them that way. And I would hate for someone to go on believing they were evil if all they really had was a fetish and not a compulsion to be a serial rapist or something crazy.

s**t happens. I apologize for being a flaming c**t myself.

[Capable Adventurer]

Blackrose_Knight

Capable Adventurer

Um, thanks. I'm sorry about my reaction. I don't think it can quite be helped at this point in my life. I have many aversions and fears but I don't at all look at you guys as less than human beings. I didn't realize the BDSM community was so sensitive about it. I guess it's like how people look at me weird if they see the scars on my arm. They immediately size me up as some kind of trash or attention whore. I would hate for someone to think I look at them that way. And I would hate for someone to go on believing they were evil if all they really had was a fetish and not a compulsion to be a serial rapist or something crazy.

s**t happens. I apologize for being a flaming c**t myself.

It's alright. I have raging PMS right now and am going between angry and weepy lol. You're fine. I think you mean well in the end. You were upset by what I said and you had a right to be even though I didn't mean to or realize it would do that to you.

[Silence_Walker]

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

So I don't know if other people have this sort of issue...but whatever.

I know that feel. ********' sucks when people are always like "Please fix my problems for me, kthnx".

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

Anyways I rarely seek out other people's problems... and always has this aura of loneliness about him.

Still know that feel. Got a bro just like that.

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

I confronted him about it ... his fulfillment and happiness relies on stripping another person of their will and using them as a hunk of meat.

Okay, don't know that feel anymore. Wow, what a ********.

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

It isn't as though he has uncontrollable urges or anything like that. He isn't a sociopath.

Please look up how a sociopath's brain actually works before you lump us in with people who are into grody-a** s**t.

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

It's just his fetish...and I haven't dated since. "

Could be he's just a sadistic a*****e who only pretends to give a ******** because of how he'll be perceived by other people if they find out.

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

Now I really want to help this guy ...and he not only knows that is terrible but his conscience won't let him even near someone to even try to be happy.

Why do you want to help him?
Why do you want him to be happy when you know what that would entail?
For him to be happy, he'd have to be making someone else unhappy.
Not a worthy trade.

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

All this said, he is a human being and I think he deserves to be happy/have a form of release.

What definition of human are you using? Earlier it looks like you denigrated sociopaths as less than human, but someone who wants to rape someone else somehow passes muster?

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

The problem is I'm not sure how to cater to this issue or suggest a solution. The easiest thing would be finding a masochistic woman who wouldn't mind being raped, but then that kind of defeats the purpose. I'm not really sure how to address this.

You could just tell him to ******** off, as it's not your problem. Probably the healthiest route.

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

On the one hand, there are far more extreme sexual devianaces out there that people manage to satisfy every day.

What the ******** is more extreme than rape.
The actual ********.

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

For myself this is sort of a weird issue too because I've had rape fantasies before. In fact I know a few girls who have. I also know girls who have been raped/had attempts made. Because of this I always have mixed feelings on the subject.

Well, now it makes sense. You empathize with the man.
I will never, and would never wish to know that feel.
For a sociopath, that's never an issue.
Not so bad to be one, I might add.
At least I'm not into rape.

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

- Men commit most rapes. Men seem to fetishize and desire rape more often than women. I actually know a few men who would admit in private that they have fantasized about rape or raping someone, though admittedly this is the first case I have seen of it being a primary fetish. Why do you think this is?

Probably because it's not as easy physically for a woman to rape a man.
Also, because most people lack actual principles.
Sociopaths don't have to be amoral, violent, criminals.
That's just the bullshit Hollywood portrayal.
When a Sociopath has principles, he ******** sticks to them.
Because they're his beliefs, not some bullshit regulation he's obligated to follow for some abstract "common good".

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

Do you think women fantasize about raping people at all? Quite often whenever I hear about females raping someone it almost seems to always be with a strap on d***o. This always strikes me as odd because it is almost like in order to rape you -must- be male and so for females to do it they must find an analogue p***s to use. While I understand it is possible for women to rape people, how often do you think it happens without the use of a secondary tool? Do you think women rape men or women more often? Also a lot of the time when I talk about this with male and female friends alike they always see it as a plus for the male victim as long as she doesn't use a device on him. Similarly none of them see a girl raping another girl as being as bad as a man raping a girl so long as she doesn't use a strap on. Why do you think perception of female rape is almost never seen as being malevolent unless there is a p***s analogue?

Because most people give entirely too many ******** about other people.
And/or are sick bastards.
Seriously, ******** people. (No, not like that)

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

- Why do people fetishize rape at all?

Probably because they're sick ********.

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

- Why do some girls fantasize about rape? I admit I don't actually know what I find appealing about it myself, because my fantasies about it are few and far between. They are more like when you get a taste for something you rarely eat and can't figure out what it is. Because of this I know that I find the idea of being raped appealing from time to time, but I never really know why. Similarly almost all of my female friends who also admit to having the fantasy have a similar issue of not being able to pinpoint what makes it desirable.

I dunno, everyone's a ******** weirdo.
If you ask a sociopath about how he thinks other people feel
you're most likely gonna be disappointed.

Blue Fly Sky Fly Fly

- related discussion.

No, I'm bored now

[SKY4U2NV]

Hmmm...Hmm... This has intrigued me