Hamas offers Israel 10 conditions for a 10 year truce

[Silvia Crow]

KimberlyAriel07

Nyadriel

KimberlyAriel07

Nyadriel

KimberlyAriel07

Where did I say I believed it would last? I said maybe the bloodshed would decrease.

It won't! I am old enough to know.

Ok?? eek

You don't live as long as I have and with eyes and ears open to the news on a daily basis most of those years... and not be able to predict these kind of things. The violence over there... happens at the drop of a hat. Always some excuse. Been going on a long time. Even longer is the argument of who "owns" Jerusalem. Ridiculous since Jerusalem belongs to the whole world in my view. Palestine wants to be their own state and Israel doesn't want it (why they infringed in on the borders and built homes and such there). There is always some violence on the streets between people of the opposite sides. The recent "cease fire" did not even last as long as it was supposed to. Thing is too, is that this war going on between them is really pretty one-sided in that one side has defenses to shoot down incoming missiles while the other side does not.

Lot more details of things going on most of which I don't remember off-hand. But, you get the idea. This... will not end soon. And will only escalate.

That's very dismal sad

What's worse is the only way that the fighting will end is when one side wipes out the other.

And I'm just sitting here going:

[God Emperor Baldur]

kiironobara

God Emperor Baldur

kiironobara

washu_2004

kiironobara

Yeah, that doesn't violate international law or anything like that...

It is not like the Palestinians didn't kidnap and brutally murder some random teenagers, oh wait...

Not "the Palestinians." Hamas. Please remember to differentiate.

Also, I referenced that in my previous post as a reason these terms will never be agreed to. Hamas wants the suspects released.

But please tell me how one atrocity justifies another.

Hamas was voted in by the Palestinians.

Were there any other options, or had Hamas taken over the election?

There was the option to vote for a different party, god forbid.

[N3bu]

God Emperor Baldur

kiironobara

God Emperor Baldur

kiironobara

washu_2004

kiironobara

Yeah, that doesn't violate international law or anything like that...

It is not like the Palestinians didn't kidnap and brutally murder some random teenagers, oh wait...

Not "the Palestinians." Hamas. Please remember to differentiate.

Also, I referenced that in my previous post as a reason these terms will never be agreed to. Hamas wants the suspects released.

But please tell me how one atrocity justifies another.

Hamas was voted in by the Palestinians.

Were there any other options, or had Hamas taken over the election?

There was the option to vote for a different party, god forbid.

And half of them did.

Hamas' majority consisted of roughly 3-5%, and only gained 1 extra seat via proportional representation. Most people saw that resurgence coming too, many people had been disillusioned with Fatah's inability to push the Palestinian agenda politically to Israel and Hamas as a heavily ideological institution appeared to the population as more willing to stand on issues. The actual victory was unexpected and fairly narrow except in FPTP seats.

Of course instead of working together and trying to make a legitimate government, Hamas basically considered it justification to seize full control of Gaza from Fatah by force. They essentially committed a coup.

Considering Israel's treatment of the Gaza strip since then it's likely Hamas' support has dropped. Most of the older ordinary people in Gaza would of preferred not to be bombed. On the other hand Israel's attacks could have only galvanized younger idealistic Palestinians who believe in some silly righteous fight.

More than likely what we have seen and will see is less support for Hamas across Palestine but perhaps more support and more control in Gaza. Not that it matter since I doubt they would allow new unbiased elections anyway.

By comparison, since 2007, the West Bank has been of significantly less trouble to Israel (as I understand it) than Gaza, due to far less Hamas control in area. Whilst Palestinians are still frustrated at Israel control, checkpoints and settlements, there is far less support of Hamas.

So it's really not all that simple. Hamas has some support, mostly in Gaza, which is where a lot of the trouble is and the Palestinians are hardly politically monolithic, considering they are currently engaged in a civil war.

[Lady Vizsla]

Silvia Crow

KimberlyAriel07

Nyadriel

KimberlyAriel07

Nyadriel

KimberlyAriel07

Where did I say I believed it would last? I said maybe the bloodshed would decrease.

It won't! I am old enough to know.

Ok?? eek

You don't live as long as I have and with eyes and ears open to the news on a daily basis most of those years... and not be able to predict these kind of things. The violence over there... happens at the drop of a hat. Always some excuse. Been going on a long time. Even longer is the argument of who "owns" Jerusalem. Ridiculous since Jerusalem belongs to the whole world in my view. Palestine wants to be their own state and Israel doesn't want it (why they infringed in on the borders and built homes and such there). There is always some violence on the streets between people of the opposite sides. The recent "cease fire" did not even last as long as it was supposed to. Thing is too, is that this war going on between them is really pretty one-sided in that one side has defenses to shoot down incoming missiles while the other side does not.

Lot more details of things going on most of which I don't remember off-hand. But, you get the idea. This... will not end soon. And will only escalate.

That's very dismal sad

What's worse is the only way that the fighting will end is when one side wipes out the other.

And I'm just sitting here going:

I don't want one side wiping out the other. There are innocent civilians that don't deserve that. At least act like you value human life.

[Silvia Crow]

KimberlyAriel07

Silvia Crow

KimberlyAriel07

Nyadriel

KimberlyAriel07

Ok?? eek

You don't live as long as I have and with eyes and ears open to the news on a daily basis most of those years... and not be able to predict these kind of things. The violence over there... happens at the drop of a hat. Always some excuse. Been going on a long time. Even longer is the argument of who "owns" Jerusalem. Ridiculous since Jerusalem belongs to the whole world in my view. Palestine wants to be their own state and Israel doesn't want it (why they infringed in on the borders and built homes and such there). There is always some violence on the streets between people of the opposite sides. The recent "cease fire" did not even last as long as it was supposed to. Thing is too, is that this war going on between them is really pretty one-sided in that one side has defenses to shoot down incoming missiles while the other side does not.

Lot more details of things going on most of which I don't remember off-hand. But, you get the idea. This... will not end soon. And will only escalate.

That's very dismal sad

What's worse is the only way that the fighting will end is when one side wipes out the other.

And I'm just sitting here going:

I don't want one side wiping out the other. There are innocent civilians that don't deserve that. At least act like you value human life.

I will say that the civilians should be given the opportunity to flee unmolested before rolling in and ******** s**t up, but those that stay should be seen as targets. I'd say...a month and a half would be decent enough to grab your s**t and hoof it out. Roll in, smash the opposition, conquer the land, then allow the refugees back in to resettle the area, helping said refugees rebuild. Make it very clear that attacks of similar nature of the Hamas attacks will result in more rolling in and smashing.

And possibly offer a thing like "Ok, this land belongs properly to Israel, you refugees are not proper citizens, but we will allow you to stay. Your children however will be considered citizens and be afforded all the rights of an Israeli citizen" or something.

But yeah, that likely isn't going to happen and excessive violence is the most expedient way to quell these attacks.

[God Emperor Baldur]

N3bu

God Emperor Baldur

kiironobara

God Emperor Baldur

kiironobara

Not "the Palestinians." Hamas. Please remember to differentiate.

Also, I referenced that in my previous post as a reason these terms will never be agreed to. Hamas wants the suspects released.

But please tell me how one atrocity justifies another.

Hamas was voted in by the Palestinians.

Were there any other options, or had Hamas taken over the election?

There was the option to vote for a different party, god forbid.

And half of them did.

Hamas' majority consisted of roughly 3-5%, and only gained 1 extra seat via proportional representation. Most people saw that resurgence coming too, many people had been disillusioned with Fatah's inability to push the Palestinian agenda politically to Israel and Hamas as a heavily ideological institution appeared to the population as more willing to stand on issues. The actual victory was unexpected and fairly narrow except in FPTP seats.

Of course instead of working together and trying to make a legitimate government, Hamas basically considered it justification to seize full control of Gaza from Fatah by force. They essentially committed a coup.

Considering Israel's treatment of the Gaza strip since then it's likely Hamas' support has dropped. Most of the older ordinary people in Gaza would of preferred not to be bombed. On the other hand Israel's attacks could have only galvanized younger idealistic Palestinians who believe in some silly righteous fight.

More than likely what we have seen and will see is less support for Hamas across Palestine but perhaps more support and more control in Gaza. Not that it matter since I doubt they would allow new unbiased elections anyway.

By comparison, since 2007, the West Bank has been of significantly less trouble to Israel (as I understand it) than Gaza, due to far less Hamas control in area. Whilst Palestinians are still frustrated at Israel control, checkpoints and settlements, there is far less support of Hamas.

So it's really not all that simple. Hamas has some support, mostly in Gaza, which is where a lot of the trouble is and the Palestinians are hardly politically monolithic, considering they are currently engaged in a civil war.

Call it a complex issue, but the bottom line is that they have a majority. Honestly at this point, I doubt nothing short of a full on invasion will end the problem, if even that.

[kiironobara]

God Emperor Baldur

Call it a complex issue, but the bottom line is that they have a majority. Honestly at this point, I doubt nothing short of a full on invasion will end the problem, if even that.

So anyone in American politics who won by a majority is representative of the entire population? George W. Bush, Barack Obama, etc, speak entirely for you, whether you voted for them or not?

When it's between two assholes and neither of them are good, what is a population to do?

[God Emperor Baldur]

kiironobara

God Emperor Baldur

Call it a complex issue, but the bottom line is that they have a majority. Honestly at this point, I doubt nothing short of a full on invasion will end the problem, if even that.

So anyone in American politics who won by a majority is representative of the entire population? George W. Bush, Barack Obama, etc, speak entirely for you, whether you voted for them or not?

When it's between two assholes and neither of them are good, what is a population to do?

When we talk about democracy, then the population only has themselves to blame. With Bush, it is 100% the fault of the American people because they thought that a dumbass with Gentlemen C's was capable of running a country.

[kiironobara]

God Emperor Baldur

kiironobara

God Emperor Baldur

Call it a complex issue, but the bottom line is that they have a majority. Honestly at this point, I doubt nothing short of a full on invasion will end the problem, if even that.

So anyone in American politics who won by a majority is representative of the entire population? George W. Bush, Barack Obama, etc, speak entirely for you, whether you voted for them or not?

When it's between two assholes and neither of them are good, what is a population to do?

When we talk about democracy, then the population only has themselves to blame. With Bush, it is 100% the fault of the American people because they thought that a dumbass with Gentlemen C's was capable of running a country.

So it's the fault of even people who didn't vote for him? Despite the fact that he did not actually win a majority vote?

Oversimplifying complex situations is something people use to avoid critical thinking. Hamas may have been "elected," but they certainly don't give a rat's a** about what is best for most Palestinians.

[SparkyKid3000]

God Emperor Baldur

kiironobara

God Emperor Baldur

Call it a complex issue, but the bottom line is that they have a majority. Honestly at this point, I doubt nothing short of a full on invasion will end the problem, if even that.

So anyone in American politics who won by a majority is representative of the entire population? George W. Bush, Barack Obama, etc, speak entirely for you, whether you voted for them or not?

When it's between two assholes and neither of them are good, what is a population to do?

When we talk about democracy, then the population only has themselves to blame. With Bush, it is 100% the fault of the American people because they thought that a dumbass with Gentlemen C's was capable of running a country.

Including you?

[God Emperor Baldur]

SparkyKid3000

God Emperor Baldur

kiironobara

God Emperor Baldur

Call it a complex issue, but the bottom line is that they have a majority. Honestly at this point, I doubt nothing short of a full on invasion will end the problem, if even that.

So anyone in American politics who won by a majority is representative of the entire population? George W. Bush, Barack Obama, etc, speak entirely for you, whether you voted for them or not?

When it's between two assholes and neither of them are good, what is a population to do?

When we talk about democracy, then the population only has themselves to blame. With Bush, it is 100% the fault of the American people because they thought that a dumbass with Gentlemen C's was capable of running a country.

Including you?

I was 12 when Bush was elected.

[SparkyKid3000]

God Emperor Baldur

SparkyKid3000

God Emperor Baldur

kiironobara

God Emperor Baldur

Call it a complex issue, but the bottom line is that they have a majority. Honestly at this point, I doubt nothing short of a full on invasion will end the problem, if even that.

So anyone in American politics who won by a majority is representative of the entire population? George W. Bush, Barack Obama, etc, speak entirely for you, whether you voted for them or not?

When it's between two assholes and neither of them are good, what is a population to do?

When we talk about democracy, then the population only has themselves to blame. With Bush, it is 100% the fault of the American people because they thought that a dumbass with Gentlemen C's was capable of running a country.

Including you?

I was 12 when Bush was elected.

Ok then, so why are you including people who didn't vote for Bush and Hamas in your criticism?

[Bogotanian]

Jamas votan por Hamas emotion_awesome

[Omnileech]

Yeah, like a country willing to murder a hospital is going to agree to those conditions.

[God Emperor Baldur]

SparkyKid3000

God Emperor Baldur

SparkyKid3000

God Emperor Baldur

kiironobara

God Emperor Baldur

Call it a complex issue, but the bottom line is that they have a majority. Honestly at this point, I doubt nothing short of a full on invasion will end the problem, if even that.

So anyone in American politics who won by a majority is representative of the entire population? George W. Bush, Barack Obama, etc, speak entirely for you, whether you voted for them or not?

When it's between two assholes and neither of them are good, what is a population to do?

When we talk about democracy, then the population only has themselves to blame. With Bush, it is 100% the fault of the American people because they thought that a dumbass with Gentlemen C's was capable of running a country.

Including you?

I was 12 when Bush was elected.

Ok then, so why are you including people who didn't vote for Bush and Hamas in your criticism?

Because in the end, Palestinians are the problem. We can argue who started it or what is or isn't justified, but in the end, this problem will not go away until one of them goes away. In which case, which would you rather have? A secular country that has women's rights, universal suffrage, free healthcare and a large chunk og their GDP going to education. Or would you rather have another Islamic state ruled by another brutal dictator who doesn't give a s**t about his people?