Royal Alchemist. Heals, bro. Where they at?

Royal Alchemist survived and got some health back!

Yes, of course.	30.4%	[ 7 ]
Nope. Not that I know of.	21.7%	[ 5 ]
Not sure...haven't really noticed.	21.7%	[ 5 ]
I'll be watching now!	13.0%	[ 3 ]
Just here for gold. Pay me now!	13.0%	[ 3 ]
Total Votes:			[ 23 ]

[Myrielle]

Holeypaladin

Then I'll dress them up as nuns and put them in a lower-risk profession.

Myrielle

Holeypaladin

Or I could use some, you know, DECENT units. I can think of better things to do with cute girls than get them killed.

Myrielle

Holeypaladin

Still won't work as he's always the second person to die, right after Man at Arms.

Stuff some Night Agent meat shields there.

They're in a high risk professions as behavioral analysts are wont to say.

Don't they already look like nuns with their head piece?

[Holeypaladin]

Hm... not quite. Almost.

Myrielle

Holeypaladin

Then I'll dress them up as nuns and put them in a lower-risk profession.

Myrielle

Holeypaladin

Or I could use some, you know, DECENT units. I can think of better things to do with cute girls than get them killed.

Myrielle

Holeypaladin

Still won't work as he's always the second person to die, right after Man at Arms.

Stuff some Night Agent meat shields there.

They're in a high risk professions as behavioral analysts are wont to say.

Don't they already look like nuns with their head piece?

[Myrielle]

Holeypaladin

Hm... not quite. Almost.

Myrielle

Holeypaladin

Then I'll dress them up as nuns and put them in a lower-risk profession.

Myrielle

Holeypaladin

Or I could use some, you know, DECENT units. I can think of better things to do with cute girls than get them killed.

They're in a high risk professions as behavioral analysts are wont to say.

Don't they already look like nuns with their head piece?

[Sapphire Sunday]

Tarako6

Sometimes as often as three times in a row when I use 'em and they live.

Eh..I'd say they should heal 35. Heals of fifty are too much for early game imo, and to have two of their heals equal a Song of silver doesn't sound like a good idea when I think of all the early game battles song of silver changes the tide in. Of course, they're still frontal units with little damage output and aren't that bulky.

Just personally imagining being new and facing something that heals 50 makes me cringe. But, getting out two early could be considered a feat itself in larger decks so maybe I'm just overthinking it. Ofc, as is now, they're fairly hard to use without feeling like you've wasted space. Particularly because anything that actually hurts a unit to a point where it needs healing, will usually kill anything that would tank for the alchemist (and or the alchemist) before the alchemist even gets a chance to use his heal.

Soo..if he could heal 50 he might gain some use in higher level PvP games, but even then, he can be a bit of a walking issue+conundrum.

Your suggestion of 35 seems fair. On second thought, 50 does seem a bit much...it's just that 25 seems so pointless since most attacks are twice that. I like your suggestion, it's a bit more balanced.

[Sapphire Sunday]

Myrielle

Holeypaladin

Alchemist just sucks.

A heal of less than 50 on a 24 mana unit is just a complete waste, considering how many 18 mana units deal 50 damage or more when they attack.

Maybe a Veteran like ability. Every time it survives conflict, the healing power increases by 10.

That's an interesting idea. A small gain each round he survives. I like that idea too. I often think when using him that his lousy 25 attack is worth more than his 25 for an ally since usually 25 isn't enough to help the ally survive another round. Most of the time it's better to get an attack in then wasting two moves.

Plus with your idea of a small increase each survived round the alchemist's value would still depend on the player to use him effictively.

Hrm. Now I don't know if I like your idea better or Tarako6's idea of an increase to 35 healing.

[Holeypaladin]

Longbowman costs 18 mana and deals 41 damage with Veteran 4 (so it often gets over 60).

Dragonspawn savage deals 50 and costs 18.

Penitent warden deals 50 and costs 18.

Lightning demon deals 60 (75 with special) and costs 24.

Floating horror deals 70 and costs 24.

Heavy infantry deals 45 and costs 24.

So for a 24-mana unit's healing ability to be LESS than the attack power of an 18 mana unit is just ridiculously stupid and completely useless.

Sapphire Sunday

Tarako6

Sometimes as often as three times in a row when I use 'em and they live.

Eh..I'd say they should heal 35. Heals of fifty are too much for early game imo, and to have two of their heals equal a Song of silver doesn't sound like a good idea when I think of all the early game battles song of silver changes the tide in. Of course, they're still frontal units with little damage output and aren't that bulky.

Just personally imagining being new and facing something that heals 50 makes me cringe. But, getting out two early could be considered a feat itself in larger decks so maybe I'm just overthinking it. Ofc, as is now, they're fairly hard to use without feeling like you've wasted space. Particularly because anything that actually hurts a unit to a point where it needs healing, will usually kill anything that would tank for the alchemist (and or the alchemist) before the alchemist even gets a chance to use his heal.

Soo..if he could heal 50 he might gain some use in higher level PvP games, but even then, he can be a bit of a walking issue+conundrum.

Your suggestion of 35 seems fair. On second thought, 50 does seem a bit much...it's just that 25 seems so pointless since most attacks are twice that. I like your suggestion, it's a bit more balanced.

[Knight of the Horizon]

Sapphire Sunday

Tarako6

Sometimes as often as three times in a row when I use 'em and they live.

Eh..I'd say they should heal 35. Heals of fifty are too much for early game imo, and to have two of their heals equal a Song of silver doesn't sound like a good idea when I think of all the early game battles song of silver changes the tide in. Of course, they're still frontal units with little damage output and aren't that bulky.

Just personally imagining being new and facing something that heals 50 makes me cringe. But, getting out two early could be considered a feat itself in larger decks so maybe I'm just overthinking it. Ofc, as is now, they're fairly hard to use without feeling like you've wasted space. Particularly because anything that actually hurts a unit to a point where it needs healing, will usually kill anything that would tank for the alchemist (and or the alchemist) before the alchemist even gets a chance to use his heal.

Soo..if he could heal 50 he might gain some use in higher level PvP games, but even then, he can be a bit of a walking issue+conundrum.

Your suggestion of 35 seems fair. On second thought, 50 does seem a bit much...it's just that 25 seems so pointless since most attacks are twice that. I like your suggestion, it's a bit more balanced.

Increase damage AND healing to 35 and let him target himself :U Then I might use him (maybe).

[Sapphire Sunday]

Holeypaladin

Longbowman costs 18 mana and deals 41 damage with Veteran 4 (so it often gets over 60).

Dragonspawn savage deals 50 and costs 18.

Penitent warden deals 50 and costs 18.

Lightning demon deals 60 (75 with special) and costs 24.

Floating horror deals 70 and costs 24.

Heavy infantry deals 45 and costs 24.

So for a 24-mana unit's healing ability to be LESS than the attack power of an 18 mana unit is just ridiculously stupid and completely useless.

Ooh, interesting. Would you suggest an increase in heals then or maybe a decrease in the cost of mana to use him? What do you think would be fair and more balanced?

[Holeypaladin]

Row 2 unit, 18 mana or so, 10-AP ability that heals 50. Remove the postrecovery, too.

Even that would only be useful in small fights, but a lot of fights are small.

Sapphire Sunday

Holeypaladin

Longbowman costs 18 mana and deals 41 damage with Veteran 4 (so it often gets over 60).

Dragonspawn savage deals 50 and costs 18.

Penitent warden deals 50 and costs 18.

Lightning demon deals 60 (75 with special) and costs 24.

Floating horror deals 70 and costs 24.

Heavy infantry deals 45 and costs 24.

So for a 24-mana unit's healing ability to be LESS than the attack power of an 18 mana unit is just ridiculously stupid and completely useless.

Ooh, interesting. Would you suggest an increase in heals then or maybe a decrease in the cost of mana to use him? What do you think would be fair and more balanced?

[Knight of the Horizon]

Or lower his cost to 18 and make him row 2. o3o

Not sure what he's doing in row 1 when he has weak knees and can barely fight. xd

[Sapphire Sunday]

Ze3k

Increase damage AND healing to 35 and let him target himself :U Then I might use him (maybe).

Oooh, I'm not sure I like the idea of him targeting himself and a chance of healing after battle. I oddly like that he can only target allies. Also not sure if I'd want to increase his damage. Seems a pretty common theme to have healers with low attacks in many games but usually they have some baller healing abilities when that is the case usually.

It seems most people are agreeing here that as is the alchemist is not a highly valued card for most decks.

Oh, and thank you for the avi compliment. smile

[Knight of the Horizon]

Tarako6

Heals of fifty are too much for early game imo, and to have two of their heals equal a Song of silver doesn't sound like a good idea when I think of all the early game battles song of silver changes the tide in. Of course, they're still frontal units with little damage output and aren't that bulky.

How many early battles does an extra heavy infantry change the tide in? xd

[Knight of the Horizon]

Sapphire Sunday

Ze3k

Increase damage AND healing to 35 and let him target himself :U Then I might use him (maybe).

Oooh, I'm not sure I like the idea of him targeting himself and a chance of healing after battle. I oddly like that he can only target allies. Also not sure if I'd want to increase his damage. Seems a pretty common theme to have healers with low attacks in many games but usually they have some baller healing abilities when that is the case usually.

It seems most people are agreeing here that as is the alchemist is not a highly valued card for most decks.

Oh, and thank you for the avi compliment. smile

35 is still crap for a 24-cost unit. 3nodding And he has to attack quite often. Healers in those other games probably don't have to attack as much and have other support abilities to use instead. ;o

The allies-only problem is that he'll probably get attacked first anyways, especially if he has a decent healing ability. :U If he's gonna be allies-only, then he needs to be row 2. confused

Oh and np!~ heart I just love those colors. <3

EDIT: Oh and yes, I've tried him before.. He usually can barely take as much (if as much) damage as a heavy infantry and deals like half the damage.. so yeah, he's useless right now. 3nodding

[Sapphire Sunday]

Ze3k

Sapphire Sunday

Ze3k

Increase damage AND healing to 35 and let him target himself :U Then I might use him (maybe).

Oooh, I'm not sure I like the idea of him targeting himself and a chance of healing after battle. I oddly like that he can only target allies. Also not sure if I'd want to increase his damage. Seems a pretty common theme to have healers with low attacks in many games but usually they have some baller healing abilities when that is the case usually.

It seems most people are agreeing here that as is the alchemist is not a highly valued card for most decks.

Oh, and thank you for the avi compliment. smile

35 is still crap for a 24-cost unit. 3nodding And he has to attack quite often. Healers in those other games probably don't have to attack as much and have other support abilities to use instead. ;o

The allies-only problem is that he'll probably get attacked first anyways, especially if he has a decent healing ability. :U If he's gonna be allies-only, then he needs to be row 2. confused

Oh and np!~ heart I just love those colors. <3

I'll admit I have been rather frustrated with him in row 1....that is clearly why his knees are shaking. I can't think of many reasons to have a healer in row 1 except as a meat shield. I do often use him as an attacker even when his heal is available.

I think we all agree the alchemist needs some tweaking yet.

I like everyone's suggestions so far...usually I'm not so fond of the forums and the suggestions that come along. smile Maybe some game developers will like some of the suggestions too!

[Haku of Kirigakure]

Sapphire Sunday

*Seems we mostly all agree this shakey knee boy needs some tweaking to make him a man!*

Suggestions to consider:

1. Increase heals to 50 per round.
2. Increase heals to 35 per round.
3. Increase heals in small incrimates (say 10) each round he survives.
4. Increase damage and heals.
5. Lower his cost from 24 to 18.
6. Increase his chance to heal after battle.
7. Allow him to heal himself as well as allies.
8. Always put him in Row 2.

Another tweak that I think might make him a merit to his cost, in conjunction with the augmented healing, would be giving him Armor 10. He seems to be intended as a tank that can heal up after battle while recovering your allied units, however he doesn't have the capacity to endure those blows coming his way.
This would make him almost as durable as the Heavy Infantry, (another 24-mana, row-1 tank,) with his offensive capacity traded out for helping the team recover health lost in battles previous. Without that greater durability, he is often targeted first and killed within the first two rounds, nullifying his ability to heal and, thusly, what would make him a valuable unit.


In short, give him Armor 10 along with Heal 35 or Heal 50 so that he can actually live long enough to see a second battle.