Proposal: Change Essence Reward

[CelesaAkitaka]

Wouldn't this just count for boosting though? If you crush your opponent and they have little to no units, you could just keep building an army with them pinned and get tons of mana while forcing them to just sit there and lose.

This would still limit the ways of victory. Hmm, instead of pointing flaws, I'm trying to find something more suitable.

Well as Locutus_Argolis said, having a point system may work a bit better. I know there are matches already where if someone has a lot of better cards than someone else, they'll corner them so I can see that being manipulated.

I'm thinking there needs to be an award bonus for how you win - X amount of points for getting 6 portals (a bonus perhaps for getting opponent's main portal so it does encourage either brute force or cunning to get it), X amount for defeating for a complete victory, and so on. You can add bonuses to it too like +amount for kills if you defeated the opponent's army or +amount for avoiding battles. It's a bit complicated, but it will also limit cheating in a sense.

And yeah, for me, when I play people sometimes, they will leave me a little space and have their 20 units while I have 1. They'll wait for me to get more before moving in to get points. At that point, I've lost, I get it, and all I can do is forfeit and get nothing or watch them manipulate the game. Really, I just stop summoning units and watch them not move in.

[Marie Mac Lir]

That makes no sense at all... but then again I was never good at math sweatdrop

[vero14_70]

Locutus_Argolis

Panagrammic

The current essence reward system has a couple odd aspects:

- forfeit during a battle means the winner gets "cheated"
- doesn't encourage different modes of play. If you sneak around and get all 6 portals, that is a brilliant victory -- but you won't get much because you didn't kill the other person

We are considering the following changes:

- essence is based on total summoned units, not killed units (say, nn% of all summoned units -- not sure yet what the right percentage would be)
- essence reward is split based on the different in portals.

For example, let's say you win 6 points to 4. You summoned 100 mana of units, and your opponent summoned 120. Say we're using 80% of all summoned units.

Total summons = 100 + 120 = 220 * 80% = 176 mana

You get 176 * (6 / 10) = 105.6
Opponent gets 176 * (4 / 10) = 70.4

... and then efactor would be applied.

Questions / concerns below.

How about just a point system
everything you do gives you points
Summons
Kills
Captured Portals
and then a bonus for victory a % bonus of your score the better you do the better you get
but as an insentive maybe give the loser a what did you call it a Chaos Key?

Oh I like the idea to give for eveything smile
Thought I would do that for winner and loser, thought loser get maybe 80% and winner 100% (not those % but just a example so the loser get less wink )

[Panagrammic]

We considered a bonus if the game was finished <= n, but it kind of seems artificial. Other possibility is to allow people to forfeit without penalty if the game is over nn turns? Not sure if there are other possible solutions.

Omnileech

Do something to discourage drawing out a fight. It is infuriating to have lost a fight and have the other person just sit there so you can get a couple more units to get more essence from when they decide to curbstomp you.

Currently you can forfeit that kind of fight, but then you don't get the bonus card.

[lililira]

vero14_70

Locutus_Argolis

Panagrammic

The current essence reward system has a couple odd aspects:

- forfeit during a battle means the winner gets "cheated"
- doesn't encourage different modes of play. If you sneak around and get all 6 portals, that is a brilliant victory -- but you won't get much because you didn't kill the other person

We are considering the following changes:

- essence is based on total summoned units, not killed units (say, nn% of all summoned units -- not sure yet what the right percentage would be)
- essence reward is split based on the different in portals.

For example, let's say you win 6 points to 4. You summoned 100 mana of units, and your opponent summoned 120. Say we're using 80% of all summoned units.

Total summons = 100 + 120 = 220 * 80% = 176 mana

You get 176 * (6 / 10) = 105.6
Opponent gets 176 * (4 / 10) = 70.4

... and then efactor would be applied.

Questions / concerns below.

How about just a point system
everything you do gives you points
Summons
Kills
Captured Portals
and then a bonus for victory a % bonus of your score the better you do the better you get
but as an insentive maybe give the loser a what did you call it a Chaos Key?

Oh I like the idea to give for eveything smile
Thought I would do that for winner and loser, thought loser get maybe 80% and winner 100% (not those % but just a example so the loser get less wink )

I would be fine with this. Just so long as the winner gets more essence, because otherwise it wouldn't really be fair.

[CelesaAkitaka]

If there is a forfeit after X turns possibly, no penalty.
In the Yu-Gi-Oh games, they make you wait at least 10 turns so that you can't just quit over and over and get bonus cards still.

Panagrammic

We considered a bonus if the game was finished <= n, but it kind of seems artificial. Other possibility is to allow people to forfeit without penalty if the game is over nn turns? Not sure if there are other possible solutions.

Omnileech

Do something to discourage drawing out a fight. It is infuriating to have lost a fight and have the other person just sit there so you can get a couple more units to get more essence from when they decide to curbstomp you.

Currently you can forfeit that kind of fight, but then you don't get the bonus card.

[vero14_70]

lililira

I would be fine with this. Just so long as the winner gets more essence, because otherwise it wouldn't really be fair.

They could still do that with forfeit smile like the person that forfeit is like the loser and the other one is the winner

At limit they could do:
winner : 100%, loser 80%
Person that forfeit: 60% or lower, Person that is left: 80% or 100% like the winner

(all % are only to show that winner need to get more than loser and the person that is left more than the person that forfeit) wink

[Kakaroch]

When will this get implemented?

[lililira]

vero14_70

lililira

I would be fine with this. Just so long as the winner gets more essence, because otherwise it wouldn't really be fair.

They could still do that with forfeit smile like the person that forfeit is like the loser and the other one is the winner

At limit they could do:
winner : 100%, loser 80%
Person that forfeit: 60% or lower, Person that is left: 80% or 100% like the winner

(all % are only to show that winner need to get more than loser and the person that is left more than the person that forfeit) wink

But the problem with that is that the forfeiters get a substantial reward. I personally wouldn't want someone ragequitting on me if we're evenly matched but it looks like they'll lose and still getting it, especially if it takes away from my own essence. I do think you should get some reward even if you forfeit so you could get something to help you make your deck better than it is at the moment so that you don't get curbstomped so badly the next time.

As for the high percents, this would put so much more essence into the game. Pack prices would rise, and the essence to gold conversion ratio would be nerfed again, and would make it way harder for newbies to get enough essence to start off.

My idea:
Normal win: between 70% winner, 50% loser and 95% winner, 30% loser
Forfeit win: between 100% winner, 20% loser and 110% winner, and 10% loser

Please note that the forfeit percents are based on the assumption that a Forfeit win would have a lower essence total than a Normal win.

[gataka]

Hmm, question: why a point system, or put another way, why not a flat win > get X, lose > get Z (let's ignore forfeits for now) set up? Why differentiate between victories?

I presume maintaining a certain playtime > essence ratio is part of the answer but is that all?

[Exhululath]

I agree with the ones that suggested to give points for "everything" and weighting it on how the game ends. About forfeit, it's easy: make it that when someone forfeits, he loses and the other player wins, but the one who forfeits gets even less essence that a "normal" lost game and, most important, no card. You still reward him (even if with just a bit essence) for having played. The winner will get essence and card as for a normal victory, with the bonus given for the total defeat of the enemy's army (because the two situations are somewhat similar).
About the ones procrastinating a certain victory, find a way to penalize them. Like, after a given turn the winner will have a penalty (increased for every extra turn) at a point that waiting for the opponent to summon more units will not be very rewarding or even result in a loss of essence in the final reward.

[lililira]

I do kind of wonder why this has been thought of in the first place. If you work harder for a victory, you should get more essence. That's just common sense. The way this might work out is that if you win due to rushing the portals in a quick game, you might get more to essence than if you really fight hard in a long game. If it works out like this it might also totally wreck the HoC economy. You can do many quick portal rush games in the time it would take to fight a long battle.

More essence in the system due to the above = Higher pack prices + Nerfed Essence to gold ratio = Harder for newbies to get a good start = Less people play the game = It gets dropped just like zOMG.

[vero14_70]

lililira

vero14_70

lililira

I would be fine with this. Just so long as the winner gets more essence, because otherwise it wouldn't really be fair.

They could still do that with forfeit smile like the person that forfeit is like the loser and the other one is the winner

At limit they could do:
winner : 100%, loser 80%
Person that forfeit: 60% or lower, Person that is left: 80% or 100% like the winner

(all % are only to show that winner need to get more than loser and the person that is left more than the person that forfeit) wink

But the problem with that is that the forfeiters get a substantial reward. I personally wouldn't want someone ragequitting on me if we're evenly matched but it looks like they'll lose and still getting it, especially if it takes away from my own essence. I do think you should get some reward even if you forfeit so you could get something to help you make your deck better than it is at the moment so that you don't get curbstomped so badly the next time.

As for the high percents, this would put so much more essence into the game. Pack prices would rise, and the essence to gold conversion ratio would be nerfed again, and would make it way harder for newbies to get enough essence to start off.

My idea:
Normal win: between 70% winner, 50% loser and 95% winner, 30% loser
Forfeit win: between 100% winner, 20% loser and 110% winner, and 10% loser

Please note that the forfeit percents are based on the assumption that a Forfeit win would have a lower essence total than a Normal win.

like I wrote the % aren't what they need to give wink it is to show that a winner need to get more than loser and that ''winner forfeit'' should have between same or a little less than normal winner and that loser should still get essence.

Thought for forfeit, they could do that after x number of turn, so people don't play quit non-stop.
Maybe after 10 turns (not sure if it is too much, never realise how much turn I normally do)

[Elyria Stone]

I can't say i like it too much - I've often been stuck and not able to summon units because I'll get all high point cards. I like the current system, but perhaps you could enhance it by adding extra points for each portal and each summoned unit - that would even things out a bit.

I also have a question - I have lots of duplicate cards - is there a sellback option?

[Locutus_Argolis]

Omnileech

Do something to discourage drawing out a fight. It is infuriating to have lost a fight and have the other person just sit there so you can get a couple more units to get more essence from when they decide to curbstomp you.

Currently you can forfeit that kind of fight, but then you don't get the bonus card.

Wait... Omnileech lost a fight?

dude... I dueled you once and forfeited 1st fight xD