White Gay Men stealing Black Female culture

[Shaqueefalot]

This thread was posted in General Discussion but that was definitely a mistake if i wanted a genuine discussion on such a hot topic.

This thread isn't to say that cultural appropriation isn't a thing but there's a lot of things that people seem to not understand when it comes to the difference between White gay male culture and Black female culture that kind of irk me.

This is a topic (mostly the whole cultural appropriation and white people bit) that i've been pretty unsettled about.Now i don't mean to start any heated arguments, although i know it might end there by how i'm trying to go about this. i'm also not trying to say who suffers more in society, obviously people who are a racial minority suffer but i won't say worse than other minorities only because it's circumstantial and subjective.

This whole idea about black female culture being "stolen" by white gay men started, for me, when this U of Mississippi senior Sierra Mannie wrote "Dear White Gay Men...". i took the liberty of highlighting some points she makes that i think are completely wrong and i will explain why, but first i will say she is completely correct when she says it is wrong for a white gay man to throw out any stereotypical "black" phrases or just really anything that can perpetuate a negative idea about black women or just black people in general.

"..you do not get to claim either blackness or womanhood."
"But here’s the shade."
"while you’re gasping at the heat and the steam of the strong truth tea I just spilled."
"if you are a white male, gay or not, you retain so much privilege."
"(You know what I’m talking about. Those “anonymous” torsos on Grindr, Jack’d and Adam4Adam show very familiar heterosexual faces to the public.)"
"So, you aren’t a strong black woman, or a ghetto girl"

First i just want to start this off by saying YOU do not own womanhood; you do not own femininity and saying so is sexist, homophobic and transphobic. Now that i've gotten that off my chest there are a few more things she touches on that are a bit offensive and hypocritical.

"Shade" is a phrase that started along with the ballroom scene in Harlem, gay men, not just black gay men (but yes a highly population of gay men of color) used this phrase as a way to reiterate the power of a "read".



Telling us that we can hide our sexuality to "fit in" is another way of enforcing the taboo of sexuality on the public and instills a sort of shame on the gay community. it's basically saying "you're not normal, but you can act normal and pretend to be normal."

You also don't own the phrase "ghetto girl" nor are you allowed to label anyone with that identity because no race or gender owns that phrase, GURL.

Also, "truth tea" is a pretty silly way to just say "t" which is widely used in the gay community to emphasis the "truth" we just spilled as a double entendre. Yeah cultural appropriation hurts, especially when you do it in an article in Times magazine.

Really good read, a reply to "Dear White Gay Men..."

tl;dr
"Gay men do not experience patriarchal power or white privilege in the same way gender normative white men do." - Anthony Michael Dagostino



also, can it with the ******** "you can't talk about race, you're white" s**t. This is about White gay men (me) and Black female culture.

[HMS Thunder Child]

It's not transphobic to tell men that women own womanhood. It is not sexist or homophobic either.

PS: Womanhood != femininity

Also, gay white men still benefit heavily from white privilege and male privilege. Case in point, who is the face of LGBT? Who is the face of Stonewall?

A more specific example: When facebook started that crackdown on names, was it framed around drag queens (optional) or transpeople (not optional)?

Hint: all cisgay dudes, practically all white.

[Shaqueefalot]

HMS Thunder Child

It's not transphobic to tell men that women own womanhood. It is not sexist or homophobic either.

PS: Womanhood != femininity

Also, gay white men still benefit heavily from white privilege and male privilege. Case in point, who is the face of LGBT? Who is the face of Stonewall?

A more specific example: When facebook started that crackdown on names, was it framed around drag queens (optional) or transpeople (not optional)?

Hint: all cisgay dudes, practically all white.

No, feminity is not owned by women that is what i'm saying. (sorry if i worded it wrong) You can't say gay men can't be feminine, that is sexist and homophobic and transphobic.

Straight white man doesn't fear straight bashing.
Gay white man fears gay bashing.

it was focused around anyone who had a "unrealistic name" there was no group being attacked.

[HMS Thunder Child]

Shaqueefalot

HMS Thunder Child

It's not transphobic to tell men that women own womanhood. It is not sexist or homophobic either.

PS: Womanhood != femininity

Also, gay white men still benefit heavily from white privilege and male privilege. Case in point, who is the face of LGBT? Who is the face of Stonewall?

A more specific example: When facebook started that crackdown on names, was it framed around drag queens (optional) or transpeople (not optional)?

Hint: all cisgay dudes, practically all white.

No, feminity is not owned by women that is what i'm saying. (sorry if i worded it wrong) You can't say gay men can't be feminine, that is sexist and homophobic and transphobic.

Straight white man doesn't fear straight bashing.
Gay white man fears gay bashing.

it was focused around anyone who had a "unrealistic name" there was no group being attacked.

Gay white man still benefits from being white and male with a few distinctions. Control for being queer and white men end up on top.

And of course no one group was under attack but the problem was framed around drag queens not being able to have accounts with their stage names (a lesser issue IMO) and transpeople barely got a footnote, at best.

[Shaqueefalot]

HMS Thunder Child

Shaqueefalot

HMS Thunder Child

It's not transphobic to tell men that women own womanhood. It is not sexist or homophobic either.

PS: Womanhood != femininity

Also, gay white men still benefit heavily from white privilege and male privilege. Case in point, who is the face of LGBT? Who is the face of Stonewall?

A more specific example: When facebook started that crackdown on names, was it framed around drag queens (optional) or transpeople (not optional)?

Hint: all cisgay dudes, practically all white.

No, feminity is not owned by women that is what i'm saying. (sorry if i worded it wrong) You can't say gay men can't be feminine, that is sexist and homophobic and transphobic.

Straight white man doesn't fear straight bashing.
Gay white man fears gay bashing.

it was focused around anyone who had a "unrealistic name" there was no group being attacked.

Gay white man still benefits from being white and male with a few distinctions. Control for being queer and white men end up on top.

And of course no one group was under attack but the problem was framed around drag queens not being able to have accounts with their stage names (a lesser issue IMO) and transpeople barely got a footnote, at best.

i'm gonna just repost this because i think i summed up why this argument is invalid. Also, trans is an umbrella term that drag queens fall under so technically that whole statement is invalid and you're also comparing gender identities with artistic expression which is subjective because some drag queens are transsexual i.e. Carmen Carrera.

Quote:

you're telling me because my struggles aren't any person of color therefore i am above them socially. My differences from a white straight man is my disadvantage and if all you can see is color in this then there really is no where this discussion is going; we are not on common ground and can't walk in each others shoes.

if i even have an inkling of fear because my differences might get me killed that is where i say white privilege does not help me, therefore i do not benefit. if i have fear that i could possibly be fired or not hired from a job because the inkling of my femininity comes out that someone finds uncomfortable. Just because you think i can land a job easier than any person of color doesn't mean any of my co workers want to sit next to me or eat lunch with me. Just because you think a cop won't stop me because my skin is white it doesn't mean he won't look away when i'm being mugged or harassed because of an assumed identity that's different than "norm". Just because i have a perfect family in a nice col de sac doesn't mean my neighbor wants to invite me over for dinner or let me borrow a cup of sugar.

i've been gay bashed, never insulted or ridiculed for my skin color. i've been isolated from social groups in school because i wasn't "normal", not because of my skin color.

a person of color is insulted and maybe even bashed for their skin color, not their sexuality.

Do you see where i'm going with this?
Just because my struggles aren't race related, doesn't mean my life is easy and it doesn't make me less of a minority.

edit:: sorry, Carmen is transsexual.

[The Ice Dervish]

Or people could stop being so sensitive about who uses who's slang. Seriously. Entire cultures shouldn't be able to put a monopoly on certain words and ways of speaking.

[Shaqueefalot]

The Ice Dervish

Or people could stop being so sensitive about who uses who's slang. Seriously. Entire cultures shouldn't be able to put a monopoly on certain words and ways of speaking.

i agreeeeee

this whole argument really started in one of the biggest cultural melting pots and i think it's really silly how sensitive people get about "culture being stolen".

[Bogotanian]

Lol at Thread Title

[The Ice Dervish]

Shaqueefalot

The Ice Dervish

Or people could stop being so sensitive about who uses who's slang. Seriously. Entire cultures shouldn't be able to put a monopoly on certain words and ways of speaking.

i agreeeeee

this whole argument really started in one of the biggest cultural melting pots and i think it's really silly how sensitive people get about "culture being stolen".

Same, seriously pisses me off. There's no reason to get so up in arms about some simple words, there are only so many words, why take ownership of any of them? Who honestly cares if some gay guy speaks the same way you do? Seems retarded to get offended by something like this.

[Shaqueefalot]

Bogotanian

Lol at Thread Title

i mean this is what people have been telling me idk

how would you word it?

[Shaqueefalot]

The Ice Dervish

Shaqueefalot

The Ice Dervish

Or people could stop being so sensitive about who uses who's slang. Seriously. Entire cultures shouldn't be able to put a monopoly on certain words and ways of speaking.

i agreeeeee

this whole argument really started in one of the biggest cultural melting pots and i think it's really silly how sensitive people get about "culture being stolen".

Same, seriously pisses me off. There's no reason to get so up in arms about some simple words, there are only so many words, why take ownership of any of them? Who honestly cares if some gay guy speaks the same way you do? Seems retarded to get offended by something like this.

like i don't get mad because Tyra and NeNe Leaks identify as drag queens? And why should i? They obviously appreciate drag queens.

When has appreciation become appropriation?

[The Ice Dervish]

Shaqueefalot

The Ice Dervish

Shaqueefalot

The Ice Dervish

Or people could stop being so sensitive about who uses who's slang. Seriously. Entire cultures shouldn't be able to put a monopoly on certain words and ways of speaking.

i agreeeeee

this whole argument really started in one of the biggest cultural melting pots and i think it's really silly how sensitive people get about "culture being stolen".

Same, seriously pisses me off. There's no reason to get so up in arms about some simple words, there are only so many words, why take ownership of any of them? Who honestly cares if some gay guy speaks the same way you do? Seems retarded to get offended by something like this.

like i don't get mad because Tyra and NeNe Leaks identify as drag queens? And why should i? They obviously appreciate drag queens.

When has appreciation become appropriation?

I don't ******** know man, it's ridiculous. It's like they haven't learned that copying is the greatest form of flattery.

[Shaqueefalot]

The Ice Dervish

Shaqueefalot

The Ice Dervish

Shaqueefalot

The Ice Dervish

Or people could stop being so sensitive about who uses who's slang. Seriously. Entire cultures shouldn't be able to put a monopoly on certain words and ways of speaking.

i agreeeeee

this whole argument really started in one of the biggest cultural melting pots and i think it's really silly how sensitive people get about "culture being stolen".

Same, seriously pisses me off. There's no reason to get so up in arms about some simple words, there are only so many words, why take ownership of any of them? Who honestly cares if some gay guy speaks the same way you do? Seems retarded to get offended by something like this.

like i don't get mad because Tyra and NeNe Leaks identify as drag queens? And why should i? They obviously appreciate drag queens.

When has appreciation become appropriation?

I don't ******** know man, it's ridiculous. It's like they haven't learned that copying is the greatest form of flattery.

like plaid is a good example of cultural appreciation or "cultural diversion". Music and instruments, religion and accents; all great examples that nobody looks at.

But twerking, oh my god, not twerking you can't do that.

[The Ice Dervish]

Shaqueefalot

The Ice Dervish

Shaqueefalot

The Ice Dervish

Shaqueefalot

The Ice Dervish

Or people could stop being so sensitive about who uses who's slang. Seriously. Entire cultures shouldn't be able to put a monopoly on certain words and ways of speaking.

i agreeeeee

this whole argument really started in one of the biggest cultural melting pots and i think it's really silly how sensitive people get about "culture being stolen".

Same, seriously pisses me off. There's no reason to get so up in arms about some simple words, there are only so many words, why take ownership of any of them? Who honestly cares if some gay guy speaks the same way you do? Seems retarded to get offended by something like this.

like i don't get mad because Tyra and NeNe Leaks identify as drag queens? And why should i? They obviously appreciate drag queens.

When has appreciation become appropriation?

I don't ******** know man, it's ridiculous. It's like they haven't learned that copying is the greatest form of flattery.

like plaid is a good example of cultural appreciation or "cultural diversion". Music and instruments, religion and accents; all great examples that nobody looks at.

But twerking, oh my god, not twerking you can't do that.

Good point, a lot of the things we wear today where brought over from other cultures, they don't seem all that offended. I don't see any asians getting pissy because a white girl wanted to wear a kimono. Or any mexicans getting all up in arms about someone not hispanic wearing a pancho.

[Shaqueefalot]

The Ice Dervish

Shaqueefalot

The Ice Dervish

Shaqueefalot

The Ice Dervish

Same, seriously pisses me off. There's no reason to get so up in arms about some simple words, there are only so many words, why take ownership of any of them? Who honestly cares if some gay guy speaks the same way you do? Seems retarded to get offended by something like this.

like i don't get mad because Tyra and NeNe Leaks identify as drag queens? And why should i? They obviously appreciate drag queens.

When has appreciation become appropriation?

I don't ******** know man, it's ridiculous. It's like they haven't learned that copying is the greatest form of flattery.

like plaid is a good example of cultural appreciation or "cultural diversion". Music and instruments, religion and accents; all great examples that nobody looks at.

But twerking, oh my god, not twerking you can't do that.

Good point, a lot of the things we wear today where brought over from other cultures, they don't seem all that offended. I don't see any asians getting pissy because a white girl wanted to wear a kimono. Or any mexicans getting all up in arms about someone not hispanic wearing a pancho.

i love ponchos.