We Should legalize machine guns

[Suicidesoldier#1]

Turgid Rhetoric

I'd rather just stick to ARs and 12 gauges. Easier to carry--for a woman anyways--and the rounds much cheaper. Dependable, too. M240s irritate me, and 50 cals, navy mounted ones, are equivalent to s**t. Additionally, four-dollars per round, HA! Not in this universe. And that's mostly at a minimum.

While that's the *technical* definition of a machine gun, the legal definition bans any fully automatic weapon, or weapon, that fires in burst.

[Turgid Rhetoric]

Suicidesoldier#1

Turgid Rhetoric

I'd rather just stick to ARs and 12 gauges. Easier to carry--for a woman anyways--and the rounds much cheaper. Dependable, too. M240s irritate me, and 50 cals, navy mounted ones, are equivalent to s**t. Additionally, four-dollars per round, HA! Not in this universe. And that's mostly at a minimum.

While that's the *technical* definition of a machine gun, the legal definition bans any fully automatic weapon, or weapon, that fires in burst.

I really don't think we're in contention, here.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

Turgid Rhetoric

Suicidesoldier#1

Turgid Rhetoric

I'd rather just stick to ARs and 12 gauges. Easier to carry--for a woman anyways--and the rounds much cheaper. Dependable, too. M240s irritate me, and 50 cals, navy mounted ones, are equivalent to s**t. Additionally, four-dollars per round, HA! Not in this universe. And that's mostly at a minimum.

While that's the *technical* definition of a machine gun, the legal definition bans any fully automatic weapon, or weapon, that fires in burst.

I really don't think we're in contention, here.

I know. ninja

I just like illustrating that fact. xp



Also adding a stock to a pistol to make it more accurate makes it illegal unless you get that stamp and signed papers D:

And a pistol grip and forward grip make a weapon an assault weapon abbrrgwwrrhhrwrghhagghhlll...

[Fullmetal Joestar]

Guns are cool!!! Some people just use them for shooting targets (like my friend). Just because someone owns firearms doesn't mean he/she is a killer.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

Santo Mierda

Quote:

Well, it's just the lower receiver that's the gun, right? I *think* you can replace all the pieces and completely rebuild the gun, but you'd have to actually physically have the ability to replace all the pieces, which basically means, having all your own equipment. Hypothetically, an Uzi could be turned into an M16 and vice versa, since it's all about the tax stamp, but doing that is the hard part, especially when you only intend on making one, for that specific gun.

I'm no lawyer but I think that would be highly illegal. The second you start cutting on the lower to modify it into a different gun, at least on a machine gun you have officially destroyed the machine gun and are now guilty of producing a post 86 MG. And you are correct. The lower is the firearm, At least with a AR-15 and it's military offshoots, So you can go out and buy a bushmaster at Walmart, Bring it home, Gut your 86 MG, Including the auto sear switch, and replace everything with the bushmaster's "guts" and legally, So long as it's in that lower it is legally a MG, but if you drop everything from the M16 into the bushy lower for the selector, You just made a MG. You can also change out the upper on certain guns, For example you can put an AR-57 upper on a M16 and it will still legally be the MG.

Some guns use different types of frames and such, For example I can think of one pistol, a Sig I believe, where the legal firearm is a fire control group hammer box thingy, I'd say it's actual name but I have no idea what it is. And some people may have registered "Lightning links" a little strip of metal that can make a AR-15 fully automatic, And those I believe can be transfered between ARs without turning each one legally into a machine gun.

To my knowledge, you can replace all the parts on them when they wear out, provided you can legally modify the weapons (I.E. have the licenses to do so). So, essentially, you could "repair it" to the point it's a whole other gun, although you may get some frownie faces by some people.




[

Quote:

Quote:

Bitchin. cool

Indeed it is.

You still need to be a part of someone else's trust though, so, that takes being a part of a thousand man trust or something, which can be a problem. sweatdrop

Quote:

Quote:

Well, for the average person, the recoil may be a bit intense, so they would prefer a smaller more manoeuvrable and lighter recoil SMG. IMO it's not that big of a deal, I love guns so it's no issue for me, and the first time I ever shot a 12 gauge I handled the recoil so well to this day my dad swearsesz he thought I shot it from the hip, so it's less of a problem. But, I prefer heavier weapons anyways, like a .45 or .308; to the average person, a 9mm or 5.56mm tends to be more trendier, so I figure, it would help them more, and a wider range of users could have as nearly an effective weapon. xp

I'm the same as you, Give me something with some kick to it, and recoil often handles differently based on the gun. My polymer furniture Mossberg handles buck better than my Heavy, Wood furniture Remington 1100 handles birdshot, so it could help for people to look around for what suits them and what they can handle. In no way am I suggesting a 110 pound person picks up a S&W500 for defense, I'm just saying what I prefer. And IMO, when it comes time to use the gun in home defense, The adrenaline should help with not feeling and handling the recoil.

Not as much of an issue for me, but the 5.56mm and 9mm are popular, even in the military, I imagine largely due to it's ease of use by the average person. Regardless, a machinegun 12 guage would be cool, too. ninja

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Fun fact, 7.62×39 and 5.45×39 is technically pistol ammo now thanks to a handful of asshats and the ATF deeming it " Armor piercing handgun ammunition

WAIT WUT?! HOAWWW>??~!!!!

Some moron/Jackass in Tennessee built a pistol variant of a 74 for a "Production prototype" for the sole purpose of getting teh ammo banned last yesr and that "reclassified" the ammunition as pistol ammunition, Making it illegal to import Soviet surplus due to the mild steel core. New production can be imported, But no cheap surplus, and some people in the industry were talking about making a 47 pistol a while back, And the talk of it got it banned, So since they already SNAFU'd the ammo supply they went ahead and started making em.

According to him, after his charges are dismissed(Made illegal suppressors or something, Don't recall) he is going to make a pistol in 7.62×54r to get that banned too.

Herm... I thought it was just the Russian import ban? Idk.

Quote:

Quote:

Necessity? It's not about what's necessary, it's about what's good. Being more accurate means less misses, which means less civilian casualties. Higher accuracy is a good thing. Semi autos may have less power and demand more bullets than their counter parts, but they tend to hit where you want them to more often, which is a good thing. That's what I want, to not miss as often.

The drop in power between semi autos and manual actions is insignificant, maybe 15-30 FPS maximum.

Well, it's easier to use, is the thing. It's not really about velocity so much as it is about ergonomics; your first few rounds with any gun will miss, but with a semi auto you have more chances to correct, and thus ultimately you end up with a higher hit ratio than revolvers, where hesitation and slow correction times due to the lower round count often leads to worse results. So, if you're super comfortable with a revolver and really good with it, it may be less of an issue, but if you're a normal person and 6 rounds doesn't feel like quite enough, it's harder to use.

I suppose is my point. Of what happened more or less. xp
I believe the adjustment on a revolver comes from more recoil and muzzle flip, And less from a attempt to conserve ammunition, Whereas a properly held auto almost comes straight back, My 9mm barely kicks up when I'm magdumping biggrin and same with my .45, I do however as mentioned above have guns in the same cal that just don't handle the recoil as well.
Well, recoil can be an issue ,but usually revolvers have less recoil than semis, without a reciprocating bolt, unless you're firing a larger cartridge, such as .357; .38's are also common though, and their recoil is near negligible. xp

[Santo Mierda]

Suicidesoldier#1

Santo Mierda

Quote:

Well, it's just the lower receiver that's the gun, right? I *think* you can replace all the pieces and completely rebuild the gun, but you'd have to actually physically have the ability to replace all the pieces, which basically means, having all your own equipment. Hypothetically, an Uzi could be turned into an M16 and vice versa, since it's all about the tax stamp, but doing that is the hard part, especially when you only intend on making one, for that specific gun.

I'm no lawyer but I think that would be highly illegal. The second you start cutting on the lower to modify it into a different gun, at least on a machine gun you have officially destroyed the machine gun and are now guilty of producing a post 86 MG. And you are correct. The lower is the firearm, At least with a AR-15 and it's military offshoots, So you can go out and buy a bushmaster at Walmart, Bring it home, Gut your 86 MG, Including the auto sear switch, and replace everything with the bushmaster's "guts" and legally, So long as it's in that lower it is legally a MG, but if you drop everything from the M16 into the bushy lower for the selector, You just made a MG. You can also change out the upper on certain guns, For example you can put an AR-57 upper on a M16 and it will still legally be the MG.

Some guns use different types of frames and such, For example I can think of one pistol, a Sig I believe, where the legal firearm is a fire control group hammer box thingy, I'd say it's actual name but I have no idea what it is. And some people may have registered "Lightning links" a little strip of metal that can make a AR-15 fully automatic, And those I believe can be transfered between ARs without turning each one legally into a machine gun.

To my knowledge, you can replace all the parts on them when they wear out, provided you can legally modify the weapons (I.E. have the licenses to do so). So, essentially, you could "repair it" to the point it's a whole other gun, although you may get some frownie faces by some people.




[

Quote:

Quote:

Bitchin. cool

Indeed it is.

You still need to be a part of someone else's trust though, so, that takes being a part of a thousand man trust or something, which can be a problem. sweatdrop

Quote:

Quote:

Well, for the average person, the recoil may be a bit intense, so they would prefer a smaller more manoeuvrable and lighter recoil SMG. IMO it's not that big of a deal, I love guns so it's no issue for me, and the first time I ever shot a 12 gauge I handled the recoil so well to this day my dad swearsesz he thought I shot it from the hip, so it's less of a problem. But, I prefer heavier weapons anyways, like a .45 or .308; to the average person, a 9mm or 5.56mm tends to be more trendier, so I figure, it would help them more, and a wider range of users could have as nearly an effective weapon. xp

I'm the same as you, Give me something with some kick to it, and recoil often handles differently based on the gun. My polymer furniture Mossberg handles buck better than my Heavy, Wood furniture Remington 1100 handles birdshot, so it could help for people to look around for what suits them and what they can handle. In no way am I suggesting a 110 pound person picks up a S&W500 for defense, I'm just saying what I prefer. And IMO, when it comes time to use the gun in home defense, The adrenaline should help with not feeling and handling the recoil.

Not as much of an issue for me, but the 5.56mm and 9mm are popular, even in the military, I imagine largely due to it's ease of use by the average person. Regardless, a machinegun 12 guage would be cool, too. ninja

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Fun fact, 7.62×39 and 5.45×39 is technically pistol ammo now thanks to a handful of asshats and the ATF deeming it " Armor piercing handgun ammunition

WAIT WUT?! HOAWWW>??~!!!!

Some moron/Jackass in Tennessee built a pistol variant of a 74 for a "Production prototype" for the sole purpose of getting teh ammo banned last yesr and that "reclassified" the ammunition as pistol ammunition, Making it illegal to import Soviet surplus due to the mild steel core. New production can be imported, But no cheap surplus, and some people in the industry were talking about making a 47 pistol a while back, And the talk of it got it banned, So since they already SNAFU'd the ammo supply they went ahead and started making em.

According to him, after his charges are dismissed(Made illegal suppressors or something, Don't recall) he is going to make a pistol in 7.62×54r to get that banned too.

Herm... I thought it was just the Russian import ban? Idk.

Quote:

Quote:

Necessity? It's not about what's necessary, it's about what's good. Being more accurate means less misses, which means less civilian casualties. Higher accuracy is a good thing. Semi autos may have less power and demand more bullets than their counter parts, but they tend to hit where you want them to more often, which is a good thing. That's what I want, to not miss as often.

The drop in power between semi autos and manual actions is insignificant, maybe 15-30 FPS maximum.

Well, it's easier to use, is the thing. It's not really about velocity so much as it is about ergonomics; your first few rounds with any gun will miss, but with a semi auto you have more chances to correct, and thus ultimately you end up with a higher hit ratio than revolvers, where hesitation and slow correction times due to the lower round count often leads to worse results. So, if you're super comfortable with a revolver and really good with it, it may be less of an issue, but if you're a normal person and 6 rounds doesn't feel like quite enough, it's harder to use.

I suppose is my point. Of what happened more or less. xp

I believe the adjustment on a revolver comes from more recoil and muzzle flip, And less from a attempt to conserve ammunition, Whereas a properly held auto almost comes straight back, My 9mm barely kicks up when I'm magdumping biggrin and same with my .45, I do however as mentioned above have guns in the same cal that just don't handle the recoil as well.
Well, recoil can be an issue ,but usually revolvers have less recoil than semis, without a reciprocating bolt, unless you're firing a larger cartridge, such as .357; .38's are also common though, and their recoil is near negligible. xp

You'd probably get more than frowny faces from people. Possibly some prison time.

You can make your own trust, It's a matter of filing out the paperwork, yay because everyone loves more paperwork, but if you were going to leave your SBR at home for your HD gun your wife/Child/Roommate would have to be in the trust to be able to legally touch the weapon. Even if you go to the range, Etc etc. So, while it would still be legal for someone to buy a MG and put everyone they've ever known into the trust it's a better idea to just have a personal trust setup where your close friends and family can use the NFA items, Unless you're just being generous so that more people have access to a MG.

The ammo ban came through around the same time as the sanctions on Russian imports, If I remember correctly.

I can't speak for smaller revolver cartridges recoil wise seeing as I jumped from a .22 revolver to a .45LC .44 Mag and 500 SW, but the only auto guns that have had worse recoil than a revolver for me have been poly framed and "pot metal" guns.

Suicidesoldier#1

Turgid Rhetoric

I'd rather just stick to ARs and 12 gauges. Easier to carry--for a woman anyways--and the rounds much cheaper. Dependable, too. M240s irritate me, and 50 cals, navy mounted ones, are equivalent to s**t. Additionally, four-dollars per round, HA! Not in this universe. And that's mostly at a minimum.

While that's the *technical* definition of a machine gun, the legal definition bans any fully automatic weapon, or weapon, that fires in burst.

Technically, a machine gun is a weapon that fires "more than one round per trigger pull" so legally, a double barreled shotgun that fires both barrels at once is a illegal shotgun.
And adding a vertical fore grip to a pistol makes it into a rifle, from a legal standpoint, which makes it a SBR.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

Santo Mierda

Suicidesoldier#1

Santo Mierda

Quote:

Well, it's just the lower receiver that's the gun, right? I *think* you can replace all the pieces and completely rebuild the gun, but you'd have to actually physically have the ability to replace all the pieces, which basically means, having all your own equipment. Hypothetically, an Uzi could be turned into an M16 and vice versa, since it's all about the tax stamp, but doing that is the hard part, especially when you only intend on making one, for that specific gun.

I'm no lawyer but I think that would be highly illegal. The second you start cutting on the lower to modify it into a different gun, at least on a machine gun you have officially destroyed the machine gun and are now guilty of producing a post 86 MG. And you are correct. The lower is the firearm, At least with a AR-15 and it's military offshoots, So you can go out and buy a bushmaster at Walmart, Bring it home, Gut your 86 MG, Including the auto sear switch, and replace everything with the bushmaster's "guts" and legally, So long as it's in that lower it is legally a MG, but if you drop everything from the M16 into the bushy lower for the selector, You just made a MG. You can also change out the upper on certain guns, For example you can put an AR-57 upper on a M16 and it will still legally be the MG.

Some guns use different types of frames and such, For example I can think of one pistol, a Sig I believe, where the legal firearm is a fire control group hammer box thingy, I'd say it's actual name but I have no idea what it is. And some people may have registered "Lightning links" a little strip of metal that can make a AR-15 fully automatic, And those I believe can be transfered between ARs without turning each one legally into a machine gun.

To my knowledge, you can replace all the parts on them when they wear out, provided you can legally modify the weapons (I.E. have the licenses to do so). So, essentially, you could "repair it" to the point it's a whole other gun, although you may get some frownie faces by some people.




[

Quote:

Quote:

Bitchin. cool

Indeed it is.

You still need to be a part of someone else's trust though, so, that takes being a part of a thousand man trust or something, which can be a problem. sweatdrop

Quote:

Quote:

Well, for the average person, the recoil may be a bit intense, so they would prefer a smaller more manoeuvrable and lighter recoil SMG. IMO it's not that big of a deal, I love guns so it's no issue for me, and the first time I ever shot a 12 gauge I handled the recoil so well to this day my dad swearsesz he thought I shot it from the hip, so it's less of a problem. But, I prefer heavier weapons anyways, like a .45 or .308; to the average person, a 9mm or 5.56mm tends to be more trendier, so I figure, it would help them more, and a wider range of users could have as nearly an effective weapon. xp

I'm the same as you, Give me something with some kick to it, and recoil often handles differently based on the gun. My polymer furniture Mossberg handles buck better than my Heavy, Wood furniture Remington 1100 handles birdshot, so it could help for people to look around for what suits them and what they can handle. In no way am I suggesting a 110 pound person picks up a S&W500 for defense, I'm just saying what I prefer. And IMO, when it comes time to use the gun in home defense, The adrenaline should help with not feeling and handling the recoil.

Not as much of an issue for me, but the 5.56mm and 9mm are popular, even in the military, I imagine largely due to it's ease of use by the average person. Regardless, a machinegun 12 guage would be cool, too. ninja

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Fun fact, 7.62×39 and 5.45×39 is technically pistol ammo now thanks to a handful of asshats and the ATF deeming it " Armor piercing handgun ammunition

WAIT WUT?! HOAWWW>??~!!!!

Some moron/Jackass in Tennessee built a pistol variant of a 74 for a "Production prototype" for the sole purpose of getting teh ammo banned last yesr and that "reclassified" the ammunition as pistol ammunition, Making it illegal to import Soviet surplus due to the mild steel core. New production can be imported, But no cheap surplus, and some people in the industry were talking about making a 47 pistol a while back, And the talk of it got it banned, So since they already SNAFU'd the ammo supply they went ahead and started making em.

According to him, after his charges are dismissed(Made illegal suppressors or something, Don't recall) he is going to make a pistol in 7.62×54r to get that banned too.

Herm... I thought it was just the Russian import ban? Idk.

Quote:

Quote:

Necessity? It's not about what's necessary, it's about what's good. Being more accurate means less misses, which means less civilian casualties. Higher accuracy is a good thing. Semi autos may have less power and demand more bullets than their counter parts, but they tend to hit where you want them to more often, which is a good thing. That's what I want, to not miss as often.

The drop in power between semi autos and manual actions is insignificant, maybe 15-30 FPS maximum.

Well, it's easier to use, is the thing. It's not really about velocity so much as it is about ergonomics; your first few rounds with any gun will miss, but with a semi auto you have more chances to correct, and thus ultimately you end up with a higher hit ratio than revolvers, where hesitation and slow correction times due to the lower round count often leads to worse results. So, if you're super comfortable with a revolver and really good with it, it may be less of an issue, but if you're a normal person and 6 rounds doesn't feel like quite enough, it's harder to use.

I suppose is my point. Of what happened more or less. xp

I believe the adjustment on a revolver comes from more recoil and muzzle flip, And less from a attempt to conserve ammunition, Whereas a properly held auto almost comes straight back, My 9mm barely kicks up when I'm magdumping biggrin and same with my .45, I do however as mentioned above have guns in the same cal that just don't handle the recoil as well.

Well, recoil can be an issue ,but usually revolvers have less recoil than semis, without a reciprocating bolt, unless you're firing a larger cartridge, such as .357; .38's are also common though, and their recoil is near negligible. xp

You'd probably get more than frowny faces from people. Possibly some prison time.

You can make your own trust, It's a matter of filing out the paperwork, yay because everyone loves more paperwork, but if you were going to leave your SBR at home for your HD gun your wife/Child/Roommate would have to be in the trust to be able to legally touch the weapon. Even if you go to the range, Etc etc. So, while it would still be legal for someone to buy a MG and put everyone they've ever known into the trust it's a better idea to just have a personal trust setup where your close friends and family can use the NFA items, Unless you're just being generous so that more people have access to a MG.

The ammo ban came through around the same time as the sanctions on Russian imports, If I remember correctly.

I can't speak for smaller revolver cartridges recoil wise seeing as I jumped from a .22 revolver to a .45LC .44 Mag and 500 SW, but the only auto guns that have had worse recoil than a revolver for me have been poly framed and "pot metal" guns.

Suicidesoldier#1

Turgid Rhetoric

I'd rather just stick to ARs and 12 gauges. Easier to carry--for a woman anyways--and the rounds much cheaper. Dependable, too. M240s irritate me, and 50 cals, navy mounted ones, are equivalent to s**t. Additionally, four-dollars per round, HA! Not in this universe. And that's mostly at a minimum.

While that's the *technical* definition of a machine gun, the legal definition bans any fully automatic weapon, or weapon, that fires in burst.

Technically, a machine gun is a weapon that fires "more than one round per trigger pull" so legally, a double barreled shotgun that fires both barrels at once is a illegal shotgun.
And adding a vertical fore grip to a pistol makes it into a rifle, from a legal standpoint, which makes it a SBR.

The thing about the trust is, you can't really buy machine guns for cheaps. cry

Although, a double barrel shotgun has two triggers I believe, and I think it's per trigger pull. Which begs the question, could two triggers allow for burst fire with normal weapons (two really close triggers), or could some type of electric device which shakes the gun around count as not a machine gun? Idk, but it would be neat. xp

[Santo Mierda]

Suicidesoldier#1

The thing about the trust is, you can't really buy machine guns for cheaps. cry

Although, a double barrel shotgun has two triggers I believe, and I think it's per trigger pull. Which begs the question, could two triggers allow for burst fire with normal weapons (two really close triggers), or could some type of electric device which shakes the gun around count as not a machine gun? Idk, but it would be neat. xp

I've seen models of shotguns that have 2 triggers generally one behind the other, and models that require 2 trigger pulls. It may be possible to rig up a gun with 2 barrels, Such as the DP 12 shotgun but have it 2 triggers so both barrels can fire at once, Simulating burst fire. Unfortunately it will increase weight to the point of being unwieldy.

A electric trigger may be possible, But I think it wouldn't rattle the gun around, it would be better to make the electric trigger "store" each pull until another button is pressed discharging the "stored" shots. In the meantime, We have Slidefire/Bumpfire.

[Assassin Nero]

Simple fact:Countries with strict gun laws have a lesser crime rate that countries that do not.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

Assassin Nero

Simple fact:Countries with strict gun laws have a lesser crime rate that countries that do not.

Show proof brah

[Salem Jones]

I'm not going to read it, terrible idea.
Japan is one of the safest countries in the world, and has some restrictive gun laws

[Suicidesoldier#1]

Salem Jones

I'm not going to read it, terrible idea.
Japan is one of the safest countries in the world, and has some restrictive gun laws

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't legalize machine guns, or that their low homicide rate is a result of their gun laws, or that legalizing machine guns would necessarily increase it in the U.S. xp

Japan notoriously keeps their numbers low due to fears of public perception, via methods of collecting the data, so it's difficult to really ascertain how effective their legislation or police really are. In addition to their general xenophobia, and restriction of information leaving the country, due to fears of international perception, as well.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

Pinguicula

lol last year at a gypsy fairground i got to shoot a machine gun pellet gun, it was a stall where you have to shoot the whole shape of a star out of a hanging picture it was like 2 seconds and all the 200 or so shots were already fired it was crazy so i can imagine that with a real machine gun it must be exhilarating to say the least. im hoping my fish tank is enough to deter anyone from breaking into my house, ive got a tropical thing going on with a few piranhas in there and i swear if anyone harms me or my family ill shove their face right in that tank! i get scared going out on my morning walks though sometimes because mace is illegal here and so are tazers london can be a scary place.

Can you get bear mace? Quixotically that is often legal; also it's sad when they ban guns, and then ban body armor and less-lethal alternatives too. emo

[Hoshi-Otome]

Suicidesoldier#1

Pinguicula

lol last year at a gypsy fairground i got to shoot a machine gun pellet gun, it was a stall where you have to shoot the whole shape of a star out of a hanging picture it was like 2 seconds and all the 200 or so shots were already fired it was crazy so i can imagine that with a real machine gun it must be exhilarating to say the least. im hoping my fish tank is enough to deter anyone from breaking into my house, ive got a tropical thing going on with a few piranhas in there and i swear if anyone harms me or my family ill shove their face right in that tank! i get scared going out on my morning walks though sometimes because mace is illegal here and so are tazers london can be a scary place.

Can you get bear mace? Quixotically that is often legal; also it's sad when they ban guns, and then ban body armor and less-lethal alternatives too. emo

bear mace i think is illegal here but they sell pepper spray and some form of dye that they cant wash off but im not sure how spraying dye on someone is supposed to stop them from attacking you lol