Hamas receives international aid promises

[Patton]

State Secretary Kerry pledges more U.S. aid to rebuild Gaza

The international community has yet again pledged to help Hamas funnel its resources into the only thing that matters: Hamas' genocidal war on Israel. To ensure that the terrorist organization would not have to budget for insignificant things like infrastructure, United States Secretary of State John Kerry has pledged $212 million in American taxpayer money to help "Palestine"... about $75 million of which would go to Gaza, allowing them to focus on its humanitarian 'rockets into other countries' program. This falls far short of the $4 billion the Palestinian Authority claims they need.

In the years since the Palestinian people voted Hamas into power in Gaza, the terrorist group has worked diligently to fulfill its promise to voters...the obliteration of Israel. Every dollar contributed to Gaza is a dollar saved for just such a purpose. The international community hopes you remember that when it comes time to pass the hat for donations. Secretary of State Kerry, I am sure, would appreciate your compassion.

[The20]

A single tunnel costs them 3 million? What's that for? Diamond encrusted shovels? I mean, the poor sobs who dig that thing can't be paid that well ...

[DarkSohisohi]

The20

A single tunnel costs them 3 million? What's that for? Diamond encrusted shovels? I mean, the poor sobs who dig that thing can't be paid that well ...

Agreed.

Patton

Any ****** can make a pretty looking graphic in Gimp/Photoshop/Paint. . . I'd like to see the breakdown and allocation of this tunnels value.

[Mei tsuki7]

Because this isn't biased at all.../sarcasm

[Suicidesoldier#1]

Well, as long as it's Gaza and Palestine, and in the form of say, food and water, it should be alright.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

The20

A single tunnel costs them 3 million? What's that for? Diamond encrusted shovels? I mean, the poor sobs who dig that thing can't be paid that well ...

Well, to build a large tunnel quickly through solid rock and not have it collapse on itself is a bit more expensive than you might think. You not only have to have some special machinery and replace your drilling equipment quite frequently the drill bits and such dull, pump in oil to keep it cool and from heating up due to the friction and all that, and then pump in air and pump out the toxic gases produced as a by product and all the natural gas underground, having seismic checkers to look for stable areas, bringing in experts to analyze the area and make sure it would be okay to dig in the area without having a cave in, building the whole thing on what you know is a solid foundation, build a structure inside the tunnel capable of supporting not only the weight of the rock and dirt above you as well as vehicles, but do it all quietly and stealthily without being noticed. The dummy companies and construction projects you'd have to create just to cover up the construction vehicles you're using in the area would be incredibly difficult; you'd have to have the respect of the Israeli government to work around those areas with that kind of equipment, you'd need something to actually build with, and lots more things.

They're building these tunnels to allow trucks and large vehicles to transport supplies through them, so, we're talking basically you need a foundation that's roughly equal to a road. Roads are 1-3 million dollars per mile in their own right, and 500,000 dollars even for crappy back roads, so they can get to be pretty expensive; underground roads could easily be more than that.

Then you got to think about, where does all the dirt and rock go? Holes are empty, but the dirt has to be displaced; you'd notice several thousands tons of rocks, a tunnels worth popping up somewhere, so you have to transport and get rid of the rock without anybody noticing, because building a tunnel is as much as the digging part as it is about removing the rock and dirt you just tore up. It's a fairly long and arduous process, you dig a little, come back in and scoop up all the rocks, and then bring it back out, then build a structure behind it to support what is essentially a hollow area in the rock now and the ground above you. To have construction equipment fit in there it has to be pretty big, and you'd need the ability to support dozens of people constantly building the support structure, shoveling out the rocks, as well as digging the tunnel. You'd need experts constantly assessing the area telling you where it was okay to dig. It would take a lot of coordinated effort, all in silence, all in secret.

[The20]

Oh wait, they're not talking about smuggling tunnels. Well, that explains that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_tunnel_warfare_in_the_Gaza_Strip

[Suicidesoldier#1]

The20

Oh wait, they're not talking about smuggling tunnels. Well, that explains that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_tunnel_warfare_in_the_Gaza_Strip

That being said, giving money to Palestine =/= to hamas, and there's no proof that the aid is going to Hamas specifically, let alone to help build tunnels.

[Keltoi Samurai]

Quote:

humanitarian 'rockets into other countries' program.

As pro-Israel as I am, I have to ask: Is Hamas's Humanitarian "Rockets into other Countries" program anything like the US's "Missiles for the Middle East" program?

Honestly, with the mess we're making over there in general, it's hardly surprising that we'd fund both sides of a war, giving Hamas the money they need to wage their attempted "them or us" genocide against Israel, while helping Israel fight back against the same war our aid helps make possible.

It fits with US interventionist strategies of "Play both sides of the war in the hopes that the winners remember how we helped them, and hope that they ignore how we helped the people trying to kill them" that frankly, has never really gone according to plan.

[Disc Horse Enthusiast]

Quote:

Hamas' genocidal war on Israel.

You're disgusting. The genocide is entirely in the hands of Israel, in their constant attempts to subjugate and slaughter the people of Palestine.

Like.

How the hell do you think that a few shitty little bottle rockets is a genocide attempt? (It's not. It's an act of self-determination; a statement of "We aren't going to go down quietly".)

It's Israel, with the billions of dollars worth of experimental American weapons and thousands of wealthy backers, which is performing a genocide here. Same deal as how Canada and the US were established, really; settler-colonialists starving and murdering the area's indigenous people to gain control of more land and resources. Stealing their water, bombing their cities, arresting their fishers, sabotaging their infrastructure, and playing the victim in front of the rest of the world.

A few Qassam rockets will never compare to what Israel has done to Palestine.

[The Ice Dervish]

emotion_facepalm

Yes, give the terrorist organization more money, that's smart.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

Kakubunretsu

Quote:

Hamas' genocidal war on Israel.

You're disgusting. The genocide is entirely in the hands of Israel, in their constant attempts to subjugate and slaughter the people of Palestine.

Like.

How the hell do you think that a few shitty little bottle rockets is a genocide attempt? (It's not. It's an act of self-determination; a statement of "We aren't going to go down quietly".)

It's Israel, with the billions of dollars worth of experimental American weapons and thousands of wealthy backers, which is performing a genocide here. Same deal as how Canada and the US were established, really; settler-colonialists starving and murdering the area's indigenous people to gain control of more land and resources. Stealing their water, bombing their cities, arresting their fishers, sabotaging their infrastructure, and playing the victim in front of the rest of the world.

A few Qassam rockets will never compare to what Israel has done to Palestine.

And how much exactly has Israel done to Palestine?

I mean they've only killed a few thousand Palestinians maximum, and most of those are not innocent people. Hamas deliberately targets civilians and uses human shields, while Israel focus on military targets.

[Disc Horse Enthusiast]

Suicidesoldier#1

Kakubunretsu

Quote:

Hamas' genocidal war on Israel.

You're disgusting. The genocide is entirely in the hands of Israel, in their constant attempts to subjugate and slaughter the people of Palestine.

Like.

How the hell do you think that a few shitty little bottle rockets is a genocide attempt? (It's not. It's an act of self-determination; a statement of "We aren't going to go down quietly".)

It's Israel, with the billions of dollars worth of experimental American weapons and thousands of wealthy backers, which is performing a genocide here. Same deal as how Canada and the US were established, really; settler-colonialists starving and murdering the area's indigenous people to gain control of more land and resources. Stealing their water, bombing their cities, arresting their fishers, sabotaging their infrastructure, and playing the victim in front of the rest of the world.

A few Qassam rockets will never compare to what Israel has done to Palestine.

And how much exactly has Israel done to Palestine?

I mean they've only killed a few thousand Palestinians maximum, and most of those are not innocent people. Hamas deliberately targets civilians and uses human shields, while Israel focus on military targets.

Well, let's start with the colonisation of Palestine in the first place. They had a pretty decent thing going on there until Zionism became a thing, and millions of settlers — backed by extremely racist rich Westerners — invaded the area, displacing its indigenous people. So, this is before the establishment of the state of Israel. Upon Israel being established, they essentially immediately went ahead and set up a regime which is considered by many to be comparable to Apartheid in South Africa; with separate legal rights for Jewish people, non-Jewish Israelis, and Palestinians, and vastly worse infrastructure being provided to Palestinians. It's only gotten worse since then, really; Israel has been cultivating a climate of absolutely ridiculous racism over the past sixty-five years, allowing many Israelis, and their (almost always first-world) international supporters to effectively regard Palestinians as subhuman (just take a look at the kind of rhetoric you see from people who are discussing the issue in general; especially "liberals" and right-wingers).
As far as specifically recent stuff goes — and the reason that Hamas is firing rockets into Israel — it's quite simple, really. For the past decade or so, the Israel "Defense" Force (colonialism and genocide is never defensive) has put Gaza, an urban area with roughly two million people, under a brutal siege; destroying its airports, bombing its power plants, gunning down or air-striking its citizens whenever given an "excuse", and trying to absolutely strangle its local economy. Oh, and also arresting anyone who tries to provide aid to Gaza, because apparently letting innocent civilians die just because they're inconvenient is acceptable?
Also — apartheid and genocide isn't "focussing on military targets". If they only cared about military targets, there'd be no concrete walls and no IDF terrorist campaigns like the one that happened this summer.

So yeah. Israel hasn't merely killed a few thousand civilians. They're brutalising, dehumanising, and oppressing millions. :v

[Suicidesoldier#1]

Kakubunretsu

Suicidesoldier#1

Kakubunretsu

Quote:

Hamas' genocidal war on Israel.

You're disgusting. The genocide is entirely in the hands of Israel, in their constant attempts to subjugate and slaughter the people of Palestine.

Like.

How the hell do you think that a few shitty little bottle rockets is a genocide attempt? (It's not. It's an act of self-determination; a statement of "We aren't going to go down quietly".)

It's Israel, with the billions of dollars worth of experimental American weapons and thousands of wealthy backers, which is performing a genocide here. Same deal as how Canada and the US were established, really; settler-colonialists starving and murdering the area's indigenous people to gain control of more land and resources. Stealing their water, bombing their cities, arresting their fishers, sabotaging their infrastructure, and playing the victim in front of the rest of the world.

A few Qassam rockets will never compare to what Israel has done to Palestine.

And how much exactly has Israel done to Palestine?

I mean they've only killed a few thousand Palestinians maximum, and most of those are not innocent people. Hamas deliberately targets civilians and uses human shields, while Israel focus on military targets.

Well, let's start with the colonisation of Palestine in the first place. They had a pretty decent thing going on there until Zionism became a thing, and millions of settlers — backed by extremely racist rich Westerners — invaded the area, displacing its indigenous people. So, this is before the establishment of the state of Israel. Upon Israel being established, they essentially immediately went ahead and set up a regime which is considered by many to be comparable to Apartheid in South Africa; with separate legal rights for Jewish people, non-Jewish Israelis, and Palestinians, and vastly worse infrastructure being provided to Palestinians. It's only gotten worse since then, really; Israel has been cultivating a climate of absolutely ridiculous racism over the past sixty-five years, allowing many Israelis, and their (almost always first-world) international supporters to effectively regard Palestinians as subhuman (just take a look at the kind of rhetoric you see from people who are discussing the issue in general; especially "liberals" and right-wingers).
As far as specifically recent stuff goes — and the reason that Hamas is firing rockets into Israel — it's quite simple, really. For the past decade or so, the Israel "Defense" Force (colonialism and genocide is never defensive) has put Gaza, an urban area with roughly two million people, under a brutal siege; destroying its airports, bombing its power plants, gunning down or air-striking its citizens whenever given an "excuse", and trying to absolutely strangle its local economy. Oh, and also arresting anyone who tries to provide aid to Gaza, because apparently letting innocent civilians die just because they're inconvenient is acceptable?
Also — apartheid and genocide isn't "focussing on military targets". If they only cared about military targets, there'd be no concrete walls and no IDF terrorist campaigns like the one that happened this summer.

So yeah. Israel hasn't merely killed a few thousand civilians. They're brutalising, dehumanising, and oppressing millions. :v

That was the UK, and when has Israel done any of that, or on what scale? There may be people in Israel who are bad, but that doesn't condemn all of Israel.

How many civilians have they actually killed? How many Palestinians total? I suppose sources are important to consider.

[The Herald of Death]

Suicidesoldier#1

Kakubunretsu

Quote:

Hamas' genocidal war on Israel.

You're disgusting. The genocide is entirely in the hands of Israel, in their constant attempts to subjugate and slaughter the people of Palestine.

Like.

How the hell do you think that a few shitty little bottle rockets is a genocide attempt? (It's not. It's an act of self-determination; a statement of "We aren't going to go down quietly".)

It's Israel, with the billions of dollars worth of experimental American weapons and thousands of wealthy backers, which is performing a genocide here. Same deal as how Canada and the US were established, really; settler-colonialists starving and murdering the area's indigenous people to gain control of more land and resources. Stealing their water, bombing their cities, arresting their fishers, sabotaging their infrastructure, and playing the victim in front of the rest of the world.

A few Qassam rockets will never compare to what Israel has done to Palestine.

And how much exactly has Israel done to Palestine?

I mean they've only killed a few thousand Palestinians maximum, and most of those are not innocent people. Hamas deliberately targets civilians and uses human shields, while Israel focus on military targets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield#Israel

Not that some on the Palestinian side don't have the same issue, but if you check the 2014 bit...: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield#Palestinians