Do you agree about artificial insemination?

[Ratttking]

from blue to

Ratttking

No, I think it is disgusting, especially when done anonymously. Children should have the right to know their father and their mother. I also think that people who cannot conceive naturally should not breed at all, as they are obviously defective.

What gives children that right?
I had another question, but it just got lost to a brain freeze...ow.

The Convention on the Rights of the Child, article 7:



1. The child shall be registered immediately after birth and shall have the right from birth to a name, the right to acquire a nationality and. as far as possible, the right to know and be cared for by his or her parents.

http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/crc.aspx

[Ratttking]

Mars the Limbstealer

Ratttking

No, I think it is disgusting, especially when done anonymously. Children should have the right to know their father and their mother. I also think that people who cannot conceive naturally should not breed at all, as they are obviously defective.

this reply went from 100% agreeable and reasonable to completely ******** backwards so fast i think you deserve some kind of award

Your views in support of dysgenics are noted.

[ratgirl34]

Ratttking

from blue to

Ratttking

No, I think it is disgusting, especially when done anonymously. Children should have the right to know their father and their mother. I also think that people who cannot conceive naturally should not breed at all, as they are obviously defective.

What gives children that right?
I had another question, but it just got lost to a brain freeze...ow.

The Convention on the Rights of the Child, article 7:



1. The child shall be registered immediately after birth and shall have the right from birth to a name, the right to acquire a nationality and. as far as possible, the right to know and be cared for by his or her parents.

http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/crc.aspx

Which is not possible in a closed adoption or anonymous artificial insemination.

I suppose this means you're against abortion too? Or would I be making an a** out of u and me?

[Ratttking]

ratgirl34

Ratttking

from blue to

Ratttking

No, I think it is disgusting, especially when done anonymously. Children should have the right to know their father and their mother. I also think that people who cannot conceive naturally should not breed at all, as they are obviously defective.

What gives children that right?
I had another question, but it just got lost to a brain freeze...ow.

The Convention on the Rights of the Child, article 7:



1. The child shall be registered immediately after birth and shall have the right from birth to a name, the right to acquire a nationality and. as far as possible, the right to know and be cared for by his or her parents.

http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/crc.aspx

Which is not possible in a closed adoption or anonymous artificial insemination.

I suppose this means you're against abortion too? Or would I be making an a** out of u and me?

I do not approve of either, although I do support open adoptions, but I am pro-abortion. Let your wee little brain wrap itself around that for a while.

[ratgirl34]

Ratttking

ratgirl34

Ratttking

from blue to

Ratttking

No, I think it is disgusting, especially when done anonymously. Children should have the right to know their father and their mother. I also think that people who cannot conceive naturally should not breed at all, as they are obviously defective.

What gives children that right?
I had another question, but it just got lost to a brain freeze...ow.

The Convention on the Rights of the Child, article 7:



1. The child shall be registered immediately after birth and shall have the right from birth to a name, the right to acquire a nationality and. as far as possible, the right to know and be cared for by his or her parents.

http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/crc.aspx

Which is not possible in a closed adoption or anonymous artificial insemination.

I suppose this means you're against abortion too? Or would I be making an a** out of u and me?

I do not approve of either, although I do support open adoptions, but I am pro-abortion. Let your wee little brain wrap itself around that for a while.

I disagree with your stance and your reason for it regarding adoption and artificial insemination. However without more knowledge on the laws and legal standards towards the subject matter I'm not going further on that.

On abortion, a fetus is not a child, and so it doesn't fall privy to you're reason for being against closed adoption/insemination. Without further explanation that's all I got.

[Ratttking]

ratgirl34

Ratttking

ratgirl34

Ratttking

from blue to

Ratttking

No, I think it is disgusting, especially when done anonymously. Children should have the right to know their father and their mother. I also think that people who cannot conceive naturally should not breed at all, as they are obviously defective.

What gives children that right?
I had another question, but it just got lost to a brain freeze...ow.

The Convention on the Rights of the Child, article 7:



1. The child shall be registered immediately after birth and shall have the right from birth to a name, the right to acquire a nationality and. as far as possible, the right to know and be cared for by his or her parents.

http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/crc.aspx

Which is not possible in a closed adoption or anonymous artificial insemination.

I suppose this means you're against abortion too? Or would I be making an a** out of u and me?

I do not approve of either, although I do support open adoptions, but I am pro-abortion. Let your wee little brain wrap itself around that for a while.

I disagree with your stance and your reason for it regarding adoption and artificial insemination. However without more knowledge on the laws and legal standards towards the subject matter I'm not going further on that.

On abortion, a fetus is not a child, and so it doesn't fall privy to you're reason for being against closed adoption/insemination. Without further explanation that's all I got.

Your absence of reasoning and ignorance are noted.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. I never said a fetus was a child. Do you even know what pro-abortion means?

[Nonesuch Solo]

Ratttking

Nonesuch Solo

Ratttking

No, I think it is disgusting, especially when done anonymously. Children should have the right to know their father and their mother. I also think that people who cannot conceive naturally should not breed at all, as they are obviously defective.

How do you feel about closed adoptions?

I oppose them. My view may be subjective as my own adoption records are still sealed because of stupid PA laws.

I've never been really motivated to find my own birth parents. It just didn't seem like a big deal to me. With the exception of finding out my family's medical history, I have had almost no interest whatsoever. They ask me things at the doctor's like "Any family history of heart disease/cancer/whatever" and I'm like "No clue, sorry." That's the only time it's even come up.

Just weird to think that kids should have the "right" to know biological parents whose only roles were conception and gestation.

[Ratttking]

Nonesuch Solo

Ratttking

Nonesuch Solo

Ratttking

No, I think it is disgusting, especially when done anonymously. Children should have the right to know their father and their mother. I also think that people who cannot conceive naturally should not breed at all, as they are obviously defective.

How do you feel about closed adoptions?

I oppose them. My view may be subjective as my own adoption records are still sealed because of stupid PA laws.

I've never been really motivated to find my own birth parents. It just didn't seem like a big deal to me. With the exception of finding out my family's medical history, I have had almost no interest whatsoever. They ask me things at the doctor's like "Any family history of heart disease/cancer/whatever" and I'm like "No clue, sorry." That's the only time it's even come up.

Just weird to think that kids should have the "right" to know biological parents whose only roles were conception and gestation.

I don't get to know any of that which could prove detrimental to my health, or who my other blood relatives are so I don't end up ******** them. I think both of those are rather important.

[Catastrophic Lullaby]

NaamiiChaan

i need your opinion about this for my debate tom. lol

Do I agree about what regarding artificial insemination?

[I AM R U]

By 'agree', I assume you mean do we support the use of artificial insemination... In which case, no, I do not.

Frankly, I think there are more than enough children and there is not need to bring more into this world. If a couple are that desperate for a child, they can adopt. If not having your own, biological child is so traumatic, then leave the partner unable to have children and seek someone able to reproduce with you - if you're the one incapable, perhaps consider whether or not you should actually have children, given your inability to love a child not biologically related to you...

Essentially, my point is that it is a unnecessary and selfish practice - adopt, or don't have them. If you are incapable of loving a child not biologically yours, please, never ever reproduce.

[I AM R U]

Ratttking

Nonesuch Solo

Ratttking

Nonesuch Solo

Ratttking

No, I think it is disgusting, especially when done anonymously. Children should have the right to know their father and their mother. I also think that people who cannot conceive naturally should not breed at all, as they are obviously defective.

How do you feel about closed adoptions?

I oppose them. My view may be subjective as my own adoption records are still sealed because of stupid PA laws.

I've never been really motivated to find my own birth parents. It just didn't seem like a big deal to me. With the exception of finding out my family's medical history, I have had almost no interest whatsoever. They ask me things at the doctor's like "Any family history of heart disease/cancer/whatever" and I'm like "No clue, sorry." That's the only time it's even come up.

Just weird to think that kids should have the "right" to know biological parents whose only roles were conception and gestation.

I don't get to know any of that which could prove detrimental to my health, or who my other blood relatives are so I don't end up ******** them. I think both of those are rather important.

I agree - offspring should, at the very least, be aware of who their biological parents/relatives are, at the very least for healthcare reasons. If it is for a child's safety that they be removed from a relative, that's all well and good, but it certainly doesn't mean they cannot at least know who their parent is, and make a decision as an adult whether to have contact with them or not. If you don't want to have any connection with a child, then do not reproduce. Full stop. Same applies to donor sperm, or any other method of conceiving. I understand that rape, particularly incestuous rape, is highly traumatic, and the mother may not wish to keep the child, but then abort. Otherwise, the offspring should still have a right to know who their parents are. (Controversial, I'm sure, but child's rights trump adults - its not the child's fault, and they should effectively be 'punished' for it.)

[Rhianna]

I think if you're using only your genetic materials than fine. I have an issue when we get into using donor materials.

I admit that I'm also horrendously biased. I was adopted in the era when all adoptions were closed. "Open Adoptions" didn't exist. I wasn't allowed to contact anyone in my biological family for 18 years, even aunts and uncles who never did anything wrong simply by association of being relatives of my parents. It was terrible and today closed adoptions are increasingly being considered outdated, cruel and only to be used in the most horrendous and extreme of cases (such as serious child abuse).

Adoptees of my generation and before are lobbying hard all over the world for increased openness, such as the opening of sealed records. Many adoptees in the US can't even access their own birth certificate. They are issued an amended certificate which removes their biological parents and replaces them with their adoptive parents, their new post-adoption name and so forth. Adoptees are the only people in the country who do not have the right to view their own birth certificate.

So for these reason it seems sad and counterproductive to me to basically purposely create this situation through IVF which almost inevitably leads to "Snowflake Adoptions" (of unused fertilized embryos which go on to be used/gestated by someone else) and often children who don't know who their parents ("donors" wink are and have little to no hope of finding out because of clinic confidentiality and anonymity laws.

One step forward for adoptee rights, ten steps back..... stressed

I understand the desire to have a child, I really do. But becoming a parent is supposed to mean that you become more selfless and put your child...even your potential child...first. That should include their rights and concerns for their future psychological health which tends to get completely tuned out in the adoption/IVF/donor process.

It's ironic. Adults desires to have genetic link to their child is respected and viewed as normal, natural and healthy and all these multi-million dollar clinics and procedures invented and available to facilitate that. Yet the child's desire to know and have a link to their parent ("donor" wink is completely disregarded and disrespected and there's no protection at all for it.

[erstwhile foe]

I AM R U

By 'agree', I assume you mean do we support the use of artificial insemination... In which case, no, I do not.

Frankly, I think there are more than enough children and there is not need to bring more into this world. If a couple are that desperate for a child, they can adopt. If not having your own, biological child is so traumatic, then leave the partner unable to have children and seek someone able to reproduce with you - if you're the one incapable, perhaps consider whether or not you should actually have children, given your inability to love a child not biologically related to you...

Essentially, my point is that it is a unnecessary and selfish practice - adopt, or don't have them. If you are incapable of loving a child not biologically yours, please, never ever reproduce.

Wait...
So a person has to make a choice between having a relationship with a sterile partner and having a biological child?

That's just silly.

Why on Earth is it selfish to want to have a biological child? Because you're forsaking the poor, forgotten orphans? Often, the issue isn't that they're unable to love an adopted child, but that a) the adoption process can be long and expensive; yes, I'd argue it can be just as arduous as artificial insemination, and b) the couple would simply prefer to have a biological child.

It doesn't make them soulless monsters not wanting to adopt, and it certainly doesn't make them selfish.

Now, there are issues of genetics (with regard to health, etc.) that will need to be smoothed out as we move forward and make anonymous artificial insemination more widely available, but for the most part, sealed adoptions have been fine, regardless of the lack of information about a child's parents.

[Rhianna]

erstwhile foe

but for the most part, sealed adoptions have been fine, regardless of the lack of information about a child's parents.

eek

No they haven't. There are numerous adoptee rights organizations and hundreds of adoptee bloggers who are widely protesting sealed adoptions and have been seriously psychologically damaged for their entire lives by being denied the basic human rights and knowledge that everyone else takes for granted.

You should spend some time on places like The Lost Daughters, Musings of the Lame, First Mother Forum and Land of Gazillion Voices and you'll pretty quickly see the pain that generations of sealed adoptions have brought to many people in a ripple effect.

[I AM R U]

erstwhile foe

I AM R U

By 'agree', I assume you mean do we support the use of artificial insemination... In which case, no, I do not.

Frankly, I think there are more than enough children and there is not need to bring more into this world. If a couple are that desperate for a child, they can adopt. If not having your own, biological child is so traumatic, then leave the partner unable to have children and seek someone able to reproduce with you - if you're the one incapable, perhaps consider whether or not you should actually have children, given your inability to love a child not biologically related to you...

Essentially, my point is that it is a unnecessary and selfish practice - adopt, or don't have them. If you are incapable of loving a child not biologically yours, please, never ever reproduce.

Wait...
So a person has to make a choice between having a relationship with a sterile partner and having a biological child?

That's just silly.

Why on Earth is it selfish to want to have a biological child? Because you're forsaking the poor, forgotten orphans? Often, the issue isn't that they're unable to love an adopted child, but that a) the adoption process can be long and expensive; yes, I'd argue it can be just as arduous as artificial insemination, and b) the couple would simply prefer to have a biological child.

The adoption process, in my opinion, needs to be made much easier to access, particularly for LBGT potential parents.

What reason is there to prefer a biological child? Aside from selfish reasons?

There is also the fact that our planet it wildly over populated - any desire to bring children into the world is, to some degree, a selfish one, at least in the context of the West. We don't need children to help the family work the farm. Its for the gratification/to fulfill the desires of the parent. Which is fine, and doesn't make people who choose not have children less selfish, but the fact remains that there is no need to have children in a modern, Western context - you want to have children. Which, again, is fine, but seriously? Why should you have right to have kids?

Quote:

It doesn't make them soulless monsters not wanting to adopt, and it certainly doesn't make them selfish.

It is selfish and it does raise serious questions, for me at least, as to said person's ability to be a good parent.

Quote:

Now, there are issues of genetics (with regard to health, etc.) that will need to be smoothed out as we move forward and make anonymous artificial insemination more widely available, but for the most part, sealed adoptions have been fine, regardless of the lack of information about a child's parents.

Why are they fine? What reason is there for them to be fine? There are serious reasons to know one's genetic family tree, and there is also the psychological trauma offspring can suffer from being denied any knowledge of their ancestry. If you don't want your offspring to know who you are, do not produce them.