Rape in my eyes is when the females says "vocally" or "openly" that she doesn't want it, either before or during the act of sex. Anything after should not be considered rape3nodding
Oooohkay.
No. No on so many levels.
"The Females" could be men, by the way. Rape is not exclusively a woman's problem.
Situations that are still rape even if the other party might not vocally say "no":
- coercion
- excessive alcohol use
- drug use
- minors
- they are asleep
- etc
Rape is not just "no" anymore. It's about the lack of reasonable consent.
well here is my counter arguement:
-coercion: obviously if she's been threaten or force she can still try fight it off as a sign she doesn't want it.
- excessive alcohol use: if both parties are drunk and they both agree to have sex and she regret its, its not rape at all. the guy was in the same state of mind she was at the time
- drug use: same as above
- minors: that's a crime with itself. even if she consent that's still sex with a minor which is not rape but another crime
- they are asleep: really? REALLY? are you telling me some chick would not wake up while the guy has sex with her? hahahaha ok then. if your arguement is she was drugged up to be asleep than that's different
Coercion: See, this right here is victim blaming. I'm going to guess that you didn't look at my other post, where I explained it further detail, so I'm just going to repeat myself:
Coercion often goes hand-in-hand with emotional abuse, as is seen often in cases of domestic rape. This means that the person does not want sex, but feels forced to "comply". They are no consenting from their own free will, they are possibly scared, as N3bu has stated. Not only scared for their lives, but afraid of losing their partner. This isn't a black-and-white topic, sorry. A little bit of empathy is also necessary when you think up hypothetical situations regarding how the victim could've/should've acted.
- How can you "agree" to anything, when you're excessively drunk? In any case, if both parties are incapable of making sound decisions, then it's a major gray-zone.
- minors: It's considered statutory rape. rape.
-There are people who try to engage in some sexual activity with sleeping people. Sleeping people cannot consent. It doesn't matter if they wake up or not during, that's basically irrelevant. I was trying to list situations where no consent is given.
Rape in my eyes is when the females says "vocally" or "openly" that she doesn't want it, either before or during the act of sex. Anything after should not be considered rape3nodding
Always nice when people don't think men can be raped.
Rape in my eyes is when the females says "vocally" or "openly" that she doesn't want it, either before or during the act of sex. Anything after should not be considered rape3nodding
Oooohkay.
No. No on so many levels.
"The Females" could be men, by the way. Rape is not exclusively a woman's problem.
Situations that are still rape even if the other party might not vocally say "no":
- coercion
- excessive alcohol use
- drug use
- minors
- they are asleep
- etc
Rape is not just "no" anymore. It's about the lack of reasonable consent.
well here is my counter arguement:
-coercion: obviously if she's been threaten or force she can still try fight it off as a sign she doesn't want it.
- excessive alcohol use: if both parties are drunk and they both agree to have sex and she regret its, its not rape at all. the guy was in the same state of mind she was at the time
- drug use: same as above
- minors: that's a crime with itself. even if she consent that's still sex with a minor which is not rape but another crime
- they are asleep: really? REALLY? are you telling me some chick would not wake up while the guy has sex with her? hahahaha ok then. if your arguement is she was drugged up to be asleep than that's different
Coercion: See, this right here is victim blaming. I'm going to guess that you didn't look at my other post, where I explained it further detail, so I'm just going to repeat myself:
Coercion often goes hand-in-hand with emotional abuse, as is seen often in cases of domestic rape. This means that the person does not want sex, but feels forced to "comply". They are no consenting from their own free will, they are possibly scared, as N3bu has stated. Not only scared for their lives, but afraid of losing their partner. This isn't a black-and-white topic, sorry. A little bit of empathy is also necessary when you think up hypothetical situations regarding how the victim could've/should've acted.
- How can you "agree" to anything, when you're excessively drunk? In any case, if both parties are incapable of making sound decisions, then it's a major gray-zone.
- minors: It's considered statutory rape. rape.
-There are people who try to engage in some sexual activity with sleeping people. Sleeping people cannot consent. It doesn't matter if they wake up or not during, that's basically irrelevant. I was trying to list situations where no consent is given.
really? is that so? if I was to use your logic regarding Coercion rape than that within itself is a loop hole, any female can use that argument as rape then, there is no defense for the male. I.E I've been married to this man for 5 years, I cheated on him and we have two kids, he emotional made me want to have sex with him when I didn't want to,therefore its rape neutral your logic is flawed.
Further more to the above point, if that was truly the case, then she would never report that as rape and take it to the grave. I mean at one point if she did declare it as rape that would mean she broke out of the cycle.....thus "openly" declaring she never wanted the sex. Which further supports the idea that she was in the right state of mind to fight off the male at any time (regardless if successful or not)) that she didn't consent to rape.
my point to Coercion? it is not a valid point to be used when considering that as a rape, it was merely an excuse that she felt regret 3nodding
so a husband/bf or lover is not allowed to be intimate with his lover in the mist of the night? I guess you support cheating then hey, I mean if she's asleep....I guess its ok for him to look around for another chick ^_^
the point is, there are moments when rape isn't consider rape but rather the person (male or female) just feels regret and is making claims to be the victim.
so a husband/bf or lover is not allowed to be intimate with his lover in the mist of the night? I guess you support cheating then hey, I mean if she's asleep....I guess its ok for him to look around for another chick ^_^
I don't know how, but you've managed to write one of the most ill-informed, vile things I've ever read on this site.
First off, a person has a right to refuse sex even within a relationship. Saying yes once doesn't give a free pass.
Second, seeking to engage in sexual activity with someone who is asleep, no matter the relationship with them, is depraved and lacking in consent. They are asleep, and totally incapable of giving consent or engaging in mutual sexual activity.
Thirdly, to then imply that to object to what is, essentially, rape, is endorsement of infidelity... Words fail me.
How entitled and sexist do you think some men are, that they should be allowed to rape a sleeping female just because at some other time, while awake, she consented to sexual activity?! And that, should she object, he should be allowed to seek gratification elsewhere?!?!
Rape in my eyes is when the females says "vocally" or "openly" that she doesn't want it, either before or during the act of sex. Anything after should not be considered rape3nodding
Oooohkay.
No. No on so many levels.
"The Females" could be men, by the way. Rape is not exclusively a woman's problem.
Situations that are still rape even if the other party might not vocally say "no":
- coercion
- excessive alcohol use
- drug use
- minors
- they are asleep
- etc
Rape is not just "no" anymore. It's about the lack of reasonable consent.
well here is my counter arguement:
-coercion: obviously if she's been threaten or force she can still try fight it off as a sign she doesn't want it.
- excessive alcohol use: if both parties are drunk and they both agree to have sex and she regret its, its not rape at all. the guy was in the same state of mind she was at the time
- drug use: same as above
- minors: that's a crime with itself. even if she consent that's still sex with a minor which is not rape but another crime
- they are asleep: really? REALLY? are you telling me some chick would not wake up while the guy has sex with her? hahahaha ok then. if your arguement is she was drugged up to be asleep than that's different
Coercion: See, this right here is victim blaming. I'm going to guess that you didn't look at my other post, where I explained it further detail, so I'm just going to repeat myself:
Coercion often goes hand-in-hand with emotional abuse, as is seen often in cases of domestic rape. This means that the person does not want sex, but feels forced to "comply". They are no consenting from their own free will, they are possibly scared, as N3bu has stated. Not only scared for their lives, but afraid of losing their partner. This isn't a black-and-white topic, sorry. A little bit of empathy is also necessary when you think up hypothetical situations regarding how the victim could've/should've acted.
- How can you "agree" to anything, when you're excessively drunk? In any case, if both parties are incapable of making sound decisions, then it's a major gray-zone.
- minors: It's considered statutory rape. rape.
-There are people who try to engage in some sexual activity with sleeping people. Sleeping people cannot consent. It doesn't matter if they wake up or not during, that's basically irrelevant. I was trying to list situations where no consent is given.
really? is that so? if I was to use your logic regarding Coercion rape than that within itself is a loop hole, any female can use that argument as rape then, there is no defense for the male. I.E I've been married to this man for 5 years, I cheated on him and we have two kids, he emotional made me want to have sex with him when I didn't want to,therefore its rape neutral your logic is flawed.
Further more to the above point, if that was truly the case, then she would never report that as rape and take it to the grave. I mean at one point if she did declare it as rape that would mean she broke out of the cycle.....thus "openly" declaring she never wanted the sex. Which further supports the idea that she was in the right state of mind to fight off the male at any time (regardless if successful or not)) that she didn't consent to rape.
my point to Coercion? it is not a valid point to be used when considering that as a rape, it was merely an excuse that she felt regret 3nodding
so a husband/bf or lover is not allowed to be intimate with his lover in the mist of the night? I guess you support cheating then hey, I mean if she's asleep....I guess its ok for him to look around for another chick ^_^
the point is, there are moments when rape isn't consider rape but rather the person (male or female) just feels regret and is making claims to be the victim.
nice chat though. God bless
.... What?
First of all, yes some people falsely accuse other of rape. It's a strawman argument, though. It's a damn shame that it occurs, compared to actual rape cases (especially unreported), it's statistically almost irrelevant. Get that out of your head.
I find it highly interesting that you included "She cheated on him" in your hypothetical example, as opposed to just saying "one party has lost interest in the other party, when does it become rape"? In my opinion, that says a lot about the way you're treating the topic.
My logic is not "flawed". You don't understand it. Spousal rape is a very serious, very real thing. To call it an "excuse" is disrespectful and unemphatic. We are not talking about a person who is married, eventually decides they don't dig their partner anymore, and cries "rape". (Honestly, how often do you think that even happens, with sane people?) We are talking about people who are dominated by their partners and psychologically forced to do things against their will. Your example had squat to do with coercion; you were nitpicking at my wording/examples. Might be helpful if you took a dictionary and just checked the word.
Coercion is the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of intimidation or threats or some other form of pressure or force, and describes a set of various different similar types of forceful actions that violate the free will of an individual to induce a desired response, usually having a strict choice or option against a person in such a way a victim can't escape, for example: a bully demanding lunch money to a student or the student gets beaten. These actions can include, but are not limited to, extortion, blackmail, torture, and threats to induce favors.
In rape, coercion is extremely common because the victim is very likely to know their attacker. The continuous insisting for sex by one partner in a relationship, despite the clear reluctance or disapproval of the other partner, is coercion. They are pressuring their partner, forcing them with the leverage they have through the relationship status. Possibly making threats of leaving said partner, if they don't comply.
And when in the world did I praise cheating in anything I said? I get the sneaking suspicion that you don't know jackshit about rape. It's not about a husband/boyfriend kissing their partner awake for love-making. It's not even primarily about sex, but rather dominance and humiliation.
And no, it was not a nice chat. It was irritating and made me second-guess humanity.
Thank you for putting into words what I have been too incoherent with rage to express.
I understand. Thank you for fighting along beside me. /brofist
Looking through some of the posts in this thread made me cringe in the worst ways, but people like you make me believe there is hope emotion_bigheart
Carry on~
Thank you for putting into words what I have been too incoherent with rage to express.
I understand. Thank you for fighting along beside me. /brofist
Looking through some of the posts in this thread made me cringe in the worst ways, but people like you make me believe there is hope emotion_bigheart
Carry on~
Rape for me is when the girl/boy doesn't want to do the act and the partner forces it on her/him. But of course genuine resistance is needed because usually some people just like to play around.
So my roommate showed me a study she found on facebook which claimed that half of all men said some form of rape was ok. While looking over this study, it struck me that by their definition of rape, I may be guilty of the same. They basically defined rape as pushing for sex when a girl is hesitant, and asked about specific situations where a girl might be hesitant. Where as I define rape as pushing for sex once a girl says "no" or "stop" (or if she's unable to consent), which I have never done.
There was only once when I pushed for sex when a girl was hesitant, and when I asked her (just now) she didn't see it as rape either. Just her having some reservations about taking the next big step in our relationship, a step she was glad we took together even though the relationship did not last.
So I'd like to know what you think. Should we define rape as simply pushing for sex, or should there have to be some form of resistance (verbal or otherwise) before we can define it as rape?
Believe it or not, I'd actually like to hear from some feminists on this too.
I can't find the study right now, I'll get the link from my roommate once she's out of the shower, so expect an update.
I agree with you're definition of rape as being, When a girl says "no/stop." If people are going to say that rape is when a girl is hesitant, then you get raped every day. When I go to Burger King and ask for a medium and the cashier points out that a large is 50 cents more....I become hesitant (and fat.) And then when I decline, they then say, "but you save one dollar, buy getting the larger size because it comes with cheese"....Was I just raped?
Rape is forcefully making someone do sexual acts or threatening them if they don't do what you tell them to do.
Rape is definitely NOT okay at all!
If you have been through it like I have then you would know that even joking about it isn't a cool thing to do at all!
For me, being raped changed my life forever, I had to grow up before I even knew the way it felt to be an innocent child.
It takes away your innocence and the pain never truly completely goes away, it tends to just stay in the back of your mind until something reminds you of it again.
If a man/woman forces themself onto another person without their consent, I consider that rape.
If a person intends to cause harm to another by using their genitalia or some form of penetration without the other persons consent I consider rape.
In your case though, If they are hesitant, it's bc because of 'not now' basically in which you should always listen to the other person.
If that person does not want sex & you force them- that is rape. If you are violent & it's against their consent then yeah you get the idea.
I'm a feminist, my brother is one, my sister- my entire family. We all believe in the equal treatment for opposite genders.
I would describe it in this way:
Someone commanding, forcing, coercing or otherwise another person who does not want to have sex into having sex. They can do this by:
Brute Strength (Being stronger than the victim)
Commanding (A parent or another adult with a child)
Coercion (Manipulation into a bad situation, such as being alone, or using things such as blackmail, threats, etc.)
It can also carry a lot of different fronts, like drugging someone in order to have sex with them, which I guess would fall under my Coercion category.
