Are animals and plants equal to humans?

[Suicidesoldier#1]

FlySammyJ

Suicidesoldier#1

I've lived in the wilderness it's... not that great.

This, essentially, is where we differ.

I'm an archaeologist. I've lived in the wild for weeks at a time. I've pooped in holes, bathed in ice-melt streams, and subsisted on only non-perishable and foraged food. Free time was for crafting, reading, exploring, and playing games. No cell phone service. No electricity. It ******** rocks. And I don't believe you've ever done it, city boy.

I actually lived most of my life in the sub-urbs but.

I mean I've got camping before, who hasn't? xp


You mean you'd want to live like that for years on end; never having a break?

Riddle me this, how would you have even gotten a basic education in archaeology if you were living in the forest like a nomad?


Did you have hand sanitzer, pots and pans, first aid kits?

None of that would exist if we spent 24/7 out in the woods, eventually someone has to get a normal job, make this stuff etc. How do you compensate for these goods, pay for them? If you don't produce more than is needed to survive you don't get growth as a society.


I hate cities though.

I'd rather live in a rural or sub-urban area but, with great technology and whatnot.

[FlySammyJ]

Suicidesoldier#1

I actually lived most of my life in the sub-urbs but.

I mean I've got camping before, who hasn't? xp

In a developed site? Tent or trailer? Glamping?

Suicidesoldier#1

You mean you'd want to live like that for years on end; never having a break?

People do. And they're statistically happier than I am.

Suicidesoldier#1

Riddle me this, how would you have even gotten a basic education in archaeology if you were living in the forest like a nomad?


Did you have hand sanitzer, pots and pans, first aid kits?

None of that would exist if we spent 24/7 out in the woods, eventually someone has to get a normal job, make this stuff etc.

See the edit I slipped in last post:
More importantly, no one is suggesting that an overhaul of the food system would require us to leave all of our technology behind us. We could live a nomadic lifestyle and still maintain libraries. People are pretty smart.

And hunter-gatherers make s**t all the time, you don't have to have a factory to make a cooking vessel. I don't use hand sanitizer because it breeds super-bacteria. I wash my hands in water, like people have always done. And during the archaeology season I've always had some Native American people with me, and this particular group happens to be very adept at herbalism and wild first aid.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

FlySammyJ

Suicidesoldier#1

I actually lived most of my life in the sub-urbs but.

I mean I've got camping before, who hasn't? xp

In a developed site? Tent or trailer? Glamping?

Suicidesoldier#1

You mean you'd want to live like that for years on end; never having a break?

People do. And they're statistically happier than I am.

Suicidesoldier#1

Riddle me this, how would you have even gotten a basic education in archaeology if you were living in the forest like a nomad?


Did you have hand sanitzer, pots and pans, first aid kits?

None of that would exist if we spent 24/7 out in the woods, eventually someone has to get a normal job, make this stuff etc.

See the edit I slipped in last post:
More importantly, no one is suggesting that an overhaul of the food system would require us to leave all of our technology behind us. We could live a nomadic lifestyle and still maintain libraries. People are pretty smart.

And hunter-gatherers make s**t all the time, you don't have to have a factory to make a cooking vessel. I don't use hand sanitizer because it breeds super-bacteria. I wash my hands in water, like people have always done. And during the archaeology season I've always had some Native American people with me, and this particular group happens to be very adept at herbalism and wild first aid.

If you have no-one to run the facility, provide energy, be provided the energy required to continue research etc. you don't have these things. With the internet you can gather information, say on herbology, instantaneously at the touch of a button. You can figure out which plants are edible, maybe even by taking a picture of it and google searching it.

I mean you can do all kinds of things. You can produce higher yields with better improved agricultural methods. You need someone to be in factories to produce these things in the first place.


Does 10% of society live in factories then, 20%? Who's there to make these things?

As far as statistically happier goes we can't actually poll people who live in the wilderness, since they don't have technology, and live in a normal society etc.


I've lived out in the woods with little before. No tents, very little supplies, not even a weapon, and the clothes where improperly suited really for the forest or the temperatures at all. The constant sap and whatnot coming out of the trees gave me constant allergies and there were mosquitoes and bugs everywhere.

For a few weeks. I've also been camping several times, once with tents, once with a trailer etc.


Point is having to fight to survive every day is no fun.

I can see wanting to do that for fun, I mean people go camping, but I'd rather have my needs taken care of rather than just be thrown out into the forest. xp


But this is the interwebsz though.

I can't tell people about myself. If I say too much I'll reveal too much about myself. ninja

[Adiopose]

Are we equal? Sure.
Are we entitled to do whatever the ******** we can with them? Sure.
If a bear wants to rip you apart it's not going to stop and think about equality.

[Je Nique vos Merdiers]

FlySammyJ

It ******** rocks. And I don't believe you've ever done it, city boy.

I don't believe a single thing that kid says.

[FlySammyJ]

Je Nique vos Merdiers

FlySammyJ

It ******** rocks. And I don't believe you've ever done it, city boy.

I don't believe a single thing that kid says.

I know, he's either trolling or to young to have a conversation without trying to "win." I keep telling myself I'm not going to talk to him anymore, but there are so few on the board these days who engage in debate at all that when I get bored and see ignorance I just get sucked in to trying to fix it.

[Michael Noire]

plants and animals are often our moral superiors,

but some humans are more awesome than plants and animals

some plants and animals are morally inferior, even to human social norms.

as a rule of thumb, a human being who lives up to the demands of their own race is superior to any plant or animal,

but plants an animals are more likely to live up to the demands of their own race than most humans.

[Je Nique vos Merdiers]

FlySammyJ

Je Nique vos Merdiers

FlySammyJ

It ******** rocks. And I don't believe you've ever done it, city boy.

I don't believe a single thing that kid says.

I know, he's either trolling or to young to have a conversation without trying to "win." I keep telling myself I'm not going to talk to him anymore, but there are so few on the board these days who engage in debate at all that when I get bored and see ignorance I just get sucked in to trying to fix it.

Yeah, he's on my ignore list now. I try to have intellectually stimulating conversation, but when I say "stimulation", I don't mean whacking my brain with an aluminum bat.

[Blood Valkyrie]

The answer to the question in your title is, "No."

[Kanami Akane]

i think no wink

[BuTerfLy_DiVaH]

tfwbtr

I think so. I don't get why people believe we're better. We destroy the world while animals and plants give it balance. We take while they give. We're either equal to them, or inferior.

Each living species on the planet plays an important role.

[Das Horse Face]

Needlessly killing animals or foraging plants, cutting down trees, etc etc isn't really beneficial to the planet.

Moderation is key.

Although I do not value an animal or plant at human level, I do however recognize the importance of both of their existence in the world.