spoilers for finale of season 8: moffat again

[Blueberry_GJ]

-_- when other people used to criticize moffat, i never really joined in because he really does have a lot of potential and writing genius in that head of his. sure, i didn't agree with some of his plot views but i guess i was biased because i enjoyed some of his episodes and his work in Sherlock, but last night's episode "Dark Water" screwed me completely over because of not just plot-holes but basic OOC-ness.

Out of character-ness in a character he created! Clara Oswald was completely unreasonable here. Yes, she lost Danny Pink, a character she's met roughly under a season ago, but does it really mean she has to threaten and betray the Doctor? The Doctor she's chosen to save and has been saving for so long? Maybe the parts don't equal the whole, but she sacrificed herself to save all the Doctors up to 11 - so why not 12? He's still the same soul even if everything else has changed. She didn't know she was going to be saved when she jumped in and split herself, but this overdramatic "These keys are hostages I will dump into the volcano here" was stupid.

it's said that love makes people do crazy things. but moffat himself made clara declare her feelings for 11 as platonic even when she did jump into what she believed to be her death in order to save 11. this kind of logical chain doesn't work at all.

She could have just asked 12 for help with Danny, if she really wanted to. 9 took Rose to see her dad before he died even though the consequences might've wrecked the entire universe, and 12 revealed that he didn't care if she'd betrayed him anyway. That kind of friendship bond isn't weak at all, so I don't understand how Moffat would just write her like that...

[Mutilated Moogle]

Because this season he has pretty much screwed Clara up in many a ways, this episode wasn't the first, the Clara that we all knew back with 11 is now gone, once 12 started she was written poorly.

[Kizu-Ato]

Blueberry_GJ

"These keys are hostages I will dump into the volcano here" was stupid. . .

Especially since River had shown the Doctor that the Tardis could be opened with a snap of his fingers. . . .

[Blueberry_GJ]

Kizu-Ato

Blueberry_GJ

"These keys are hostages I will dump into the volcano here" was stupid. . .

Especially since River had shown the Doctor that the Tardis could be opened with a snap of his fingers. . . .

Quite true. When the volcano appeared, I was sure that something about capaldi's being in Pompeii during that episode with the tenth and Donna would be revealed but it turned out to be utterly useless

[Blueberry_GJ]

Nafretiti

Because this season he has pretty much screwed Clara up in many a ways, this episode wasn't the first, the Clara that we all knew back with 11 is now gone, once 12 started she was written poorly.

I agree. People said that when she was with 11, she wasn't really written well but here I feel like her character has been contradicted over and over again throughout the season.

[CuteLittleKitty0911]

I honestly think it was just a way to get the Doctors attention. No she wasn't afraid to throw all of them into the volcano. But she was distraught by the fact that Pink died such a boring death.. That he deserved such a better death. And Clara would stop at nothing to get the Doctor to bring him back.

Look at how he's been this whole entire season. He's been pushing himself away from the humans this season. And I think she was just thinking about all the ways it seemed like he didn't care about if one single human died.. I mean she said. "Danny Pink is dead," his response was "And" proving to her that he could care less that the man she loved was gone..

So, how else do you make it perfectly clear to the Doctor that you're not fing around? Try and get rid of every single key to the TARDIS. So that she can't take no for an answer.

[RockyRatt]

It's Doctor Who. Plot holes and completely illogical characters are kind of its thing.

[Mutilated Moogle]

CuteLittleKitty0911

I honestly think it was just a way to get the Doctors attention. No she wasn't afraid to throw all of them into the volcano. But she was distraught by the fact that Pink died such a boring death.. That he deserved such a better death. And Clara would stop at nothing to get the Doctor to bring him back.

Look at how he's been this whole entire season. He's been pushing himself away from the humans this season. And I think she was just thinking about all the ways it seemed like he didn't care about if one single human died.. I mean she said. "Danny Pink is dead," his response was "And" proving to her that he could care less that the man she loved was gone..

So, how else do you make it perfectly clear to the Doctor that you're not fing around? Try and get rid of every single key to the TARDIS. So that she can't take no for an answer.

Or, ya know, ASKING him may be a simple thing to do?

The Doctor has proven time and time and time again that he is a friend to her, yes it takes a bit of talking him around BUT he WILL say yes WITHOUT the threats, she basically just betrayed him in EVERY way she could possibly do so but guess what? He still wanted to help the very cow that just betrayed him, why? Because she and the Doctor are friends, dear dear friends and he knows better than to kick a person when their down. Yes she hurt him BUT he is a friend to her and she is hurting, he knows that she never meant it and yes it still hurts him but she still is a friend to him and he still wishes to help her, all she had to do is ask, she has talked him around to helping her out before without the threats so why threaten him now? All she had to do is do that funny little thing called asking for his help.

Instead, she now has to win back the Doctors trust but she still gets her boyfriend back right? so whats a little trust building on the flip side of what she gets, Clara has been written poorly ever since the start of this season but whatever, we have seen the Doctor (11 included) wish to do nothing but help her when she needs it, as 11 said, 'my Clara', 11 and her had a bond, a close, friendship that a regeneration would NEVER destroy, sure the Doctor got quirkier and older but he IS still 11 and what did she go and do? Betray him, she betrayed the one man she had been friends with for many many years all because she couldn't trust him that her friend wouldn't help her when she needed him the most.

[CuteLittleKitty0911]

Nafretiti

CuteLittleKitty0911

I honestly think it was just a way to get the Doctors attention. No she wasn't afraid to throw all of them into the volcano. But she was distraught by the fact that Pink died such a boring death.. That he deserved such a better death. And Clara would stop at nothing to get the Doctor to bring him back.

Look at how he's been this whole entire season. He's been pushing himself away from the humans this season. And I think she was just thinking about all the ways it seemed like he didn't care about if one single human died.. I mean she said. "Danny Pink is dead," his response was "And" proving to her that he could care less that the man she loved was gone..

So, how else do you make it perfectly clear to the Doctor that you're not fing around? Try and get rid of every single key to the TARDIS. So that she can't take no for an answer.

Or, ya know, ASKING him may be a simple thing to do?

The Doctor has proven time and time and time again that he is a friend to her, yes it takes a bit of talking him around BUT he WILL say yes WITHOUT the threats, she basically just betrayed him in EVERY way she could possibly do so but guess what? He still wanted to help the very cow that just betrayed him, why? Because she and the Doctor are friends, dear dear friends and he knows better than to kick a person when their down. Yes she hurt him BUT he is a friend to her and she is hurting, he knows that she never meant it and yes it still hurts him but she still is a friend to him and he still wishes to help her, all she had to do is ask, she has talked him around to helping her out before without the threats so why threaten him now? All she had to do is do that funny little thing called asking for his help.

Instead, she now has to win back the Doctors trust but she still gets her boyfriend back right? so whats a little trust building on the flip side of what she gets, Clara has been written poorly ever since the start of this season but whatever, we have seen the Doctor (11 included) wish to do nothing but help her when she needs it, as 11 said, 'my Clara', 11 and her had a bond, a close, friendship that a regeneration would NEVER destroy, sure the Doctor got quirkier and older but he IS still 11 and what did she go and do? Betray him, she betrayed the one man she had been friends with for many many years all because she couldn't trust him that her friend wouldn't help her when she needed him the most.

Yes, but she was still completely distraught by the fact. She didn't know what he would do. Hell you could tell she was gone when she was with her gran trying to get ahold of the Doctor in the first place. And, if theories are correct (granted it's just a theory but they have been right before.. Such as the theory of Missy being The Master) she may be pregnant.. So on top of the fact that her boyfriend just died, she may be carrying her deceased boyfriends baby.. That would make any woman all sort of fudged up.. But who knows.. Just a theory...

And I'm not saying what she did was right.. Because it wasn't. But with him being the way he has been this whole entire season she didn't know if he would help her when she most needed him.

[Mutilated Moogle]

CuteLittleKitty0911

Nafretiti

CuteLittleKitty0911

I honestly think it was just a way to get the Doctors attention. No she wasn't afraid to throw all of them into the volcano. But she was distraught by the fact that Pink died such a boring death.. That he deserved such a better death. And Clara would stop at nothing to get the Doctor to bring him back.

Look at how he's been this whole entire season. He's been pushing himself away from the humans this season. And I think she was just thinking about all the ways it seemed like he didn't care about if one single human died.. I mean she said. "Danny Pink is dead," his response was "And" proving to her that he could care less that the man she loved was gone..

So, how else do you make it perfectly clear to the Doctor that you're not fing around? Try and get rid of every single key to the TARDIS. So that she can't take no for an answer.

Or, ya know, ASKING him may be a simple thing to do?

The Doctor has proven time and time and time again that he is a friend to her, yes it takes a bit of talking him around BUT he WILL say yes WITHOUT the threats, she basically just betrayed him in EVERY way she could possibly do so but guess what? He still wanted to help the very cow that just betrayed him, why? Because she and the Doctor are friends, dear dear friends and he knows better than to kick a person when their down. Yes she hurt him BUT he is a friend to her and she is hurting, he knows that she never meant it and yes it still hurts him but she still is a friend to him and he still wishes to help her, all she had to do is ask, she has talked him around to helping her out before without the threats so why threaten him now? All she had to do is do that funny little thing called asking for his help.

Instead, she now has to win back the Doctors trust but she still gets her boyfriend back right? so whats a little trust building on the flip side of what she gets, Clara has been written poorly ever since the start of this season but whatever, we have seen the Doctor (11 included) wish to do nothing but help her when she needs it, as 11 said, 'my Clara', 11 and her had a bond, a close, friendship that a regeneration would NEVER destroy, sure the Doctor got quirkier and older but he IS still 11 and what did she go and do? Betray him, she betrayed the one man she had been friends with for many many years all because she couldn't trust him that her friend wouldn't help her when she needed him the most.

Yes, but she was still completely distraught by the fact. She didn't know what he would do. Hell you could tell she was gone when she was with her gran trying to get ahold of the Doctor in the first place. And, if theories are correct (granted it's just a theory but they have been right before.. Such as the theory of Missy being The Master) she may be pregnant.. So on top of the fact that her boyfriend just died, she may be carrying her deceased boyfriends baby.. That would make any woman all sort of fudged up.. But who knows.. Just a theory...

And I'm not saying what she did was right.. Because it wasn't. But with him being the way he has been this whole entire season she didn't know if he would help her when she most needed him.

Fair point, I can grant you that but the second part? This goes back to bad writing, he asked her in the first episode 'why can't you see me?' Which means that really, we have been through this, the Doctor is STILL the 11th, he wanted her to believe that he was still the 11th, he wanted her to see him as the 11th but STILL as a new regeneration, so yes, she knew he was a bit more quirky etc BUT she also accepted him way back in episode 1, the whole hugging thing and looking at him closely etc showed she believed he was still the Doctor she cared about so she KNOWS he would of help her, she has trusted him all this time why back track and think 'nah, I have trusted him all this time but why trust him now? That is a silly thing to do!'.

Seriously, shes an idiot, hormones aside, she is just an idiot.

[kinnykins]

yeah clara's a dumbass, i keep telling y'all