Would you still respect DC Comics? Harley Quinn and suicide

[deadguy]

Wiener Soldier

deadguy

Wiener Soldier

deadguy

Someone posted something decent about this on DA, so I figured I'd copy it here:

Jolly Jack

There has been quite a bit of internet chatter about the script DC chose for this, mainly in regards to the oversexualization of Harley Quinn (which I can’t really argue with) and how the script requires her to be depicted in a bath.
Lots of hysterical people criticising DC for “requesting her being drawn naked”.
I’d planned out my page before I’d read any of these comments. She has to be in a bath, so that she’s naked is pretty much a given, but it had never occurred to me that Harley should be rendered in any kind of pseudo-soft-core pose. That’s just not in key with the character that I know.
If you read the script and thought that was what was required, that says more about you than it does DC.

It reads:

PANEL 4
Harley sitting naked in a bathtub with toasters, blow dryers, blenders, appliances all dangling above the bathtub and she has a cord that will release them all. We are watching the moment before the inevitable death. Her expression is one of “oh well, guess that’s it for me” and she has resigned herself to the moment that is going to happen.

Not:

PANEL 4
Harley sitting naked in a bathtub with toasters, blow dryers, blenders, appliances all dangling above the bathtub and she has a cord that will release them all. We are watching the moment before the inevitable death. Her expression is one of “oh well, guess that’s it for me” and she has resigned herself to the moment that is going to happen. We are witnessing all this from a birds eye view. Suds and steam obscure the nipples but not the full rack. Her free arm is curled just under her boobs, raising them slightly out of the water and at the same time squeezing them together gently.
A rubber duck floats over her snatch. It looks happy.

If each panel of a comic tells a story, this one is meant to relay that the apparently suicidal Quinn is about to fry herself….and she’s going to be thorough about it. There’s no reason for nudity to be any kind of hang-up or focus at all, hence its complete absence from my interpretation.

http://jollyjack.deviantart.com/art/Quinnicide-399525619

All the description says is that she can't wear clothes, not that she needs to be sexualized in any way. I'd suggest waiting to see the page's context in Harley Quin #0 before bitching about it.

It's sexualized. Female nudity for the purpose of the male gaze = sexualization. And sexualization of suicide? As a survivor of many failed suicide attempts, it is so disgusting to see DC do this.

And if you're going to argue the point, you need to go back to your sweaty MRA friends and just stop talking here.

Who said she was nude "for the purpose of the male gaze"? Why can't she be nude because that's what people do when they take baths? You seem to think all nudity, for any reason, is sexualization, and that's just not true. It has nothing to do with MRAs (I'm not sure why you brought that up).

Until you realize they'd never put a male in this position. DC is, and has always been, highly sexist. The trope of sensationalized female character deaths has long haunted the medium, as has a terrible tendency to oversexualize and objectify women characters; it's almost surprising that it's taken DC this long to combine the two into a vile heap of casual sexism — because female suicide is so fascinating and compelling and cool, right, guys?

Now be a good little boy and go back to your toys until you learn how to talk about grown up issues with a little bit of intelligence to back your argument.

No, I'm sure they would never show a man naked in the bath/shower, right? So this, and this, and this must all be edits, right?

Your entire argument keeps coming back to the idea that any character without clothes must be being sexualized, and that depends entirely on how they're drawn. Can you at least admit that it's possible to draw a character bathing without sexualizing them? And then hold off on judging them until you see whether or not the drawing they pick actually sexualizes her? Or does everyone without clothes have to automatically be sexual, including Dennis the Menace?

And you realize that she's not actually dying/killing herself, right? She's imagining doing it because the writers are being mean to her (breaking the 4th wall).

Now how about you go back to your toys until you stop seeing something to be offended by around every corner. Grow up, get a life, and stop going out of your way to try and be offended.

[I Shall Give You NoMercy]

Discuss:

1. Do you still respect DC after knowing that they have displayed such extremes of character treatment and development.

Psh no. I'm kinda biased because I've always liked Marvel better, but I really can't stand DC and this made it a million times worse. Plus, the only DC character I care about, Batwomen, isn't going to be shown getting married like DC at first promised because "ew gays are icky"
So yeah they can go ******** themselves

2. Would you assume that DC did this disregarding women's reactions? Or do you think this was intentional?

Intentional. I heard a while ago, some of the directors of the company or whatever claiming that "we only make comicbooks for 45 year old guys" So it's pretty clear they don't give a s**t about their female fanbase and never did to begin with.

3. If women's rights is your sort of thing, would you feel motivated to do something about this? Do this info need to be shared and does DC deserve to be exploited?

I know a bunch of people on tumblr are sending them the exact same prompt but with male superheros instead doing overly sexualitied poses (think hawkeye incentive)
Which if I had the time, I'd totally do too
lol

[Lucrecia_Luna]

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

I don't know that I can respect them after this. I've always preferred DC over Marvel, because they make things just a bit grittier and darker. The flaws of the characters make them seem a bit more human. But this... I've loved Harley Quinn ever since she appeared in Batman the Animated Series. She was quirky and cute and nutty, but unfortunately, also Joker's punching bag. They could have continued doing something great with her as a semi-stand-alone character, but instead they threw her into the Suicide Squad. And now this. Only the last panel even remotely suggests that she can be nude because she's in a bath tub, but that doesn't make it okay. They're sexualizing and objectifying suicide. I could care less if DC wanted her drawn stark naked, but I can't accept the suicide scenarios. It's ridiculous that they even chose that for the subject matter. If they're going to continue to use the New 52 Harley for this new series they're working on, I'm not going to read it. Especially not if suicide is involved.

It's not. This is a dream sequence. The over the top attempts (Covering herself in chicken and going to an alligator pond) and the fact that there's more than one should have clued you in.

Had there been a context to the actual contest page that I went to, maybe I could have seen that. But there was no indication that they meant a dream sequence or otherwise. Over-the-top or not, it was still crude without context and can be interpreted as something as serious as suicide or even as just random scenarios chosen from a hat.

[deadguy]

I Shall Give You NoMercy

Discuss:

1. Do you still respect DC after knowing that they have displayed such extremes of character treatment and development.

Psh no. I'm kinda biased because I've always liked Marvel better, but I really can't stand DC and this made it a million times worse. Plus, the only DC character I care about, Batwomen, isn't going to be shown getting married like DC at first promised because "ew gays are icky"
So yeah they can go ******** themselves

Actually, it's because DC doesn't want characters to be married right now. It had nothing to do with her sexual orientation. This is also why Aquaman and Superman are no longer married, and why Animal Man is going through such a rough patch with his wife.

I Shall Give You NoMercy

2. Would you assume that DC did this disregarding women's reactions? Or do you think this was intentional?

Intentional. I heard a while ago, some of the directors of the company or whatever claiming that "we only make comicbooks for 45 year old guys" So it's pretty clear they don't give a s**t about their female fanbase and never did to begin with.

The actual quote was "Stop, stop. We don’t publish comics for kids. We publish comics for 45-year-olds. If you want to do comics for kids, you can do Scooby-Doo." Notice gender wasn't involved. You added that yourself.

I Shall Give You NoMercy

3. If women's rights is your sort of thing, would you feel motivated to do something about this? Do this info need to be shared and does DC deserve to be exploited?

I know a bunch of people on tumblr are sending them the exact same prompt but with male superheros instead doing overly sexualitied poses (think hawkeye incentive)
Which if I had the time, I'd totally do too
lol

The Hawkeye initiative (not incentive) would be a lot better if it was done by people who could actually draw. They make some good points- that women are placed in positions that would look stupid if they were men. But since these aren't professional comic artists, but instead idiots on tumbler, it's impossible to tell which ones are stupid because Hawkeye is replacing a woman, and which ones would be fine if Hawkeye were just drawn better. I see a lot of them that would completely work if Hawkeye were only drawn with the same quality as the original image. More than one doesn't work because the artist insisted on keeping female only clothing or hairstyle instead of extrapolating the male alternative. For instance, giving him a breast plate, without any breasts. Or this and this, where they decide to keep Rogue's "hair over one eye" look, but not the rest of it. So while Rogue's hair covers her eye because it's long and flowing, Hawkeye's hair is quite short except the one patch that covers his eye, because it was designed only to do so. He looks silly because the artist drew him poorly, not because Rogue's pose or clothing was especially sexist.

[deadguy]

Lucrecia_Luna

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

I don't know that I can respect them after this. I've always preferred DC over Marvel, because they make things just a bit grittier and darker. The flaws of the characters make them seem a bit more human. But this... I've loved Harley Quinn ever since she appeared in Batman the Animated Series. She was quirky and cute and nutty, but unfortunately, also Joker's punching bag. They could have continued doing something great with her as a semi-stand-alone character, but instead they threw her into the Suicide Squad. And now this. Only the last panel even remotely suggests that she can be nude because she's in a bath tub, but that doesn't make it okay. They're sexualizing and objectifying suicide. I could care less if DC wanted her drawn stark naked, but I can't accept the suicide scenarios. It's ridiculous that they even chose that for the subject matter. If they're going to continue to use the New 52 Harley for this new series they're working on, I'm not going to read it. Especially not if suicide is involved.

It's not. This is a dream sequence. The over the top attempts (Covering herself in chicken and going to an alligator pond) and the fact that there's more than one should have clued you in.

Had there been a context to the actual contest page that I went to, maybe I could have seen that. But there was no indication that they meant a dream sequence or otherwise. Over-the-top or not, it was still crude without context and can be interpreted as something as serious as suicide or even as just random scenarios chosen from a hat.

But now that you know it's only a dream sequence, are they still "sexualizing and objectifying suicide"?

[Lucrecia_Luna]

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

I don't know that I can respect them after this. I've always preferred DC over Marvel, because they make things just a bit grittier and darker. The flaws of the characters make them seem a bit more human. But this... I've loved Harley Quinn ever since she appeared in Batman the Animated Series. She was quirky and cute and nutty, but unfortunately, also Joker's punching bag. They could have continued doing something great with her as a semi-stand-alone character, but instead they threw her into the Suicide Squad. And now this. Only the last panel even remotely suggests that she can be nude because she's in a bath tub, but that doesn't make it okay. They're sexualizing and objectifying suicide. I could care less if DC wanted her drawn stark naked, but I can't accept the suicide scenarios. It's ridiculous that they even chose that for the subject matter. If they're going to continue to use the New 52 Harley for this new series they're working on, I'm not going to read it. Especially not if suicide is involved.

It's not. This is a dream sequence. The over the top attempts (Covering herself in chicken and going to an alligator pond) and the fact that there's more than one should have clued you in.

Had there been a context to the actual contest page that I went to, maybe I could have seen that. But there was no indication that they meant a dream sequence or otherwise. Over-the-top or not, it was still crude without context and can be interpreted as something as serious as suicide or even as just random scenarios chosen from a hat.

But now that you know it's only a dream sequence, are they still "sexualizing and objectifying suicide"?

Yes, I do. "We are watching the moment before the inevitable death." Right there they are saying it's going to happen. She is going to commit suicide. I can just see all those misguided kids who are going to try to emulate that last panel in DA photographs and end up with injuries if they don't take the proper care. (That has nothing at all to do with this discussion, but it is one of the first things I thought about when I read through the contest.) The other panels are less problematic, and even the whale one sounds strange and almost cute. Who doesn't love a giggly, adorable Harley having a good time? I just can't accept that last panel. To me, they are objectifying it by trying to turn something as serious as suicide into something light-hearted.

[deadguy]

Lucrecia_Luna

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

I don't know that I can respect them after this. I've always preferred DC over Marvel, because they make things just a bit grittier and darker. The flaws of the characters make them seem a bit more human. But this... I've loved Harley Quinn ever since she appeared in Batman the Animated Series. She was quirky and cute and nutty, but unfortunately, also Joker's punching bag. They could have continued doing something great with her as a semi-stand-alone character, but instead they threw her into the Suicide Squad. And now this. Only the last panel even remotely suggests that she can be nude because she's in a bath tub, but that doesn't make it okay. They're sexualizing and objectifying suicide. I could care less if DC wanted her drawn stark naked, but I can't accept the suicide scenarios. It's ridiculous that they even chose that for the subject matter. If they're going to continue to use the New 52 Harley for this new series they're working on, I'm not going to read it. Especially not if suicide is involved.

It's not. This is a dream sequence. The over the top attempts (Covering herself in chicken and going to an alligator pond) and the fact that there's more than one should have clued you in.

Had there been a context to the actual contest page that I went to, maybe I could have seen that. But there was no indication that they meant a dream sequence or otherwise. Over-the-top or not, it was still crude without context and can be interpreted as something as serious as suicide or even as just random scenarios chosen from a hat.

But now that you know it's only a dream sequence, are they still "sexualizing and objectifying suicide"?

Yes, I do. "We are watching the moment before the inevitable death." Right there they are saying it's going to happen. She is going to commit suicide. I can just see all those misguided kids who are going to try to emulate that last panel in DA photographs and end up with injuries if they don't take the proper care. (That has nothing at all to do with this discussion, but it is one of the first things I thought about when I read through the contest.) The other panels are less problematic, and even the whale one sounds strange and almost cute. Who doesn't love a giggly, adorable Harley having a good time? I just can't accept that last panel. To me they are objectifying it by trying to turn something as serious as suicide into something light-hearted.

I suppose you hate Loony Tunes too then? And Southpark? And Family Guy? And Futurama? And Disney? And The Simpsons? And Tom and Jerry (It's not entirely apparent from the image, but they're waiting for a train to run them over). And Drawn Together?

[Lucrecia_Luna]

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

I don't know that I can respect them after this. I've always preferred DC over Marvel, because they make things just a bit grittier and darker. The flaws of the characters make them seem a bit more human. But this... I've loved Harley Quinn ever since she appeared in Batman the Animated Series. She was quirky and cute and nutty, but unfortunately, also Joker's punching bag. They could have continued doing something great with her as a semi-stand-alone character, but instead they threw her into the Suicide Squad. And now this. Only the last panel even remotely suggests that she can be nude because she's in a bath tub, but that doesn't make it okay. They're sexualizing and objectifying suicide. I could care less if DC wanted her drawn stark naked, but I can't accept the suicide scenarios. It's ridiculous that they even chose that for the subject matter. If they're going to continue to use the New 52 Harley for this new series they're working on, I'm not going to read it. Especially not if suicide is involved.

It's not. This is a dream sequence. The over the top attempts (Covering herself in chicken and going to an alligator pond) and the fact that there's more than one should have clued you in.

Had there been a context to the actual contest page that I went to, maybe I could have seen that. But there was no indication that they meant a dream sequence or otherwise. Over-the-top or not, it was still crude without context and can be interpreted as something as serious as suicide or even as just random scenarios chosen from a hat.

But now that you know it's only a dream sequence, are they still "sexualizing and objectifying suicide"?

Yes, I do. "We are watching the moment before the inevitable death." Right there they are saying it's going to happen. She is going to commit suicide. I can just see all those misguided kids who are going to try to emulate that last panel in DA photographs and end up with injuries if they don't take the proper care. (That has nothing at all to do with this discussion, but it is one of the first things I thought about when I read through the contest.) The other panels are less problematic, and even the whale one sounds strange and almost cute. Who doesn't love a giggly, adorable Harley having a good time? I just can't accept that last panel. To me they are objectifying it by trying to turn something as serious as suicide into something light-hearted.

I suppose you hate Loony Tunes too then? And Southpark? And Family Guy? And Futurama? And Disney? And The Simpsons? And Tom and Jerry (It's not entirely apparent from the image, but they're waiting for a train to run them over). And Drawn Together?

Now you're just being childish. You asked, so I gave you my opinion. You're pointlessly attacking it and going off-topic. I never said I dislike anything aside from the implication of suicide in the Harley Quinn contest.

[deadguy]

Lucrecia_Luna

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

Had there been a context to the actual contest page that I went to, maybe I could have seen that. But there was no indication that they meant a dream sequence or otherwise. Over-the-top or not, it was still crude without context and can be interpreted as something as serious as suicide or even as just random scenarios chosen from a hat.

But now that you know it's only a dream sequence, are they still "sexualizing and objectifying suicide"?

Yes, I do. "We are watching the moment before the inevitable death." Right there they are saying it's going to happen. She is going to commit suicide. I can just see all those misguided kids who are going to try to emulate that last panel in DA photographs and end up with injuries if they don't take the proper care. (That has nothing at all to do with this discussion, but it is one of the first things I thought about when I read through the contest.) The other panels are less problematic, and even the whale one sounds strange and almost cute. Who doesn't love a giggly, adorable Harley having a good time? I just can't accept that last panel. To me they are objectifying it by trying to turn something as serious as suicide into something light-hearted.

I suppose you hate Loony Tunes too then? And Southpark? And Family Guy? And Futurama? And Disney? And The Simpsons? And Tom and Jerry (It's not entirely apparent from the image, but they're waiting for a train to run them over). And Drawn Together?

Now you're just being childish. You asked, so I gave you my opinion. You're pointlessly attacking it and going off-topic. I never said I dislike anything aside from the implication of suicide in the Harley Quinn contest.

But why is the implication of suicide in the Harley Quinn contest worse than any other implication of suicide in cartoons, of which there are many? Why complain about this, but none of the others?

Here's an entire page of funny suicides. Why complain only about Harley's? You said you would refuse to read any more of the nu52 Harley after this, but why are you only boycotting her?

[Lucrecia_Luna]

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

Had there been a context to the actual contest page that I went to, maybe I could have seen that. But there was no indication that they meant a dream sequence or otherwise. Over-the-top or not, it was still crude without context and can be interpreted as something as serious as suicide or even as just random scenarios chosen from a hat.

But now that you know it's only a dream sequence, are they still "sexualizing and objectifying suicide"?

Yes, I do. "We are watching the moment before the inevitable death." Right there they are saying it's going to happen. She is going to commit suicide. I can just see all those misguided kids who are going to try to emulate that last panel in DA photographs and end up with injuries if they don't take the proper care. (That has nothing at all to do with this discussion, but it is one of the first things I thought about when I read through the contest.) The other panels are less problematic, and even the whale one sounds strange and almost cute. Who doesn't love a giggly, adorable Harley having a good time? I just can't accept that last panel. To me they are objectifying it by trying to turn something as serious as suicide into something light-hearted.

I suppose you hate Loony Tunes too then? And Southpark? And Family Guy? And Futurama? And Disney? And The Simpsons? And Tom and Jerry (It's not entirely apparent from the image, but they're waiting for a train to run them over). And Drawn Together?

Now you're just being childish. You asked, so I gave you my opinion. You're pointlessly attacking it and going off-topic. I never said I dislike anything aside from the implication of suicide in the Harley Quinn contest.

But why is the implication of suicide in the Harley Quinn contest worse than any other implication of suicide in cartoons, of which there are many? Why complain about this, but none of the others?

Here's an entire page of funny suicides. Why complain only about Harley's? You said you would refuse to read any more of the nu52 Harley after this, but why are you only boycotting her?

The thread is about Harley Quinn and the contest. Why would I complain about anything else? I'm not here to needlessly argue with anyone just because they don't agree with me. Have a nice day.

[Chris Powell]

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

deadguy

Lucrecia_Luna

Had there been a context to the actual contest page that I went to, maybe I could have seen that. But there was no indication that they meant a dream sequence or otherwise. Over-the-top or not, it was still crude without context and can be interpreted as something as serious as suicide or even as just random scenarios chosen from a hat.

But now that you know it's only a dream sequence, are they still "sexualizing and objectifying suicide"?

Yes, I do. "We are watching the moment before the inevitable death." Right there they are saying it's going to happen. She is going to commit suicide. I can just see all those misguided kids who are going to try to emulate that last panel in DA photographs and end up with injuries if they don't take the proper care. (That has nothing at all to do with this discussion, but it is one of the first things I thought about when I read through the contest.) The other panels are less problematic, and even the whale one sounds strange and almost cute. Who doesn't love a giggly, adorable Harley having a good time? I just can't accept that last panel. To me they are objectifying it by trying to turn something as serious as suicide into something light-hearted.

I suppose you hate Loony Tunes too then? And Southpark? And Family Guy? And Futurama? And Disney? And The Simpsons? And Tom and Jerry (It's not entirely apparent from the image, but they're waiting for a train to run them over). And Drawn Together?

Now you're just being childish. You asked, so I gave you my opinion. You're pointlessly attacking it and going off-topic. I never said I dislike anything aside from the implication of suicide in the Harley Quinn contest.

But why is the implication of suicide in the Harley Quinn contest worse than any other implication of suicide in cartoons, of which there are many? Why complain about this, but none of the others?

Here's an entire page of funny suicides. Why complain only about Harley's? You said you would refuse to read any more of the nu52 Harley after this, but why are you only boycotting her?

Appeal to hypocrisy. Lucrecia Luna's lack of complaining about other depictions of suicide does not invalidate her argument. Attacking a persons's alleged inconsistency on a subject and not their actual position is a logical fallacy.

[Thorin Smokinshield]

deadguy

Wiener Soldier

deadguy

Wiener Soldier

deadguy

Someone posted something decent about this on DA, so I figured I'd copy it here:

Jolly Jack

There has been quite a bit of internet chatter about the script DC chose for this, mainly in regards to the oversexualization of Harley Quinn (which I can’t really argue with) and how the script requires her to be depicted in a bath.
Lots of hysterical people criticising DC for “requesting her being drawn naked”.
I’d planned out my page before I’d read any of these comments. She has to be in a bath, so that she’s naked is pretty much a given, but it had never occurred to me that Harley should be rendered in any kind of pseudo-soft-core pose. That’s just not in key with the character that I know.
If you read the script and thought that was what was required, that says more about you than it does DC.

It reads:

PANEL 4
Harley sitting naked in a bathtub with toasters, blow dryers, blenders, appliances all dangling above the bathtub and she has a cord that will release them all. We are watching the moment before the inevitable death. Her expression is one of “oh well, guess that’s it for me” and she has resigned herself to the moment that is going to happen.

Not:

PANEL 4
Harley sitting naked in a bathtub with toasters, blow dryers, blenders, appliances all dangling above the bathtub and she has a cord that will release them all. We are watching the moment before the inevitable death. Her expression is one of “oh well, guess that’s it for me” and she has resigned herself to the moment that is going to happen. We are witnessing all this from a birds eye view. Suds and steam obscure the nipples but not the full rack. Her free arm is curled just under her boobs, raising them slightly out of the water and at the same time squeezing them together gently.
A rubber duck floats over her snatch. It looks happy.

If each panel of a comic tells a story, this one is meant to relay that the apparently suicidal Quinn is about to fry herself….and she’s going to be thorough about it. There’s no reason for nudity to be any kind of hang-up or focus at all, hence its complete absence from my interpretation.

http://jollyjack.deviantart.com/art/Quinnicide-399525619

All the description says is that she can't wear clothes, not that she needs to be sexualized in any way. I'd suggest waiting to see the page's context in Harley Quin #0 before bitching about it.

It's sexualized. Female nudity for the purpose of the male gaze = sexualization. And sexualization of suicide? As a survivor of many failed suicide attempts, it is so disgusting to see DC do this.

And if you're going to argue the point, you need to go back to your sweaty MRA friends and just stop talking here.

Who said she was nude "for the purpose of the male gaze"? Why can't she be nude because that's what people do when they take baths? You seem to think all nudity, for any reason, is sexualization, and that's just not true. It has nothing to do with MRAs (I'm not sure why you brought that up).

Until you realize they'd never put a male in this position. DC is, and has always been, highly sexist. The trope of sensationalized female character deaths has long haunted the medium, as has a terrible tendency to oversexualize and objectify women characters; it's almost surprising that it's taken DC this long to combine the two into a vile heap of casual sexism — because female suicide is so fascinating and compelling and cool, right, guys?

Now be a good little boy and go back to your toys until you learn how to talk about grown up issues with a little bit of intelligence to back your argument.

No, I'm sure they would never show a man naked in the bath/shower, right? So this, and this, and this must all be edits, right?

Your entire argument keeps coming back to the idea that any character without clothes must be being sexualized, and that depends entirely on how they're drawn. Can you at least admit that it's possible to draw a character bathing without sexualizing them? And then hold off on judging them until you see whether or not the drawing they pick actually sexualizes her? Or does everyone without clothes have to automatically be sexual, including Dennis the Menace?

And you realize that she's not actually dying/killing herself, right? She's imagining doing it because the writers are being mean to her (breaking the 4th wall).

Now how about you go back to your toys until you stop seeing something to be offended by around every corner. Grow up, get a life, and stop going out of your way to try and be offended.

Oh boy, I can see I'm going to have to break this down in the simplest terms possible so the poor wittle baby whose feelings got hurt because he's sexist but doesn't want to be called that can understand this:

Suicide. Suicide is not a joke. Breaking the fourth wall is hilarious, but there are other ways to do it other than mischaracterizing someone. First off- Harley isn't suicidal. If she felt upset with the writers, she'd likely have them in all these positions. Not herself.

Naked. The description specified she'd be naked. Instead of, say, "Harley in a bathtub with toasters hanging above her." Everyone already knew the theme was suicide- they know what to do. But the fact that DC staff SPECIFIED that they WANT to see her NAKED in a situation that they really didn't have to be clear on that. It was really the only in-depth description they gave of her. Each of them had her doing various actions, and the only time her physical description was mentioned in any of them? She had to be NAKED. In a situation that didn't need that specified. So basically, the message that it sends across is "Don't forget, we want to see skin in this picture. It's only useful if we see skin." Sexualization, my friend. No not all nakedness is sexual. But that? It's for the male gaze. They don't give a s**t about Harley's appearance except that she be naked. That's all they care about. Naked and suicide.

Now, I know you get to live a privileged life and just want all girls to be subservient because "if we don't talk about it, sexism will go away", but let's take a moment to reflect on all societal problems that have been solved with silence.

Nope.

Got nothing.

Because there isn't.

Now, I also see you're fond of red herrings- a logical fallacy used to bring irrelevant information that has nothing all together to contribute to the subject. Sure, men have been naked in comics before. But has there ever been a contest where they had to commit suicide (out of character), and then it was specified that they HAD to be naked? Harley Quinn isn't a little sex doll that you can forcibly shove into various activities that she herself would never actually participate in. She's not suicidal. She's vengeful.

If you have a mother, look at her. Would YOU want to see a contest like this? Imagine, if her boss was being rude to her. Would you then host a contest about people drawing your mother in all these situations? Would you specify she had to be naked in the final panel, even though it's a bathtub and everyone assumes she'd already be naked? If you have a girlfriend, oh wait, no one thinks sexism is attractive. So you don't.

Your argument is bad. Grow up. Stop getting offended when a gender that has been systematically oppressed, whose death has been glorified and sexualized since the dawn of comics, calls sexism out on its bullshit. You don't get to do that, because YOU are the problem. YOU and EVERYONE LIKE YOU is the source of sexism and rape culture. "Oh no, what does rape have to do with this?" Accepted violence towards women, and sexualization of that violence. Which is what this entire contest is about.

And honestly, if you still don't get it, then I apologize. I can't simplify this anymore for you. You're just too stupid to understand.

[I Shall Give You NoMercy]

deadguy

["]

1. I don't care. I still find the whole thing stupid.

2. No, I didn't add gender. That's how I originally heard the quote. And c'mon. You know they were talking about guys either way. Quit nitpicking.

3. Oh wow.
This is the whiniest and most nitpicking thing Ive seen on here. After seeing you post around, it seems all you ever do is b***h and b***h and frankly it's annoying.
Also, you're little "I'm not offended by this so that means you're just overly-senstive!!" attitude isn't so charming either.
I don't care if you think the Hawkeye Intensive is stupid or poorly drawn (which, if you actually looked at more then two pictures, you would see that most of has some pretty good quality) or whatever. I still like it and think its clever.
And not everyone is a professional artist. If its still done decently then who cares? Most of the people who do this are usually teenagers or young adults, so obviously their art skills arn't going to be at its top form yet.
Besides, I doubt you could do any better.
Quit ruining everyone's fun and pull that stick lodged inside your a** out.

[deadguy]

I Shall Give You NoMercy

deadguy

["]

2. No, I didn't add gender. That's how I originally heard the quote. And c'mon. You know they were talking about guys either way. Quit nitpicking.

Yes, their complete lack of talking about guys is surely an indicator that they were talking about guys. Also, their lack of talking about gay robot dinosaurs means they must have also been talking about gay robot dinosaurs, right?

I Shall Give You NoMercy

3. Oh wow.
This is the whiniest and most nitpicking thing Ive seen on here. After seeing you post around, it seems all you ever do is b***h and b***h and frankly it's annoying.
Also, you're little "I'm not offended by this so that means you're just overly-senstive!!" attitude isn't so charming either.
I don't care if you think the Hawkeye Intensive is stupid or poorly drawn (which, if you actually looked at more then two pictures, you would see that most of has some pretty good quality) or whatever. I still like it and think its clever.
And not everyone is a professional artist. If its still done decently then who cares? Most of the people who do this are usually teenagers or young adults, so obviously their art skills arn't going to be at its top form yet.
Besides, I doubt you could do any better.
Quit ruining everyone's fun and pull that stick lodged inside your a** out.

No, I can't draw any better, but then I'm not using my drawings to make a point. These people are explicitly saying "Look how stupid Hawkeye looks when he's placed in the same poses as these women. SEXISM!111!". They have a Hawkeye test in their FAQ, " If your female character can be replaced by Hawkeye in the same pose without looking silly or stupid, then it’s acceptable and probably non sexist. If you can’t, then just forget about it.” but the only reason Hawkeye looks silly or stupid in all their pictures is because none of them can draw him right. If Hawkeye were actually drawn correctly, without female only clothing, or positions that require him to be flying when he doesn't have that power, or only make sense if he's either wielding a specific weapon or no weapons at all but the artist decided to give him his bow instead, or hairstyles that seem to have been designed to make him look retarded, a lot of those "silly, stupid" pictures of him would be quite hot. If this were a picture of a man with Starfire's powers (Flight and the ability to fire projectiles from his fists), then it would be perfectly reasonable.

And if I'm coming off as charmless, it's because every single person in this entire forum seems to be attacking DC for completely innocent things.

[I Shall Give You NoMercy]

]

deadguy

]["]

1. You know damn well that most of the time, comic creators are writing and appealing to mostly the male fanbase. Quit acting stupid.

2. He's posed in positions that explicitly show off a** and tits on women, to show how stupid it looks. That's it. If you actually looked at more then two pictures and didnt go straight to bitching, you'd know that.
But oh wait, the HI is a thing that proves how sexist the comic insustry can be at times and you hate that, along with anything that dosen't put the comic industry on a golden pedestal.

deadguy

And if I'm coming off as charmless, it's because every single person in this entire forum seems to be attacking DC for completely innocent things.

Yeah, getting mad that a famous female character is being sexualized while committing sucide naked is TOTALLY innocent lol amirite you guis.
Ugh, after reading thur this thread, I can easily tell you're one of those guys who thinks sexism dosen't exist anymore and anyone who complains about it is a whiny femanazi, no matter how much proof you've been shown otherwise. Maybe it's because you're a guy, but you just don't get it, so just stop and leave before you make yourself look like an even bigger insensitive idiot.