Some Christian metal bands...

[Scarch]

TURTLE BASED WEAPONRY

SaguaroDundee

Lacking evidence is even worse than contradictory evidence. That means no body knows, and you're all in a butthobble to find out.
Don't trust everyone in that Butthobble, just sayin. Peer review is good.

yes and they expect us to provide them the evidence that they lack

******** no. you provide the evidence for us to believe you. that's how it works, not the other way around

I take it you didn't read the article I posted.

[sodaburp]

Scarch

TURTLE BASED WEAPONRY

SaguaroDundee

Lacking evidence is even worse than contradictory evidence. That means no body knows, and you're all in a butthobble to find out.
Don't trust everyone in that Butthobble, just sayin. Peer review is good.

yes and they expect us to provide them the evidence that they lack

******** no. you provide the evidence for us to believe you. that's how it works, not the other way around

I take it you didn't read the article I posted.

i didn't honestly

don't remember why, but it's probably because i got distracted. i'll read it now

[sodaburp]

"We find that Jesus Christ affirmed the Biblical account of the Exodus as true,"

jesus christ (a person/character that is also not proven to have ever existed) saying that it happened is not proof

"Many critics who doubt the historicity of the Exodus share a problem: over-reliance on what archaeology can prove."

lmfao "over reliance on what [can be proven]" is not a problem confused wanting factual evidence so that you can back up your claims is hardly the problem. if they found that their claims were false they would most certainly share that information as well, because it would be an amazing find

"Evidence Destroyed" is the only thing going for this article. it makes me legitimately upset that any part of history was destroyed by anyone. it limits our scope of understanding and is a b***h

"Besides these limits of archaeology, an additional problem exists that is seldom noted—the ever-present scholarly bias. "

this is also not a problem. one should not have blind faith. using "scholarly bias" as a negative here is worse than having a bias against the bible lol as if wanting to find cold hard evidence one way or another of what actually happened there, for or against in favor of the bible, is not wrong or something to whine about

i stopped reading there because this article is ******** stupid

[Amanda Gaider]

******** understanding things.

[sodaburp]

[******** understanding things.yeah how lame of me

[Scarch]

TURTLE BASED WEAPONRY

"We find that Jesus Christ affirmed the Biblical account of the Exodus as true,"

jesus christ (a person/character that is also not proven to have ever existed) saying that it happened is not proof

"Many critics who doubt the historicity of the Exodus share a problem: over-reliance on what archaeology can prove."

lmfao "over reliance on what [can be proven]" is not a problem confused wanting factual evidence so that you can back up your claims is hardly the problem. if they found that their claims were false they would most certainly share that information as well, because it would be an amazing find

"Evidence Destroyed" is the only thing going for this article. it makes me legitimately upset that any part of history was destroyed by anyone. it limits our scope of understanding and is a b***h

"Besides these limits of archaeology, an additional problem exists that is seldom noted—the ever-present scholarly bias. "

this is also not a problem. one should not have blind faith. using "scholarly bias" as a negative here is worse than having a bias against the bible lol as if wanting to find cold hard evidence one way or another of what actually happened there, for or against in favor of the bible, is not wrong or something to whine about

i stopped reading there because this article is ******** stupid

Nothing you just said makes any sense.

Jesus Christ saying that it happened isn't proof. You're right. The article doesn't claim that. So why would you say that? The article says "First, let’s make sure we have a clear picture of the Biblical perspective." That's all they were doing, affirming the biblical perspective.

Over-reliance on what archaeology can prove has nothing to do with wanting factual evidence so that you can back up your claims. Think about it. You're digging in the dirt to find evidence of events that happened thousands of years ago. You're going to find objects, usually broken, and rubble, it takes a long time to find anything useful. And how are you supposed to prove historical events with random objects you find? It is very difficult. We're not just talking about biblical events, it is hard to prove any historical events from that time.

You are saying if there is no evidence then that's a good indication that the events never happened. That is an over-reliance on what archaeology can prove. It isn't as if the whole Earth has been perfectly excavated and we didn't find anything. It's the fact that only 2 percent of the archaeological sites have been meaningfully excavated and many sites have not been found yet. It's the fact that archaeology takes a long time, and just because we haven't found evidence yet of some biblical events doesn't mean you should ignore all of the evidence that has been found and go around saying "a lot of the bibles events did not happen and have been proven to have never happened" when not a single event of the Bible has been proven to have never happened. You showed me an article that suggests the Exodus may not have happened because there is no evidence that it did happen. That isn't proof that it didn't happen.

"Radio commentator Dennis Prager made an insightful comment about Rabbi Wolpe’s skepticism of the Exodus account noted earlier:

According to the [Los Angeles Times] article, most archaeologists...do not believe the Biblical Exodus occurred. That most archaeologists conclude from the alleged lack of archaeological evidence that Jews were never slaves in Egypt and the Exodus to Canaan never took place tells us something about these individuals, but nothing about the Bible or the Exodus."

[sodaburp]

Scarch

TURTLE BASED WEAPONRY

"We find that Jesus Christ affirmed the Biblical account of the Exodus as true,"

jesus christ (a person/character that is also not proven to have ever existed) saying that it happened is not proof

"Many critics who doubt the historicity of the Exodus share a problem: over-reliance on what archaeology can prove."

lmfao "over reliance on what [can be proven]" is not a problem confused wanting factual evidence so that you can back up your claims is hardly the problem. if they found that their claims were false they would most certainly share that information as well, because it would be an amazing find

"Evidence Destroyed" is the only thing going for this article. it makes me legitimately upset that any part of history was destroyed by anyone. it limits our scope of understanding and is a b***h

"Besides these limits of archaeology, an additional problem exists that is seldom noted—the ever-present scholarly bias. "

this is also not a problem. one should not have blind faith. using "scholarly bias" as a negative here is worse than having a bias against the bible lol as if wanting to find cold hard evidence one way or another of what actually happened there, for or against in favor of the bible, is not wrong or something to whine about

i stopped reading there because this article is ******** stupid

Nothing you just said makes any sense.

Jesus Christ saying that it happened isn't proof. You're right. The article doesn't claim that. So why would you say that? The article says "First, let’s make sure we have a clear picture of the Biblical perspective." That's all they were doing, affirming the biblical perspective.

Over-reliance on what archaeology can prove has nothing to do with wanting factual evidence so that you can back up your claims. Think about it. You're digging in the dirt to find evidence of events that happened thousands of years ago. You're going to find objects, usually broken, and rubble, it takes a long time to find anything useful. And how are you supposed to prove historical events with random objects you find? It is very difficult. We're not just talking about biblical events, it is hard to prove any historical events from that time.

You are saying if there is no evidence then that's a good indication that the events never happened. That is an over-reliance on what archaeology can prove. It isn't as if the whole Earth has been perfectly excavated and we didn't find anything. It's the fact that only 2 percent of the archaeological sites have been meaningfully excavated and many sites have not been found yet. It's the fact that archaeology takes a long time, and just because we haven't found evidence yet of some biblical events doesn't mean you should ignore all of the evidence that has been found and go around saying "a lot of the bibles events did not happen and have been proven to have never happened" when not a single event of the Bible has been proven to have never happened. You showed me an article that suggests the Exodus may not have happened because there is no evidence that it did happen. That isn't proof that it didn't happen.

"Radio commentator Dennis Prager made an insightful comment about Rabbi Wolpe’s skepticism of the Exodus account noted earlier:

According to the [Los Angeles Times] article, most archaeologists...do not believe the Biblical Exodus occurred. That most archaeologists conclude from the alleged lack of archaeological evidence that Jews were never slaves in Egypt and the Exodus to Canaan never took place tells us something about these individuals, but nothing about the Bible or the Exodus."

"Scarch"

That isn't proof that it didn't happen.

i find this to be one of the most used arguments for why god exists or for why anything in the bible is plausible

provide proof for why it did most certainly happen or there will be doubt and eventually denial. it is not up to us to find proof, it is yours, the person who believes it, but you are happy to just have blind faith. us "scholars" are not so happy to do that

[Scarch]

TURTLE BASED WEAPONRY

"Scarch"

That isn't proof that it didn't happen.

i find this to be one of the most used arguments for why god exists or for why anything in the bible is plausible

provide proof for why it did most certainly happen or there will be doubt and eventually denial. it is not up to us to find proof, it is yours, the person who believes it, but you are happy to just have blind faith. us "scholars" are not so happy to do that

Well we're not talking about why God exists. You said events in the Bible were proven not to exist, so I asked you for proof, and you offered me an article which did not prove anything. Now you're demanding proof that it did happen? Well it just so happens that there is proof that the Exodus happened. An archaeologist found parts of Egyptian chariots in the gulf of Aqaba in the Red Sea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJXUv_btg60

[sodaburp]

Scarch

TURTLE BASED WEAPONRY

"Scarch"

That isn't proof that it didn't happen.

i find this to be one of the most used arguments for why god exists or for why anything in the bible is plausible

provide proof for why it did most certainly happen or there will be doubt and eventually denial. it is not up to us to find proof, it is yours, the person who believes it, but you are happy to just have blind faith. us "scholars" are not so happy to do that

Well we're not talking about why God exists. You said events in the Bible were proven not to exist, so I asked you for proof, and you offered me an article which did not prove anything. Now you're demanding proof that it did happen? Well it just so happens that there is proof that the Exodus happened. An archaeologist found parts of Egyptian chariots in the gulf of Aqaba in the Red Sea.

i'm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJXUv_btg60

i'm mostly just tired of this discussion because i'm always distracted when i reply lol

notice my replies were bigger before and are kind of short now dramallama i'm also not really putting much thought into them

i do think, though that the burden of proof lies on you and not me

[Amanda Gaider]

TURTLE BASED WEAPONRY

Scarch

TURTLE BASED WEAPONRY

"Scarch"

That isn't proof that it didn't happen.

i find this to be one of the most used arguments for why god exists or for why anything in the bible is plausible

provide proof for why it did most certainly happen or there will be doubt and eventually denial. it is not up to us to find proof, it is yours, the person who believes it, but you are happy to just have blind faith. us "scholars" are not so happy to do that

Well we're not talking about why God exists. You said events in the Bible were proven not to exist, so I asked you for proof, and you offered me an article which did not prove anything. Now you're demanding proof that it did happen? Well it just so happens that there is proof that the Exodus happened. An archaeologist found parts of Egyptian chariots in the gulf of Aqaba in the Red Sea.

i'm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJXUv_btg60

i'm mostly just tired of this discussion because i'm always distracted when i reply lol

notice my replies were bigger before and are kind of short now dramallama i'm also not really putting much thought into them

i do think, though that the burden of proof lies on you and not me
Normally I would be vigorously participating in this discussion, but I'll soon not only see a bunch of missed friends, but watch the lot of us kill people on the big screen.

[Scarch]

TURTLE BASED WEAPONRY

Scarch

TURTLE BASED WEAPONRY

"Scarch"

That isn't proof that it didn't happen.

i find this to be one of the most used arguments for why god exists or for why anything in the bible is plausible

provide proof for why it did most certainly happen or there will be doubt and eventually denial. it is not up to us to find proof, it is yours, the person who believes it, but you are happy to just have blind faith. us "scholars" are not so happy to do that

Well we're not talking about why God exists. You said events in the Bible were proven not to exist, so I asked you for proof, and you offered me an article which did not prove anything. Now you're demanding proof that it did happen? Well it just so happens that there is proof that the Exodus happened. An archaeologist found parts of Egyptian chariots in the gulf of Aqaba in the Red Sea.

i'm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJXUv_btg60

i'm mostly just tired of this discussion because i'm always distracted when i reply lol

notice my replies were bigger before and are kind of short now dramallama i'm also not really putting much thought into them

i do think, though that the burden of proof lies on you and not meWell you made a claim. That there was proof that biblical events didn't happen. So... I'm still waiting for that. Anyway, in the video I posted is actual underwater footage of chariot parts in the Red Sea. Archaeological evidence doesn't get any stronger than that. Watch the video whenever you get a chance, it doesn't beat around the bush, it gets right into it pretty quickly.

[SonoraSamurai]

Scarch

SaguaroDundee

Hah, so jesus really just decided to say "the torahs right, you're all actually ******** if you eat bacon"?

No I don't think he did, his interaction with the Torah is obviously aggrandized for church control. Nothing more. Jesus's only spoke of his god because he viewed everyone as a part of his god, every single creation of the creation as his God. Jesus is not the ONLY true God, mind you, his god was mearly the most loving and kind as seen through his ACTION. Gods act. The god inside you, how does it act? Does it act exactly like Jesus's god? I.E. the one that lead him through life, not the ones he agreed with. Does it act in spite each time someone brings the discoveries of scientific men? Or am I wrong and you accept many theories as the creation of your God?

so What about the God of You? Are you God, like Jesus?

No I am not God, or a god, and I don't know what you mean by theories as the creation of God. I believe the Bible, and that is my only source of knowledge of God.

Um... have you read the Bible?

Matthew 5:17-19
17 "'Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.'"

These are Jesus' words. Jesus also said, "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." -Matthew 15:11

If you read the book of Hebrews it will help you to understand the relation between Jesus and the Torah. But you should read the whole Bible, especially if you want to know what Jesus said and taught and how it relates to his fulfillment of the Torah. Which is not even to mention the historical significance as one of the oldest pieces of human literature.

No I refuse to read the Bible. One, because Jesus did not write it. And two, they were wrong about Jesus. and Three, wrote Jesus as the son of god to control Byzantine. No joke.

Jesus was a vessel of God, you have the same privilege of walking in his steps. I'd take it if I were you and claim yourself as you would claim Jesus. It would do your Godself a much more honorable existence. Jesus's needed no Bible to find God. Nor did he need a Torah. All Jesus needed to find God was the culture he lived in, his current time. Definitely he didn't find and place knowledge of his god on the Torah, that's pretty retarded. srry.

and I prefer ancient Asian Literature, and Polytheist ancient literature. Its much more entertaining and accurate to human experience.

[Skyway Corsair]

SaguaroDundee

Scarch

SaguaroDundee

Hah, so jesus really just decided to say "the torahs right, you're all actually ******** if you eat bacon"?

No I don't think he did, his interaction with the Torah is obviously aggrandized for church control. Nothing more. Jesus's only spoke of his god because he viewed everyone as a part of his god, every single creation of the creation as his God. Jesus is not the ONLY true God, mind you, his god was mearly the most loving and kind as seen through his ACTION. Gods act. The god inside you, how does it act? Does it act exactly like Jesus's god? I.E. the one that lead him through life, not the ones he agreed with. Does it act in spite each time someone brings the discoveries of scientific men? Or am I wrong and you accept many theories as the creation of your God?

so What about the God of You? Are you God, like Jesus?

No I am not God, or a god, and I don't know what you mean by theories as the creation of God. I believe the Bible, and that is my only source of knowledge of God.

Um... have you read the Bible?

Matthew 5:17-19
17 "'Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.'"

These are Jesus' words. Jesus also said, "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." -Matthew 15:11

If you read the book of Hebrews it will help you to understand the relation between Jesus and the Torah. But you should read the whole Bible, especially if you want to know what Jesus said and taught and how it relates to his fulfillment of the Torah. Which is not even to mention the historical significance as one of the oldest pieces of human literature.

No I refuse to read the Bible. One, because Jesus did not write it. And two, they were wrong about Jesus. and Three, wrote Jesus as the son of god to control Byzantine. No joke.

Jesus was a vessel of God, you have the same privilege of walking in his steps. I'd take it if I were you and claim yourself as you would claim Jesus. It would do your Godself a much more honorable existence. Jesus's needed no Bible to find God. Nor did he need a Torah. All Jesus needed to find God was the culture he lived in, his current time. Definitely he didn't find and place knowledge of his god on the Torah, that's pretty retarded. srry.

and I prefer ancient Asian Literature, and Polytheist ancient literature. Its much more entertaining and accurate to human experience.

I have a hard time believing that the current bible is the same as when it was first written anyway, given all the corrupt and oppressive powerful figures who could have changed it.

[Amanda Gaider]

SaguaroDundee

Scarch

SaguaroDundee

Hah, so jesus really just decided to say "the torahs right, you're all actually ******** if you eat bacon"?

No I don't think he did, his interaction with the Torah is obviously aggrandized for church control. Nothing more. Jesus's only spoke of his god because he viewed everyone as a part of his god, every single creation of the creation as his God. Jesus is not the ONLY true God, mind you, his god was mearly the most loving and kind as seen through his ACTION. Gods act. The god inside you, how does it act? Does it act exactly like Jesus's god? I.E. the one that lead him through life, not the ones he agreed with. Does it act in spite each time someone brings the discoveries of scientific men? Or am I wrong and you accept many theories as the creation of your God?

so What about the God of You? Are you God, like Jesus?

No I am not God, or a god, and I don't know what you mean by theories as the creation of God. I believe the Bible, and that is my only source of knowledge of God.

Um... have you read the Bible?

Matthew 5:17-19
17 "'Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.'"

These are Jesus' words. Jesus also said, "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." -Matthew 15:11

If you read the book of Hebrews it will help you to understand the relation between Jesus and the Torah. But you should read the whole Bible, especially if you want to know what Jesus said and taught and how it relates to his fulfillment of the Torah. Which is not even to mention the historical significance as one of the oldest pieces of human literature.

No I refuse to read the Bible. One, because Jesus did not write it. And two, they were wrong about Jesus. and Three, wrote Jesus as the son of god to control Byzantine. No joke.

Jesus was a vessel of God, you have the same privilege of walking in his steps. I'd take it if I were you and claim yourself as you would claim Jesus. It would do your Godself a much more honorable existence. Jesus's needed no Bible to find God. Nor did he need a Torah. All Jesus needed to find God was the culture he lived in, his current time. Definitely he didn't find and place knowledge of his god on the Torah, that's pretty retarded. srry.

and I prefer ancient Asian Literature, and Polytheist ancient literature. Its much more entertaining and accurate to human experience.

I like me some ancient Near-Eastern s**t.