Let's have a srs discussion about the Equalist movement.

How will the first season end?

Korra kills Amon and the second season is about the repercussions this has	14.3%	[ 17 ]
Peacefully; Korra learns the airbender way and makes peace with the Equalists, coming to a compromise and everybody's happy	16.0%	[ 19 ]
"I MUST FIGHT THE BENDERS!" "No, equalists. You are the benders." And the equalists were benders.	13.4%	[ 16 ]
Amon has a hidden agenda, Korra defeats him, everyone is happy.	41.2%	[ 49 ]
Other (please post)	15.1%	[ 18 ]
Total Votes:			[ 119 ]

[Miss-dark8607]

W4NT0N 50UP

I badly want the Equalists to be portrayed sympathetically. They have excellent reasons to hate and fear benders, not just because quite a few of them are huge bastards and started wars and are generally able to get what they want because they'll always have the threat of beating them up, but because they just dominate their entire lives. The police are almost entirely benders, the Council looks to be made up mostly of benders, the factories must be almost entirely employ them, and even pro-bending is such a huge part of their entertainment culture. It might be a "republic" but when benders, who probably aren't even a third of the population, are the ones who make up a large part of their political and judicial system, it's easy to see why non-benders feel so oppressed by them. I know benders can't help being who they are but they can help give non-benders more representation in the public sphere.

Also one thing I really, really love about the Equalists is that you don't know who they are. The Fire Nation Army wasn't scary at all no matter how pointy their helmets were but Equalists are ******** terrifying because they could be literally anyone. It's a legion of more-or-less ordinary people who spend their days being average and their nights training to kick a** and rebel. In another story they'd be the heroes, fighting against a tyrannical powered elite armed with just gumption and electroprods.

As for Amon, I hope he's a good man (for a given value of "good") who's just a very "ends justifies the means" type. I hated Ozai as an antagonist in A:TLA because he was just so boring as a villain and no amount of Mark Hamill could make me like him so I hope Amon isn't anything like him. And whatever kind of villain Amon turns out to be, I just hope he's ruthlessly crazy motivated.

[W4NT0N 50UP]

Suicidesoldier#1

Judging an entire group of people based on a few arbitrary qualities, based on isolated individuals...

No, the equalists are wrong.


If they truly wanted to be equal they'd try to give bending to everyone, not take it away.

Sheesh.

The Equalists are not judging benders on isolated individuals, they're judging whole gangs of individuals who regularly trash their neighbourhoods, who have exclusive employment opportunities, who make up the entire police force, who appear to be a significant part of the government, or who are just a constant threat because they can, if they feel like it, burn their faces off. Benders aren't inherently bad people, obviously, but they are significantly favored in all aspects of life and it doesn't have to be that way. And I don't support the way the Equalists are carrying out their mission, I'm just saying they have good reasons for it and that I empathize with that.

Equalists have no idea how to give bending to everyone, but they do know how to remove it. Rather than work on something that they have no idea how to implement, if it's even possible, they're dealing with a more concrete, immediate solution. In any case I'm sure a lot of Equalists see bending itself as the problem, as opposed to the abuse of bending. Power corrupts and all that.

I know it's impossible to make you understand anything because the point always flies so far over your head it might as well be a satellite so consider this the only response you'll get from me unless you can come up with an argument that's not, "But most benders are nice people/They're born that way/Equalists are just jealous".

[Suicidesoldier#1]

W4NT0N 50UP

Suicidesoldier#1

Judging an entire group of people based on a few arbitrary qualities, based on isolated individuals...

No, the equalists are wrong.


If they truly wanted to be equal they'd try to give bending to everyone, not take it away.

Sheesh.

The Equalists are not judging benders on isolated individuals, they're judging whole gangs of individuals who regularly trash their neighbourhoods, who have exclusive employment opportunities, who make up the entire police force, who appear to be a significant part of the government, or who are just a constant threat because they can, if they feel like it, burn their faces off. Benders aren't inherently bad people, obviously, but they are significantly favored in all aspects of life and it doesn't have to be that way. And I don't support the way the Equalists are carrying out their mission, I'm just saying they have good reasons for it and that I empathize with that.

Equalists have no idea how to give bending to everyone, but they do know how to remove it. Rather than work on something that they have no idea how to implement, if it's even possible, they're dealing with a more concrete, immediate solution. In any case I'm sure a lot of Equalists see bending itself as the problem, as opposed to the abuse of bending. Power corrupts and all that.

I know it's impossible to make you understand anything because the point always flies so far over your head it might as well be a satellite so consider this the only response you'll get from me unless you can come up with an argument that's not, "But most benders are nice people/They're born that way/Equalists are just jealous".

No, I completely understand, but they are completely wrong.

It's like blaming the Jews for being the bankers, or blaming anyone group.


The insane problem is it's like wanting to pour acid on a pretty girls face just becuase she's prettier than you.

Except that it's like wanting to lobotomize a Doctor even though they put 8 years worth of work into being one.


Except that anyone can be a bender and it's a spiritual thing so wanting to take away someone's hard earned capacity is just horrendous- it's like wanting to smash a kid's sand castle or an ice sculpture just because they worked hard and did a better job than you, the mentally is absolutely abhorrent, how can anyone think that way?

It's not only insane it's horrific and psychopathic, there's no doubt about it.


Group blaming is a horrible problem, it's not all benders it's only some.

To blame a group is literally absolutely insane- and those who fail to see the potential of having such great people around, such as benders to power s**t like those electric people, are just stupid.


I emphasize with these people I just don't sympathize.

It's one thing if you want to be able to fly and have magic powers- I understand that, awesome. It's another if you're too stupid to realize that anyone could get those powers. But to to want to take someone elses power away just becuase you don't have them? It's an absolutely horrible ideology. Even worse, these people WORKED for their abilities, it's just the most horrible thing ever, it's just a bunch of insecure people trying to play bully. They're upset at people just for being good at things. It makes no sense at all.

[sole to soul]

Suicidesoldier#1

Except that anyone can be a bender

Suicidesoldier#1

It's another if you're too stupid to realize that anyone could get those powers.

You seem to be severely misinformed, sir. Bending isn't a talent, it's an ability. You're either born with it or you're not.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

sole to soul

Suicidesoldier#1

Except that anyone can be a bender

Suicidesoldier#1

It's another if you're too stupid to realize that anyone could get those powers.

You seem to be severely misinformed, sir. Bending isn't a talent, it's an ability. You're either born with it or you're not.

...

It's spiritual, you can learn it. The creators of the show have confirmed this.

[sole to soul]

Suicidesoldier#1

sole to soul

Suicidesoldier#1

Except that anyone can be a bender

Suicidesoldier#1

It's another if you're too stupid to realize that anyone could get those powers.

You seem to be severely misinformed, sir. Bending isn't a talent, it's an ability. You're either born with it or you're not.

...

It's spiritual, you can learn it. The creators of the show have confirmed this.

Source?

[Suicidesoldier#1]

sole to soul

Suicidesoldier#1

sole to soul

Suicidesoldier#1

Except that anyone can be a bender

Suicidesoldier#1

It's another if you're too stupid to realize that anyone could get those powers.

You seem to be severely misinformed, sir. Bending isn't a talent, it's an ability. You're either born with it or you're not.

...

It's spiritual, you can learn it. The creators of the show have confirmed this.

Source?

Quote:

I mean we've definitely talked about it. I think, again, sometimes we might not know...it's more of what we don't want it to be. We didn't want it to be like there is a lineage...a royal family or something...and these people can bend and then there's everyone else as non-bending, people who never will. Some sort of caste system. Mike and I are more attracted to more of the flux type universe. The only constant is change, variation, that sorta thing. I'm sure it's a bunch of factors.

[W4NT0N 50UP]

Suicidesoldier#1

Except that anyone can be a bender and it's a spiritual thing so wanting to take away someone's hard earned capacity is just horrendous

Wrong. Bryke explicitly stated bending is at least partly genetic. Your whole argument hinges on the idea that bending can be learned when it's more of a talent, the same way people can pick up art or sports better than others, and not everyone gets a chance to develop those talents, if they have them at all.

If you want you can sort of compare it to beauty in that being beautiful gives some people a natural (or not, since maintaining that beauty is a luxury not many can afford) advantage over others, and while it is wrong to want to scar that beauty it is perfectly valid to acknowledge that they do have an unfair advantage and that something should be done to make things more equal, like by demanding job interviews have screens. Like I said, I don't like the way the Equalists are doing things. I do however agree that there is a large power imbalance between non-benders and benders and it's primarily the fault of benders for creating it and maintaining it.

All of your analogies assume that the person in question is innocent, which not all benders are. If you want a fair comparison, it would be like firing all the doctors in a hospital because a significant number of them have been sued for malpractice. Is it fair to the doctors who have been on the straight and narrow? No. Does it keep the patients safer? Arguably, yes. And they're complicit in the illegal activities of their colleagues so it's not like they're squeaky-clean either.

This is not a clear-cut issue where you can say, "These people are wrong" or "These people are right". Cherish that. You don't get a lot of these morally ambiguous questions in any series, it takes the fun and nuance out of watching it if you say, "All these people are mean and insane regardless of their reasons".

And benders are not nearly so helpful as you'd think, after all we came up with our own ways of generating electricity and the Internet without some assholes who could fling boulders thanks.

[sole to soul]

Suicidesoldier#1

sole to soul

Suicidesoldier#1

sole to soul

Suicidesoldier#1

Except that anyone can be a bender

Suicidesoldier#1

It's another if you're too stupid to realize that anyone could get those powers.

You seem to be severely misinformed, sir. Bending isn't a talent, it's an ability. You're either born with it or you're not.

...

It's spiritual, you can learn it. The creators of the show have confirmed this.

Source?

Quote:

I mean we've definitely talked about it. I think, again, sometimes we might not know...it's more of what we don't want it to be. We didn't want it to be like there is a lineage...a royal family or something...and these people can bend and then there's everyone else as non-bending, people who never will. Some sort of caste system. Mike and I are more attracted to more of the flux type universe. The only constant is change, variation, that sorta thing. I'm sure it's a bunch of factors.

It sounds more like the creators were blowing smoke out of their asses because they didn't know for sure what they wanted. The entire conversation is like that. They even say they're not sure about it. .___.; The impression I always got from watching the show is that it came from genetics. (I don't really ever read interviews like this.)

Anyway, even though I stand corrected on the talent versus ability thing, they did still say it was based on genes, and not everyone would have the aptitude for it. "Some genetic basis for potential" doesn't mean "LOL everyone can bend!" Some people have the potential to become great benders, some will be very limited, and some still won't be able to bend at all.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

sole to soul

Suicidesoldier#1

sole to soul

Suicidesoldier#1

sole to soul

You seem to be severely misinformed, sir. Bending isn't a talent, it's an ability. You're either born with it or you're not.

...

It's spiritual, you can learn it. The creators of the show have confirmed this.

Source?

Quote:

I mean we've definitely talked about it. I think, again, sometimes we might not know...it's more of what we don't want it to be. We didn't want it to be like there is a lineage...a royal family or something...and these people can bend and then there's everyone else as non-bending, people who never will. Some sort of caste system. Mike and I are more attracted to more of the flux type universe. The only constant is change, variation, that sorta thing. I'm sure it's a bunch of factors.

It sounds more like the creators were blowing smoke out of their asses because they didn't know for sure what they wanted. The entire conversation is like that. They even say they're not sure about it. .___.; The impression I always got from watching the show is that it came from genetics. (I don't really ever read interviews like this.)

Anyway, even though I stand corrected on the talent versus ability thing, they did still say it was based on genes, and not everyone would have the aptitude for it. "Some genetic basis for potential" doesn't mean "LOL everyone can bend!" Some people have the potential to become great benders, some will be very limited, and some still won't be able to bend at all.

That's what you believe.

The creators explicitly went out of their way to make it so that spirit, was the point.


Anyone can learn to bend, but some may be better than others and that may just be the way it is.

No-one can deny the natural prodigious talents of being the avatar, for example.


But!

All the air nomads learned how to, so it's likely it's culture and training and exposure as a child, and less of just being born awesome.

[sole to soul]

Suicidesoldier#1

That's what you believe.

The creators explicitly went out of their way to make it so that spirit, was the point.


Anyone can learn to bend, but some may be better than others and that may just be the way it is.

No-one can deny the natural prodigious talents of being the avatar, for example.


But!

All the air nomads learned how to, so it's likely it's culture and training and exposure as a child, and less of just being born awesome.

No, it's what the creators said in the very article you linked me to. They didn't say that everyone could learn it. They said there was some genetic basis for potential. Not everyone inherits the genes, so not everyone can learn to bend. You really need a stronger source if you want me to agree with you.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

W4NT0N 50UP

Suicidesoldier#1

Except that anyone can be a bender and it's a spiritual thing so wanting to take away someone's hard earned capacity is just horrendous

Wrong. Bryke explicitly stated bending is at least partly genetic. Your whole argument hinges on the idea that bending can be learned when it's more of a talent, the same way people can pick up art or sports better than others, and not everyone gets a chance to develop those talents, if they have them at all.

If you want you can sort of compare it to beauty in that being beautiful gives some people a natural (or not, since maintaining that beauty is a luxury not many can afford) advantage over others, and while it is wrong to want to scar that beauty it is perfectly valid to acknowledge that they do have an unfair advantage and that something should be done to make things more equal, like by demanding job interviews have screens. Like I said, I don't like the way the Equalists are doing things. I do however agree that there is a large power imbalance between non-benders and benders and it's primarily the fault of benders for creating it and maintaining it.

All of your analogies assume that the person in question innocent, which not all benders are. If you want a fair comparison, it would be like firing all the doctors in a hospital because a significant number of them have been sued for malpractice. Is it fair to the doctors who have been on the straight and narrow? No. Does it keep the patients safer? Arguably, yes. And they're complicit in the illegal activities of their colleagues so it's not like they're squeaky-clean either.

This is not a clear-cut issue where you can say, "These people are wrong" or "These people are right". Cherish that. You don't get a lot of these morally ambiguous questions in any series, it takes the fun and nuance out of watching it if you say, "All these people are mean and insane regardless of their reasons".

And benders are not nearly so helpful as you'd think, after all we came up with our own ways of generating electricity and the Internet without some assholes who could fling boulders thanks.

No, all my analogies assume that the person is simply good. You hate someone for being good, not for being mean or for a choice they made that's bad, simply for being good on their own, and are Jealous of it, or whatever.

Which is absolutely terrible- you believe there should be screens for job auditions? For God's sakes.


You people are messed up in the head.

Everyone is equal, being different doesn't change that, your perception of good has no bearing on this.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

sole to soul

Suicidesoldier#1

That's what you believe.

The creators explicitly went out of their way to make it so that spirit, was the point.


Anyone can learn to bend, but some may be better than others and that may just be the way it is.

No-one can deny the natural prodigious talents of being the avatar, for example.


But!

All the air nomads learned how to, so it's likely it's culture and training and exposure as a child, and less of just being born awesome.

No, it's what the creators said in the very article you linked me to. They didn't say that everyone could learn it. They said there was some genetic basis for potential. Not everyone inherits the genes, so not everyone can learn to bend. You really need a stronger source if you want me to agree with you.

Some genetic basis for potential does not translate to "Some people can't learn it."

It means that some people will naturally be better than others.


BUT!

"You have some genetic basis for potential, but you could go your whole life without developing the talent into ability. Some people have more inherent talent than others, while others with minimal inherent talent can still develop it through hard work and practice. He reiterated a connection to the spiritual energies is the underlying basis. How it manifests is based on upbringing and experience."

[W4NT0N 50UP]

Suicidesoldier#1

That's what you believe.

The creators explicitly went out of their way to make it so that spirit, was the point.

***Interviewers note: About 20 mins after the interview, Bryan came back to me and we spoke a little more about the basis of bending off recorder. He described bending as more of a talent. You have some genetic basis for potential, but you could go your whole life without developing the talent into ability.

So no, it's not "just what we believe". Genetics have some role to play in your potential to bend, and out of that potential only some people will actually be able to do it effectively. And this is assuming they have someone around to train them, that that training is free if the bender-in-training can't afford lessons, and that they have time to learn something that is actually completely unnecessary except for fighting people, among a million other personal factors.

Besides, you're even acknowledging that culture has a hand in this so really, not everyone can bend.

[Suicidesoldier#1]

W4NT0N 50UP

Suicidesoldier#1

That's what you believe.

The creators explicitly went out of their way to make it so that spirit, was the point.

***Interviewers note: About 20 mins after the interview, Bryan came back to me and we spoke a little more about the basis of bending off recorder. He described bending as more of a talent. You have some genetic basis for potential, but you could go your whole life without developing the talent into ability.

So no, it's not "just what we believe". Genetics have some role to play in your potential to bend, and out of that potential only some people will actually be able to do it effectively. And this is assuming they have someone around to train them, that that training is free, and that they time to learn something that is actually completely unnecessary except for fighting people, among a million other personal factors.

Besides, you're even acknowledging that culture has a hand in this so really, not everyone can bend.

We always have liked the idea of who will be a bender and who won't be to be kind of an ambiguous mystery, even to the people in the Avatar world. From early on we thought the Air Nomads would be all benders. Again it's like Mike was saying, it's more of a spiritual connection. But they have...they had...the smallest population. Earth Kingdom has the biggest population but the smallest percentage of benders. So yeah, there were these notions we kicked around that is wasn't going to be regimented or ruled through specific lineages. We liked the idea that each of the cultures have a different spiritual vantage point...coming at it from a different angle.