If you disagree, could you please stop writing like wankers and justify your reasoning? -- preferably with some evidence and not just "I'M RIGHTER THAN PSYCHOLOGY AND IF YOU DISAGREE YOU'RE WRONG LOLZ".I have edited this post to provide some clarification as to my motives. I'll provide a link to the old version in a short while. Firstly, an introduction: the first post has been edited to be more succinct; it now covers more fully both why I feel these ideas are wrong and the effect that they have on a potential suicide. This means that it is now slightly longer, and it is thus even more important that you
DO NOT QUOTE THE ENTIRE FIRST POST! Thankyou.
If you can't be bothered to read the whole post, you might want to skip to the first post summary, on
this page.
David L. Conroy, PhD
No scientific study has ever confirmed that a significant proportion of suicidal people have these qualities.
I would like to address the consensus that those who consider or attempt suicide are weak, cowardly and selfish; that they don't care about how much they hurt those they leave behind and that the fact that they have attempted suicide shows that they are 'inferior'.
These ideas are the result of hundreds of years of social stigma and misunderstanding. A person may even have been through depression and attempted or contemplated suicide and still believe that they are correct.
David L. Conroy, PhD
Much of the content of depressive rumination -- "I'm no good, I'm stupid, I'm a failure, I'm weak, I don't have enough will power," -- is simply the reflexive response of internalized stigma. Stigma causes us to inflict pain upon ourselves and deters us from seeking help.
The effect of the image of a suicidal person as 'weak', 'selfish' and 'cowardly' on people suffering with depression and struggling with suicidal tendancies is profound. Use of negative adjectives like 'weak' or 'selfish' has an exacerbating effect on the condition of depression -- the root problem. It erodes self-esteem and builds up an image of the self as useless and dispensable: exactly the kind of self-image that leads one to believe that suicide is 'okay' and a viable option. If you are saying these things to prevent people from commiting suicide then you are making a large contribution to the opposite effect.
Not only that, stigma leads the person suffering with depression to feel isolated and misunderstood. In their world, they now have nowhere to turn for help: maybe people they've asked for help have called them 'weak' or 'selfish', either way, it encourages the idea that nobody can understand, and if nobody can understand then nobody can help. This cultivates a mindset in which suicide is now the only option.
David L. Conroy, PhD
Many of us have been told, "Your problems aren't that bad. They don't add up to suicide," or, "If you only took 15 pills, you weren't really serious." [...] No one outside of us, nor we ourselves, can accurately determine our risk for dying by suicide. It cannot be determined on the basis of attempts we have or have not made, and it cannot be determined by totaling up the number of our warning sign conditions.
The main problem with the usage of the words 'weak' and 'cowardly' with regards to suicide is that they judge the depressive on an absolute scale with people who deal with pain differently, people in different situations and people who are looking at the world functionally. Suicide is not about what has happened to someone, it is the depressive's response to extreme pain, especially when they have run out of healthy coping mechanisms. Something which may seem trivial to others, when in context, can cause immense pain to someone with different priorities, expectations, experiences and methods of coping with change or let down. It isn't fair to judge 'strength' with regards to emotional pain on an absolute scale; it doesn't do justice to those with
mental illnesses such as depression who are no longer in the same position as others.
The major problem with usage of the word 'selfish' is that it assumes that the suicide is thinking only of themself and of their pain. This is often not the case; many depressives feel that their existance is causing pain, more pain than their death would cause. Being told that they are 'weak' and 'selfish' cultivates a negative self-image, driving them to believe that their loved ones are "better off" without them and that suicide is ultimately altruistic. An act cannot be selfish if it is altruistically motivated.
LinksHere are the links from which I provided the quotes.
If you're depressed or suicidal, you might want to consider checking the following guilds out:
Finally, this is a guild for survivors of abuse:
BlacklistedI never, ever saw myself doing this, but for the first time since this thread was created in December 2004, I have a reason to blacklist someone.
Username: Metalllama
Reason:
suicide encouragementDate: 11/02/2006
I feel really sad.
Let's put the "Extended" in "Extended Discussion"!So, is suicide yet a selfish, weak and cowardly act or is it excusable?
What is your opinion on suicide and is suicide ever acceptable?
Is suicide a valid response to trauma or pain?
How should you cope with a person who claims to be suicidal?
What are your [genuine!] experiences with suicide/depression?
Do you ever think that you may only be calling somebody an attention whore as a result of your social indoctrination?
What can be done to remove the stigma surrounding suicide and depression in our society?