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 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:52 am
I wanted to thank, um... Winged Isis, I think, for posting this thread about adoption statistics: http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=8625867Which I just now saw. Very interesting. They are a few years old, but I'm going to assume that the numbers haven't changed much. I'm too lazy to post the links from the original thread. *wink*
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:06 am
Now we just need to get the word out. 3nodding
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:07 am
I understand that adoption isn't a perfec system, but... I also notice a lot of choicers using it's flaws to justify abortion...
How is being dead better than being in a crappy system? And how can anyone make that choice for anyone else?
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:54 pm
divineseraph How is being dead better than being in a crappy system? And how can anyone make that choice for anyone else? As I've said, if it's okay to decide for other people, and death is definitely better than a crappy life, let's nuke Darfur. "Oh, but they're people, killing people is wrong..." I say a fetus is a person, you say it's not. You and I say Africans are people, I can show you entire international organisations who say they're not. Because of the nature of the word, NOBODY is right. How about we just say killing humans is wrong, eh?
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:44 am
As I've said before, and really it doesn't have much to do with statistics and all that, I'm completely for adoption. It's not the greatest system, but it's better than killing off your children.
As I've also said before, I'm however a bit biased because my boyfriend was adopted.
Now we just have to get rid of the social concept that teenage parents are horrible parents and shouldn't be allowed to have children, etc.
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:26 am
Well... teenage parents are less likely to be prepared for a child... I think there should be more incentive to put a child into adoption though, rather than kill them. Like, for example, having the medical bills for the hospital taken care of entirely. Because choicers often argue that abortion is less expensive, and that teenage mothers cannot get enough money to both have a baby and raise it. So if the medical aspect was taken care of, that argument would be destroyed. And with adoption as an option, a teenage mother raising a child would be a matter of choice wink And even if they give their child up for adoption, the person who adopts that child will be prepared for a child.
I think it should be easier to adopt though, and some of the rules should be changed. Like that 30-day period in which the birthmother can change her mind... I know a woman who was adopting a baby, she had a nursery ad everything set up...and a few days after she adopted the baby, the mother came and took it back. That's bull s**t, honestly. That is like stealing her baby, biology has nothing to do with it in my eyes.
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:21 pm
My sister's girlfriend (and one of her two brothers) was adopted. She's still Pro-Choice.
I don't think that there is anything wrong with choosing adoption. And I think that Open Adoption is a good solution, which allows the adoptive parent or parents to pay for the medical expenses of the pregnant woman, and allows the biological mother or parents to form agreements that lets them know their biological child, and also keeps the child out of the mess that is the current US adoption system.
However, there are always going to be women who just do not want to be pregnant. Because they own their bodies, and thus have the right to deny use of their bodies to any other humans, I feel that abortion has to be a legal choice until something like fetal transplant surgery or artificial wombs are available.
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:28 pm
divineseraph I understand that adoption isn't a perfec system, but... I also notice a lot of choicers using it's flaws to justify abortion... I was under the impression (though I admit, I could be mistaken on motives here) that the flaws of the adoption system were only brought up when someone said something like: RandomProLifer And if someone doesn't want a baby, they can just give it up for adoption. There are plenty of childless couples that would love to adopt a baby. (Note: I paraphrased that. And I made up the name. If anyone has that Screen Name, I'm sorry that it sounds like I'm putting words in your mouth - that wasn't my intention) And so many Pro-Choicers would say something (or quote someone saying something) about the problems with the US adoption system. To show that there are reasons why women might choose not to continue a pregnancy and give the resulting child up for adoption. At least, that is the only reason I ever bring up the adoption system in a debate about abortion. I suppose that other Pro-Choicers might have completely different reasons for doing so. I can really only speak for myself, but I guess I tend to assume that other Pro-Choicers believe similarly on this particular issue (which is not always the case, I know).
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:10 pm
I always thought that adoption is a great idea.
It may not be the best life for every child but an imperfect life is better then no life at all.
Many people do get adopted into nice, caring families so not all of them live horrible lives plus they can choose for themselfs what they think of it when they are older and work on making a better life for themselfs if they are alive.
Nobodies life is perfect, everybody has their ups and downs so how do people know that kids that are givin up for adoption would be miserable or not or won't find a good family? At least then they might actually have a chance to be happy and well cared for.
Some even allow you to choose the family you would want to adopt the kid.
I think if people donated just alittle bit of money to help fix the system, maybe things will start to improve.
We need to improve living conditions for families and give people more options (like get some jobs and school to agree to have a small daycare to help working moms/young student that have kids so they can still earn money and study).
Stuff like that might help limit the amount of women getting abortions.
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:23 am
sachiko_sohma Some even allow you to choose the family you would want to adopt the kid. I think you are talking about Open Adoption. I believe in most states that these are done through different agencies than, uh...Closed Adoption (I guess - what else would you call it?). sachiko_sohma I think if people donated just alittle bit of money to help fix the system, maybe things will start to improve. We need to improve living conditions for families and give people more options (like get some jobs and school to agree to have a small daycare to help working moms/young student that have kids so they can still earn money and study). Stuff like that might help limit the amount of women getting abortions. I don't know if this is a problem that can be solved by just throwing money at it. Though I do agree that helping adoptive and foster families out more would be a good thing (and non-adoptive families that need the help, for that matter).
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Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:24 pm
WatersMoon110 sachiko_sohma Some even allow you to choose the family you would want to adopt the kid. I think you are talking about Open Adoption. I believe in most states that these are done through different agencies than, uh...Closed Adoption (I guess - what else would you call it?). sachiko_sohma I think if people donated just alittle bit of money to help fix the system, maybe things will start to improve. We need to improve living conditions for families and give people more options (like get some jobs and school to agree to have a small daycare to help working moms/young student that have kids so they can still earn money and study). Stuff like that might help limit the amount of women getting abortions. I don't know if this is a problem that can be solved by just throwing money at it. Though I do agree that helping adoptive and foster families out more would be a good thing (and non-adoptive families that need the help, for that matter). Yes I know that is open adoption and it's done differently then closed adoption (it's still part of adoption and one of the many options out there). I ment maybe a bit of money to help with up the system and fix some of the problems the system might have and as for non-adoptive and adoptive families, I suggested that more jobs and schools set up daycares so they can watch the kids while the parents(parent) work and study. Many people said that they abort cause they want to go to work or school, that can help with one of the problems. It won't solve all the problems but every little bit helps.
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:11 am
Honestly, I think the whole system needs to be re-worked. There are too many bullshit laws which restrict people from doing GOOD things. Too many restrictions on things that help people and none on things that kill them. ******** up priorities.
As in, cures for erectile dysfunction, but not aids or cancer. Or legal abortion and war, but illegal defense of your home by shooting someone who breaks in. Illegal marijuana, but legal alcohol. Forced akward wording for people who aren't white, but still a system which places you based on the color of your skin.
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:20 am
divineseraph Honestly, I think the whole system needs to be re-worked. There are too many bullshit laws which restrict people from doing GOOD things. Too many restrictions on things that help people and none on things that kill them. ******** up priorities. As in, cures for erectile dysfunction, but not aids or cancer. Or legal abortion and war, but illegal defense of your home by shooting someone who breaks in. Illegal marijuana, but legal alcohol. Forced akward wording for people who aren't white, but still a system which places you based on the color of your skin. Yes the world is one messed up place and only seems to be getting worse.
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:04 pm
sachiko_sohma Many people said that they abort cause they want to go to work or school, that can help with one of the problems. It won't solve all the problems but every little bit helps. Well, being pregnant can interfere with school and work. Pregnancy is tough on the woman, especially in later months. That's why women usually take maternity leaves.
If you're going to college or are living alone and relying on only your income, taking a leave is pretty much out of the question.
It's not just being a parent that causes school/work problems, it's the pregnancy itself.
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:14 pm
Tyshia2 Well, being pregnant can interfere with school and work. Pregnancy is tough on the woman, especially in later months. That's why women usually take maternity leaves.
If you're going to college or are living alone and relying on only your income, taking a leave is pretty much out of the question.
It's not just being a parent that causes school/work problems, it's the pregnancy itself. That is true, though colleges will allow up to year off, with no loss of financial aid. Though there is, of course, the problem of finding somewhere to live and food during that time. Are you a Name Change or a New Member? I don't recognize the name, color, or avatar.
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