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 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:07 pm
This is slightly similar to the last topic I made in teh Discussion forum about suicide. This is made more out of curiosity than want to argue, but arguement will come as a result.
So, to my question, and this is working on an assumption of belief that not all of you may subscribe, so don't bug me about that. I've seen several mention Hell being just a complete lack of God. Being an atheist, I don't feel any connection with God in the first place, so why should I fear Hell? What does god bring to me, that I can't provied for myself? In other words, how does the presence of God, make Earth better than Hell.
Remember, this is working on the assumption that Hell is the absence of God. If this is not true, feel free to respond as well, but bear in mind the assumption I previously stated.
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:11 pm
I've met several people who answered that question by saying that earth was Hell, in which case I can't say I mind it too much.
I would like to see how some people in this guild answer this one, though.
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:28 pm
Hell is more than mere seperation from God.
Seperation from God is what screws with the Angels heads the most, but basically your in hell, where there is weeping and gnating of teeth, which illudes to pain. And lots of it.
There have be accounts, and vision of hell, which all seem very similiar, and even match up with one account in the appocrifa (wouldn't count much of this as solid standable scripture as it the appocrifa)
Anyway, your in hell with a whole lot of fallen angels, which have been deformed and lack a lot of symetry (apart of the fall and curse) they hate you for you are God love, he gave you more chances than he gave them, Thus they hurt you, you still feel pain but won't die, you don't bleed either, there no blood or water or liquid in hell according to the appocrifa and most visions, your always partched, and you feel like your always on burning, which is often described as not physically burning, like you don't feel flames but you have the pain of burning, all the time.
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:00 am
Interesting, it sounds quite unpleasant. Why doesn't God get rid of Hell?
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:43 am
I too believe it's a seperation of God, but to answer your question about being an athiets... the way I see it, whether or not you believe in God, God is still active in your life. I can't say how or in what way but once you die, and if you end up in hell, I imagine that there would be a distinct and noticable change. I imgaine there would be an extream emptiness as well.
That's just what I think, so there ya go.
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:54 pm
Red... good color on the topic of Hell.
Back to the discussion. You ask why God doesn't just get rid of Hell. The only reasonable ideas I've heard are these:
For there to be a place where you are always with God, there has to be a place where you are completely without Him. At least, that's what I gathered from a sermon I heard.
And secondly, God can do everything, but that doesn't mean He will.
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:46 pm
A Different Light Interesting, it sounds quite unpleasant. Why doesn't God get rid of Hell? To fuffil the law of constants, sin = death = hell. Although hell was never intended for you or me, it was intended for Satan and his minions, see, God has seperated himself from darkness, God is pure becuase he doesn't allow any evil into him. thus evil can not live along side him. Thus if you're a sinner, you can not be in heaven, becuase you are a sinner. And the earth will fade away as stated in revelations and a new earth and a new heaven will be created, thus, hell must exist for if you are a sinner you can not dwell in the new heaven thus hell is the only opition.
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:14 pm
I've got quite few things to say. First, Liz, I guess I understand your thoughts on the surface, but they're highly inspecific. Like what kind of things will I be missing? Creativity? Wonder? Hope? Just to clarify is all.
Aroarra, I don't follow your logic at all. It really proves nothing. I guess that's all i really have to say there.
Type Text, I have a proposal that doesn't involve me being tortured for eternity. God, being omnipotent, destroys Satan and his minions, which sort of gets rid of Hell. Then, instead of going to Hell, I just walk earth as a ghost and freak people out. Thus, I can be evil on earth, and God can have you and your pure friends in Heaven.
Why does god like to torture me? Because it sure looks like that's his goal.
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:21 pm
Type Text Here A Different Light Interesting, it sounds quite unpleasant. Why doesn't God get rid of Hell? To fuffil the law of constants, sin = death = hell. Although hell was never intended for you or me, it was intended for Satan and his minions, see, God has seperated himself from darkness, God is pure becuase he doesn't allow any evil into him. thus evil can not live along side him. Thus if you're a sinner, you can not be in heaven, becuase you are a sinner. And the earth will fade away as stated in revelations and a new earth and a new heaven will be created, thus, hell must exist for if you are a sinner you can not dwell in the new heaven thus hell is the only opition. Why can't we be reincarnated on this "new earth"? I mean, you'd think that God, being benevolent and all, would believe in second chances rather than torturing someone until the end of time. And don't give me that "God is a stern parent" argument. There is a big difference between disciplining a child to teach them a lesson and torturing them for eternity for a simple mistake. Even if they do learn their lesson, they can't apply it in that case.
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:09 am
A Different Light I've got quite few things to say. First, Liz, I guess I understand your thoughts on the surface, but they're highly inspecific. Like what kind of things will I be missing? Creativity? Wonder? Hope? Just to clarify is all. Aroarra, I don't follow your logic at all. It really proves nothing. I guess that's all i really have to say there. Type Text, I have a proposal that doesn't involve me being tortured for eternity. God, being omnipotent, destroys Satan and his minions, which sort of gets rid of Hell. Then, instead of going to Hell, I just walk earth as a ghost and freak people out. Thus, I can be evil on earth, and God can have you and your pure friends in Heaven. Why does god like to torture me? Because it sure looks like that's his goal. There a lot that goes that whole destory satan thing, but instead of destroying him Satan suffers for all enternity, I think that a much better punishment, but, Satan gets to drag whoever sins down with him. Because the earth will fade away and it'll be a clean cut heaven or hell. See right now no-one is in hell, but in Shoel, now, they wait there until judgement day to account for there sins, Then there heaven or hell. No inbetween, there no point for it. You don't understand there will be no-one on earth for you to be evil to. Lethkhar Why can't we be reincarnated on this "new earth"? I mean, you'd think that God, being benevolent and all, would believe in second chances rather than torturing someone until the end of time. 80yrs of your life and constant run ins with Religion and possibilities for you to see the physical manifestation of God if you are keen enough to find it isn't enough of a second chance. How many do you want? I mean, you can have Jesus which means that all sins you ever commit, even as bad as murder, rape, everything can be forgotten in an instant. That a second chance. By right, we should all be damn to hell. And are. See in Gen God said this "If you eat of the tree of good and evil you will SURELY die." Which is true, you suffer the ultimate death which is hell. And the only death God really talks about. But his given you a second chance through Christ Jesus. Would you like a third and fourth chance as well? Well funnily enough you get just what you ask, see, after the rapture, there will be 7yrs of the anti-christ in power, if you don't give into the anti-christ and stay without the mark of the beast, then, Jesus returns with the Saints to govern the Earth for 1000yrs, if you live and die in this time its instant heaven. There your third chance. Lethkhar And don't give me that "God is a stern parent" argument. There is a big difference between disciplining a child to teach them a lesson and torturing them for eternity for a simple mistake. Even if they do learn their lesson, they can't apply it in that case. It not that simple a promise is a promise, God warned you that it would be Death, we see that, then we have a chance to apply it through christ Jesus sacrifice.
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:19 am
I think I may differ from many here with my views on Hell. Firstly, I don't think it's eternal. Other things in the Bible were said to be eternal, and in later chapters were proven untrue.
You know how people see ghosts?
Well here's my theory on the whole hell thing.
I believe that when an unsaved person passes on, their souls simply cannot ascend into heaven. Their sins weigh them down and prevent them from entering. So they wander the Earth in their spirit form, completely separated from God and the light. They must watch the living go on with their daily routines and try to learn lessons from them. They would be on Earth for as long as it took them to gain knowledge of everything they had done wrong in life. Then, if they accept what they've learned, their sins are removed and they ascend into heaven. Some souls would not be on Earth for very long at all - maybe only a year.
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:05 am
omnimodus I think I may differ from many here with my views on Hell. Firstly, I don't think it's eternal. Other things in the Bible were said to be eternal, and in later chapters were proven untrue. You know how people see ghosts? Well here's my theory on the whole hell thing. I believe that when an unsaved person passes on, their souls simply cannot ascend into heaven. Their sins weigh them down and prevent them from entering. So they wander the Earth in their spirit form, completely separated from God and the light. They must watch the living go on with their daily routines and try to learn lessons from them. They would be on Earth for as long as it took them to gain knowledge of everything they had done wrong in life. Then, if they accept what they've learned, their sins are removed and they ascend into heaven. Some souls would not be on Earth for very long at all - maybe only a year. I like that idea. If god exists, I'll find out as soon as I die, so I can convert then. It also sounds pretty logical. Very new age God. Although, Type Text's God does seem quite true to the Old Testament.
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:08 am
A Different Light I've got quite few things to say. First, Liz, I guess I understand your thoughts on the surface, but they're highly inspecific. Like what kind of things will I be missing? Creativity? Wonder? Hope? Just to clarify is all. Honestly, I can't give you a specific answer. I imagine since there would be a complete lack of God, all of the above. Basically, anything that God has blessed you with in this life would be gone since you would be totally detatched from him.
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:55 pm
Type Text Here A Different Light I've got quite few things to say. First, Liz, I guess I understand your thoughts on the surface, but they're highly inspecific. Like what kind of things will I be missing? Creativity? Wonder? Hope? Just to clarify is all. Aroarra, I don't follow your logic at all. It really proves nothing. I guess that's all i really have to say there. Type Text, I have a proposal that doesn't involve me being tortured for eternity. God, being omnipotent, destroys Satan and his minions, which sort of gets rid of Hell. Then, instead of going to Hell, I just walk earth as a ghost and freak people out. Thus, I can be evil on earth, and God can have you and your pure friends in Heaven. Why does god like to torture me? Because it sure looks like that's his goal. There a lot that goes that whole destory satan thing, but instead of destroying him Satan suffers for all enternity, I think that a much better punishment, but, Satan gets to drag whoever sins down with him. Because the earth will fade away and it'll be a clean cut heaven or hell. See right now no-one is in hell, but in Shoel, now, they wait there until judgement day to account for there sins, Then there heaven or hell. No inbetween, there no point for it. You don't understand there will be no-one on earth for you to be evil to. Lethkhar Why can't we be reincarnated on this "new earth"? I mean, you'd think that God, being benevolent and all, would believe in second chances rather than torturing someone until the end of time. 80yrs of your life and constant run ins with Religion and possibilities for you to see the physical manifestation of God if you are keen enough to find it isn't enough of a second chance. How many do you want? I mean, you can have Jesus which means that all sins you ever commit, even as bad as murder, rape, everything can be forgotten in an instant. That a second chance. By right, we should all be damn to hell. And are. See in Gen God said this "If you eat of the tree of good and evil you will SURELY die." Which is true, you suffer the ultimate death which is hell. And the only death God really talks about. But his given you a second chance through Christ Jesus. Would you like a third and fourth chance as well? I think you fail to realise that Christianity is not the only religion in the world. There are other religions that make promises similar to those of Christianity. What makes Christianity so unique? Why should I follow its teachings rather than, say, Islam? Quote: Well funnily enough you get just what you ask, see, after the rapture, there will be 7yrs of the anti-christ in power, if you don't give into the anti-christ and stay without the mark of the beast, then, Jesus returns with the Saints to govern the Earth for 1000yrs, if you live and die in this time its instant heaven. There your third chance. That's not a third chance. I still don't get a clear incarnation of God. Quote: Lethkhar And don't give me that "God is a stern parent" argument. There is a big difference between disciplining a child to teach them a lesson and torturing them for eternity for a simple mistake. Even if they do learn their lesson, they can't apply it in that case. It not that simple a promise is a promise, God warned you that it would be Death, we see that, then we have a chance to apply it through christ Jesus sacrifice. And you have a chance to accept the Flying Spaghetti Monster as your personal saviour. But do you? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. But what exactly makes Christianity so much more compelling than a flying spaghetti monster?
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:31 am
A Different Light omnimodus I think I may differ from many here with my views on Hell. Firstly, I don't think it's eternal. Other things in the Bible were said to be eternal, and in later chapters were proven untrue. You know how people see ghosts? Well here's my theory on the whole hell thing. I believe that when an unsaved person passes on, their souls simply cannot ascend into heaven. Their sins weigh them down and prevent them from entering. So they wander the Earth in their spirit form, completely separated from God and the light. They must watch the living go on with their daily routines and try to learn lessons from them. They would be on Earth for as long as it took them to gain knowledge of everything they had done wrong in life. Then, if they accept what they've learned, their sins are removed and they ascend into heaven. Some souls would not be on Earth for very long at all - maybe only a year. I like that idea. If god exists, I'll find out as soon as I die, so I can convert then. It also sounds pretty logical. Very new age God. Although, Type Text's God does seem quite true to the Old Testament. Intresting theory but diprovable. I hope it like that but I wouldn't put any money on it. And yes, God the 'same yesterday today and forever'. anyway, there a place called shoel where I believe the concept of purgatory came from. In shoel you simple wait, until judgement day, then you are judge and either put into heaven or hell. I see ghosts as three possible things, 1. Demons. 2. A deal between demon and soul 3. Non-existent. Ghosts after all have never really done nice things. And they're almost always creepy. Anyway the whole shoel thing is provable because everyone went to sheol, and in the three days of Jesus death it said that he went to shoel and preached to everyone who was there, thus completing everything Jesus said. "None can come to the father except through me." and "I've been sent as a sacrifice for everyone who ever has been"
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