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xox_tialynn

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:05 pm
I don't believe you can choose either you want to be gay or not. I just returned home from the last gathering of my youth group until summer is over, and a friend of mine - a student who just graduated this year, somebody who the younger youth look up to - confessed his struggles with his lust towards men. He made sure that we know that we shouldn't keep our problems up inside. We need to let our friends and family help, and we most importantly need to let God help, because they will not judge us (if they're decent human beings). I have a tremendous new found respect for how much courage he had so share this, and I'm keeping him in my prayers. He let us all know that he did not choose to be attracted to males. He believes that it's disgusting and wrong. So if somebody I know personally is telling me that he can't help the way he feels, how can I possibly believe that it's whether you want to be gay or not is our choice? I can't.

I was thinking of putting this in the debate forum, but I don't intend for this to be a debate. I'm just curious as to your answers and opinions, and your reasons for them.
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:06 pm
Just me posting in this thread would kill the guild. My view, has been shut out many times in this guild and the forums therefore, I will not awnser.

Ok... I know you are curious. But this is a topic that has seperated the guild. If you want to know, the debate forum can make room for curiosity sakes.

Unfortunately, this topic has brought a lot of discomfort for both sides of the argument.

Therefore, I will lock the topic.
I am deeply sorry.  

Luke_of_Chaos0911
Crew


mibster
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:00 pm
I know we may have different veiws on this topic but hiding from it won't help anything....I feel we should reach out to those that need our love and not just lock them away and say that the problem doesn't exist  
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:17 pm
From what I know and understand, sexual orientation is not a choice. I have heard that many have commited suicide because they didn't want to live life as a homosexual.  

flyingemu27
Captain


mibster
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:39 pm
wait...I remember on this one sleepover we had that you said differently mike...but oh well X3  
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:07 pm
Oooh I knew this threat would be unlocked ^_^ thank you. I'm so glad it was, because whoever said that we shouldn't hide our problems away was right, and thats exactly what my friend was saying.

Anyways, wow, suicide. Now I'm scared. eek But his faith in Christ is so breathtaking... I highly doubt he would resort to killing himself...
 

xox_tialynn


mibster
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:41 pm
Well I'm glad your friend has Jesus to help him in his time of need ^-^  
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:03 am
Yeah, well.. now I have a question.

If what sex we're attracted to isnt up to us, how are we supposed to "do anything through Christ who stengthens us" and fix the problem?
 

xox_tialynn


Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:23 am
Sexuality and Choice
- Wikipedia on Sexual Orientation
- Gay Men Respond Differently to Pheremones
- Gay Men's Brains Found Different
- The Homosexual Brain
- APA on Homosexuality
- Reuters: Gene Alters Sexuality of Fruit Flies
- Cell: Fruit Fly Experiment
- Homosexuality-A Natural Cause?
- A Difference in Hypothalmic Structure Between Heterosexual and Homosexual Men (study published in Science, 253: 1034-1037, 1991)
- NewScientist.com: Pheromone attracts straight women and gay men
- Sexuality Is Not A Choice
- APA On Sexuality
- Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture
- Twin Studies of Homosexuality  
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:27 am
I was kinda Gay once, and i Know that it starts to come from yourself once satan throws it your way and your not just born with it. biggrin  

account banning service12


flyingemu27
Captain

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:25 am
xox_tialynn
Yeah, well.. now I have a question.

If what sex we're attracted to isnt up to us, how are we supposed to "do anything through Christ who stengthens us" and fix the problem?


There is freedom in Christ. He has the power to take it away. 3nodding  
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:26 am
mibster
wait...I remember on this one sleepover we had that you said differently mike...but oh well X3


Maybe you misunderstood me. PM me if you want to talk about it. biggrin  

flyingemu27
Captain


flyingemu27
Captain

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:31 am
You know, Link was right. This subject can really get off hand. Just as a warning, if things get out of control, I, or another crew member, will lock this thread and move it to the crew forum. Just a warning. So behave! scream

Continue. sweatdrop  
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:50 pm
lol... you really want me to crank it out don't you.

THIS TOPIC OFFENDS PEOPLE. SORRY. END OF ROAD. THIS GUILD MAY WORK OUT PROBLEMS, BUT I AM RESPECTING THIS GUILD BY PREVENTING THE DISCUSSION.

It is absolutely, the wrong choice, to hide from a problem. Therefore, go to the debate forum to talk about it. Thx.

I will not post, because I will be hated forever if I do. Thanks.  

Luke_of_Chaos0911
Crew


Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:10 pm
flyingemu27
xox_tialynn
Yeah, well.. now I have a question.

If what sex we're attracted to isnt up to us, how are we supposed to "do anything through Christ who stengthens us" and fix the problem?


There is freedom in Christ. He has the power to take it away. 3nodding


From http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.com/biblical_evidence/gay_couple.html

Jesus healed a gay man's lover
From our days in Sunday school, many of us are familiar with the Gospel story where Jesus healed the servant of a Roman centurion. This story is recorded in Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:1-10. In Matthew, we are told that the centurion came to Jesus to plead for the healing of his servant. Jesus said he was willing to come to the centurion’s house, but the centurion said there was no need for Jesus to do so — he believed that if Jesus simply spoke the word, his servant would be healed. Marveling at the man’s faith, Jesus pronounced the servant healed. Luke tells a similar story.

Just another miracle story, right? Not on your life!

In the original language, the importance of this story for gay, lesbian, and bisexual Christians is much clearer. The Greek word used in Matthew’s account to refer to the servant of the centurion is pais. In the language of the time, pais had three possible meanings depending upon the context in which it was used. It could mean “son or boy;” it could mean “servant,” or it could mean a particular type of servant — one who was “his master’s male lover.” (See note 18.) Often these lovers were younger than their masters, even teenagers.

To our modern minds, the idea of buying a teen lover seems repugnant. But we have to place this in the context of ancient cultural norms. In ancient times, commercial transactions were the predominant means of forming relationships. Under the law, the wife was viewed as the property of the husband, with a status just above that of slave. Moreover, in Jesus’ day, a boy or girl was considered of marriageable age upon reaching his or her early teens. It was not uncommon for boys and girls to marry at age 14 or 15. (See note 19.) Nor was it uncommon for an older man to marry a young girl. Fortunately civilization has advanced, but these were the norms in the culture of Jesus’ day.

In that culture, if you were a gay man who wanted a male “spouse,” you achieved this, like your heterosexual counterparts, through a commercial transaction — purchasing someone to serve that purpose. A servant purchased to serve this purpose was often called a pais.

The word boy in English offers a rough comparison. Like pais, the word boy can be used to refer to a male child. But in the slave South in the nineteenth century, boy was also often used to refer to male slaves. The term boy can also be used as a term of endearment. For example, Jeff’s father often refers to his mother as “his girl.” He doesn’t mean that she is a child, but rather that she is his “special one.” The term boy can be used in the same way, as in “my boy” or “my beau.” In ancient Greek, pais had a similar range of meanings.

Thus, when this term was used, the listener had to consider the context of the statement to determine which meaning was intended. Some modern Christians may be tempted to simply declare by fiat that the Gospels could not possibly have used the term pais in the sense of male lover, end of discussion. But that would be yielding to prejudice. We must let the word of God speak for itself, even if it leads us to an uncomfortable destination.

Is it possible the pais referred to in Matthew 8 and Luke 7 was the Roman centurion’s male lover? Let’s look at the biblical evidence.


The Bible provides three key pieces of textual and circumstantial evidence. First, in the Luke passage, several additional Greek words are used to describe the one who is sick. Luke says this pais was the centurion’s entimos doulos. The word doulos is a generic term for slave, and was never used in ancient Greek to describe a son/boy. Thus, Luke’s account rules out the possibility the sick person was the centurion’s son; his use of doulos makes clear this was a slave. However, Luke also takes care to indicate this was no ordinary slave. The word entimos means “honored.” This was an “honored slave” (entimos doulos) who was his master’s pais. Taken together, the three Greek words preclude the possibility the sick person was either the centurion’s son or an ordinary slave, leaving only one viable option — he was his master’s male lover. (See note 20.)

A second piece of evidence is found in verse 9 of Matthew’s account. In the course of expressing his faith in Jesus’ power to heal by simply speaking, the centurion says, “When I tell my slave to do something, he does it.” By extension, the centurion concludes that Jesus is also able to issue a remote verbal command that must be carried out. When speaking here of his slaves, the centurion uses the word doulos. But when speaking of the one he is asking Jesus to heal, he uses only pais. In other words, when he is quoted in Matthew, the centurion uses pais only when referring to the sick person. He uses a different word, doulos, when speaking of his other slaves, as if to draw a distinction. (In Luke, it is others, not the centurion, who call the sick one an entimos doulos.) Again, the clear implication is that the sick man was no ordinary slave. And when pais was used to describe a servant who was not an ordinary slave, it meant only one thing — a slave who was the master’s male lover.

The third piece of evidence is circumstantial. In the Gospels, we have many examples of people seeking healing for themselves or for family members. But this story is the only example of someone seeking healing for a slave. The actions described are made even more remarkable by the fact that this was a proud Roman centurion (the conqueror/oppressor) who was humbling himself and pleading with a Jewish rabbi (the conquered/oppressed) to heal his slave. The extraordinary lengths to which this man went to seek healing for his slave is much more understandable, from a psychological perspective, if the slave was his beloved companion.

Thus, all the textual and circumstantial evidence in the Gospels points in one direction. For objective observers, the conclusion is inescapable: In this story Jesus healed a man’s male lover. When understood this way, the story takes on a whole new dimension.
 
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