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Arkady Skyreaver

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:24 am


I know that I personally have said some bad things about catholics in the past (not on here but in real life. So I of course fell in love with one. I respect her and love her but I worry about her beleifs, but I know that I am ignorant to much of what she knows and feels about God, but this is the woman I want to marry oneday so...I need some help. I know that she loves me and that she knows that I have a heart for God and that she will follow what I do. (that is she is going to become a baptist - not my request she asked me if she could) I really need to personally learn more about catholicism so that I can know what difficulties she may face. (I know about the early church and about the reformation. My dad was catholic but I only went to that church once to get a merit badge so he really never taught me anything - my mom was a brethren and she taught me nothing of her religon either) She never asked me to become Catholic for her (I couldn't anyhow I beleive in the 5 solas and have one tattood on my arm - I was going to get the other 4 but she protested and in an act of submitance I will not get anymore tattoos) I never asked her to become Baptist for me (she is a filipina and I assumed it would never happen) but when we had a long talk about God she asked me how I felt about things and I explained to her the gospel and Jesus's sacrifice and she said that she learned all that but that but it was diffrent. - we do have some barrier with language but she is a firm beleiver in Christ and I have never heard her mention anything heretical about her church (except that they worship sainto nino - yes baby Jesus - as the Christ and saint?) and other saints but that is to be expected with a catholic church. I will be happy to go into more detail if anyone has questions - any help would be good. I am not looking for ways to convert her just ways to understand her and her beliefs.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:54 pm


Oh hey shes filipina.. yeah i can understand the devotionals to saints and stuff, although with my family it doesn't happen too much (i'm filipino too). So what exactly are you asking?

rolandgarros


Arkady Skyreaver

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:55 pm


Sorry I am a bit of a rambler - Okay I guess the just of what I need to know is - What it is that a catholic believes (speifically if possable a Philippine catholic) what I have heard so far is that there is the transubstantiation - possable alternate route to heaven through both marry and anne?!? (Mary's mom never mentioned in the bible) biblical text varies greatly in some sections - such as the love chapter. I have no idea why the saints are important (she asked me what I thought of mary and the saints - I told her they were upstanding role-modles) but everything I have learned has been from non-catholics. Is there a book? I live by a Johns Christian book store.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:36 pm


Arkady Skyreaver
Sorry I am a bit of a rambler - Okay I guess the just of what I need to know is - What it is that a catholic believes (speifically if possable a Philippine catholic) what I have heard so far is that there is the transubstantiation - possable alternate route to heaven through both marry and anne?!? (Mary's mom never mentioned in the bible) biblical text varies greatly in some sections - such as the love chapter. I have no idea why the saints are important (she asked me what I thought of mary and the saints - I told her they were upstanding role-modles) but everything I have learned has been from non-catholics. Is there a book? I live by a Johns Christian book store.


ok so i take it that you are wondering about devotions to the saints. Yes, it is a big part of culture in places like the Philippines and even in Latin America. Although living in the US has diminished part of that, we still have a particular connection to Saint Jude for example. A book? Not really, from what I know its been passed down through tradition. To tell you the truth, I don't know much about this subject due to my location, but I can probably make some general statements, however, do not take them as fact, as I am not sure.

As for the part that Mary's mom is not mentioned in the Bible too often, this stems from the fact that Catholic teachings do not only come from the Bible, they come from the Magisterium as well, and of course the Magisterium doesnt stray too far from the Bible, if at all. Now I don't know of any significant teaching from the Magisterium about Anne, but this is basically just to highlight that Catholicism is not from the Bible alone, a key aspect of Catholicism. Whenever someone mentions a teaching, we do not ask where it is in the Bible to verfiy it, as other denominations may do, as long as it makes sense in the context of the Bible and isn't contradicted in the Bible, then its true. Keep in mind that these teachings are not made by anyone.

With regards to adoration of the saints in countries such as the Philippines, I hate to make this generalization, but I think this is where it stems from. Again, don't take this to be 100% true, stereotypes never always fit and so don't take it against me. From what I know, filipinos are quite superstitious; there have been countless legends of vampire people and demons that my father has told me. With that come stories of miracles and such coming from mere statues of saints or so. Combined with family tradition, I feel this is where it may stem from.

But again, this is just speculation, I do not know enough about this subject to give the true facts, but its a likely explanation. If you can, seek to verify this with other sources.

I'm sorry if I'm a bit unclear, but I hope I am helping you out a bit. Feel free to ask questions to better understand thio.

rolandgarros


brad175

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:13 pm


Catholicism huh? It reminds me so much of the Pharisees. Tradition, tradition, tradition, adding to what is expected of you, diluting the gospel..
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:30 pm


brad we didnt come here to hate on another religion or in effect hate on a whole race of people. if you don't have anything useful to say, then don't say anything at all. after all, isn't the Gospel about loving others as God loved us?

rolandgarros


brad175

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:53 pm


rolandgarros
brad we didnt come here to hate on another religion or in effect hate on a whole race of people. if you don't have anything useful to say, then don't say anything at all. after all, isn't the Gospel about loving others as God loved us?


I didn't come to hate on "another religion" as you call it. I merely asserted that Catholicism is the Pharisees of today. Catholicism has become the horrible strawman for Christianity. I ask you, should I stand idly by? I believe my post was the most loving. The truth is important. It is love that drives me to debate or post at all.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:46 am


That's a big accusation to be making, calling Catholicism the Pharisees of today. Especially since Catholicism is the original sect of Christianity. *le sigh* Why does everyone pick on Catholicism these days...*shrugs*

Also, mind if I ask why its a problem if you marry her and you're a Baptist and she's a Catholic? I mean, it's not like Catholics are Muslims or Jewish. You're both Christians, so you should be able to marry without a problem.

METALFumasu


rolandgarros

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:33 pm


METALFumasu
That's a big accusation to be making, calling Catholicism the Pharisees of today. Especially since Catholicism is the original sect of Christianity. *le sigh* Why does everyone pick on Catholicism these days...*shrugs*

Also, mind if I ask why its a problem if you marry her and you're a Baptist and she's a Catholic? I mean, it's not like Catholics are Muslims or Jewish. You're both Christians, so you should be able to marry without a problem.


Once again, I agree with this guy ---> (his avatar).

There is a slight problem deciding which Church to marry in, but still both of you are Christian.

And, if you guys havent noticed, this thread kinda died awhile ago.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:16 pm


METALFumasu
That's a big accusation to be making, calling Catholicism the Pharisees of today. Especially since Catholicism is the original sect of Christianity. *le sigh* Why does everyone pick on Catholicism these days...*shrugs*

Also, mind if I ask why its a problem if you marry her and you're a Baptist and she's a Catholic? I mean, it's not like Catholics are Muslims or Jewish. You're both Christians, so you should be able to marry without a problem.


Lol! Better cover up, your ignorance is showing. Seriously though, the Catholic church was not the original sect of Christianity by any means. The original sect of Christianity consisted of Jesus and 11 out of 12 of his disciples. Following Jesus' assenscion into heaven, there was a huge explosion in the church. If you would read the Bible you would see, that the disciples established many churches all over the globe. Christianity did become big in Rome at one point, hence the book "Romans." Christianity in Rome brought about the Roman Catholic Church.
Just because it had and has a large following does not make it the first church. The Catholic church has always been corrupt. They sold tickets to heaven in the past and they molest children today. One thing hasn't changed though- they still know how to abuse power and hold themselves more highly than they ought to. I pick on Catholicism because I know a lot about it.

brad175


TheGooseWhisperer

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:43 am


brad175
METALFumasu
That's a big accusation to be making, calling Catholicism the Pharisees of today. Especially since Catholicism is the original sect of Christianity. *le sigh* Why does everyone pick on Catholicism these days...*shrugs*

Also, mind if I ask why its a problem if you marry her and you're a Baptist and she's a Catholic? I mean, it's not like Catholics are Muslims or Jewish. You're both Christians, so you should be able to marry without a problem.


Lol! Better cover up, your ignorance is showing. Seriously though, the Catholic church was not the original sect of Christianity by any means. The original sect of Christianity consisted of Jesus and 11 out of 12 of his disciples. Following Jesus' assenscion into heaven, there was a huge explosion in the church. If you would read the Bible you would see, that the disciples established many churches all over the globe. Christianity did become big in Rome at one point, hence the book "Romans." Christianity in Rome brought about the Roman Catholic Church.
Just because it had and has a large following does not make it the first church. The Catholic church has always been corrupt. They sold tickets to heaven in the past and they molest children today. One thing hasn't changed though- they still know how to abuse power and hold themselves more highly than they ought to. I pick on Catholicism because I know a lot about it.

Aye..
That, he is true pirate

I have things to say to the lot-a-ya! =]

Brad, you should really shoose what you're going to say. I don't agree with Catholicism either, but picking on is different than discussing it maturly. You're right in saying that they sold tickets to heaven. You're wrong in saying that they've molested children in the past. There have been instinces, yes. But that doesn't excuse the fact that this could happen in ANY church, and has. It's a poor argument..sorry XP

As for everyone else. I think there _is_ a problem with a Baptist marrying a Catholic. There's a HUGE difference in belief. While Catholics believe they should pray to Mary and the saints, who are _ded_ btw, Baptist believe they should take it seriously when God says not to worship/pray to anyone but himself.
And that's just one example.

Catholicism and Prodestants (sp) are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, weather you shoose to acknowlage this or not.

even take a look at the dictionary - it'll tell you quite blatantly what this difference is:

Catholicism: the faith, system, and practice of the Catholic Church, esp. the Roman Catholic Church

Christianity:
1 - of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ
2 - a religious person who believes Jesus is the Christ and who is a member of a Christian denomination

(I took the only/most relitive definitions. Click the links to visit Dictionary.com and view them for yourself)

You see, every Catholic is a Christain because they follow Christ. But other denominations do not follow the Catholic Church. Why? Because there is a huge difference in teachings. Sure, you're both believers, but there _will_ be conficts, weather you think so _now_ or not. You'll see so later.

Well...That's all I've gotta say about that..

"If at first you don’t succeed;
call it version 1.0."
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:09 pm


Picking on? Well, excuse me if I pushed a button. I was just telling the facts. Indeed, children probably have been molested in other churches, though it is much more unheard of. Though, maybe I should have picked a different corruption of today. Also, I am against picking on people, but have no qualms with picking on a religion and/or philosophy, especially when this religion is the reason so many people hate the church and turn to wicca (talked to 2 on here) and other things while maintaining that they are the original church. It disgusts me and I guarantee you that it is detestable to my God.

brad175


METALFumasu

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:42 am


Facts? Ha! You apparently don't know as much about Catholicism as you think!

I'll admit that the Catholic Church isn't perfect (Why else would there be a Reformation and breaking away from the Roman Catholic Church, and a Counter-Reformation inside the Catholic Church to counter corruption?). It's people like you who disgust me because you claim that the Roman Catholic Church is corrupt, detested in the eyes of God, etc, etc, when you have no right to judge us!

There are probably priests who molest kids in your denomination as well but you don't hear about it in the news because guess what, the Roman Catholic Church is the largest organized body of any world religion. This makes it a HUGE target for things like The Da Vinci Code (Which brings up the disturbing fact that people actually believe in what is written in that fictional book) or blowing things out of proportion because there have been a couple ***** priests (We've already dealt with that problem thank you very much). You seem to enjoy blowing things way out of proportion.

And guess what, we Catholics trace our origins to the original Christian community founded by Jesus Christ and spread by the Twelve Apostles (Judas was replaced by Matthias) and especially Saint Peter.
And we are the oldest branch of Christianity, because our church was founded in Jerusalem by Jesus Christ. The headquarters became Rome after the schism with Arianism in 318 AD.
Also, who are you to say guarantee 'that it is detestable by God'? I thought the LORD IN HEAVEN was the one who passed that sort of judgement, not a mere mortal such as yourself.

"Judge not lest you be judged." So sayeth the Scripture.

And just what the blazes is the matter with Wiccans? Why not Muslims, Buddhists, or the more practical target, the SATANIST?
Why do you have such a problem with Catholicism? Does the Apostles' Creed not say 'In one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church'?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:14 pm


brad175
They sold tickets to heaven in the past and they molest children today.


Actually, Indulgences are only valid if the recepient is in a 'state of grace'. Even if they were given to those who gave a lot of money to the Church, the Indulgence doesn't count unless the receiver has a contrite heart, and has confessed to and seeked absolution from the Almighty God. However, it is considered hugely offensive by Catholics for someone to pressume they will end up in Heaven. An Indulgence is like, say, a special prayer from the Church as a whole, asking God to bestow Graces. And we know from Sacred Scripture, that those who have received much, much will be asked of them. So for a Catholic to validly receive an Indulgence, they need to be spiritually snazzy anyway, and then because they have received an Indulgence, even more will be expected of them from God. I also feel needy to assure you that knowledgable Catholics never, ever pressume they will enter Heaven; one of our...nicer...Popes said on his deathbed, when someone was assuring him everything would be fine, that one should "never pressume God's Mercy". Although we are generally understanding that this doctrine is pretty unique to our denomination, from a Catholic point of view, pressumtion like this is essentially blasphemous, and if any Catholic tells you they're going to Heaven, you have my permission to doctrinally box their ears through.

TheEnglishRose


Galileo Q

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:30 am


Arkady Skyreaver
Sorry I am a bit of a rambler - Okay I guess the just of what I need to know is - What it is that a catholic believes (speifically if possable a Philippine catholic) what I have heard so far is that there is the transubstantiation - possable alternate route to heaven through both marry and anne?!? (Mary's mom never mentioned in the bible) biblical text varies greatly in some sections - such as the love chapter. I have no idea why the saints are important (she asked me what I thought of mary and the saints - I told her they were upstanding role-modles) but everything I have learned has been from non-catholics. Is there a book? I live by a Johns Christian book store.


Arkady, there are lots of books about what the teachings of Catholicism are, from many different perspectives, some clear, some confusing, some accurate, some blatantly inaccurate. If you really want to understand what the teachings are look to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. This is a recent update (not changing) of the teaching into book format. It's a beefy tome, but should be able answer almost any question you may have. It has an excellent index and is also available online. http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm and many other places.

But for something a bit more manageable to get a more basic orientation, the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church which is less than 200 pages and organized in the same structure as the Catechism, but presents it in a series of about 600 questions and answers. It ALSO is available online. http://www.vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

There are a couple of other books that lay things out in a more narrative form if that's your preference. I'll have to pick through to find what I'd suggest, if you'd like me too.

Now both of these communicate the teaching of the church, but there is a lot there that is often misunderstood. It address things about saints, veneration of Mary, what exactly IS transubstantianation
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