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 Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:50 pm
DEBATING RULES:
Incorrect:
"sasusaku wil nvr work it is gay and stupid and sasuke is gay and sasunaru ftw and any1 who likes sasusaku is stupid"
Correct:
"I believe NaruSaku will never become canon because Sakura and Naruto, as I see it, are only siblings - a platonic relationship."
Try to keep cursing to a minimum, and PLEASE be literate. No flaming/bashing, just debating.
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:48 pm
One question, Olive-san. What does 'ftw' stand for? >>
As for pairings that I'd be willing to debate about...
SasuSaku. Oh, my brother's Naruto OTP. LOL Okay, I don't dislike this pairing by any means. In fact, if you were to take a look at some of the stories that I've got typed up on my computer and haven't posted, you'd almost think that I shipped both SasuSaku and NaruHina (which I don't...). I guess that on some terms, you could call me a shipper of SasuSaku because I can write it easily and I actually don't mind writing these two together. The only problem is that I can't look at it in any form of them being together (forever) without having to look away. Sorry! I do defend this pairing as often as I can, however.
What makes me hesitant to ship this is the fact that I just don't see it. [read: I personally don't see it]
From the get go, Sakura has seemed to have a meager fangirl's crush on him. Personally, I've hardly ever been able to see the true love that was supposed to have developed with time as so many SasuSaku fans claim. Sure, come post-timeskip she does mourn over Sasuke, but c'mon, he's been gone for one. For another thing, he's probably become important to her in other terms: as a friend, as a teammate, as someone that she had looked up to, as someone who was probably like family to her. I can see all of that. The true, romantic love, however, is the one thing that I can't see, and probably won't be able to see, until Sasuke comes back to Konoha (which I doubt will be any time soon).
For Sasuke, I've never seen him have any form of love for her. He's brushed her off with every come-on that she's applied. He's ignored her. He's called her weak. To look at what I'm saying as an outsider, someone could say that maybe he's been trying to "hurt those that he loves"... and maybe that's true, but I really doubt that it would have been romantic love that he felt for her. In honesty, I think that he feels that she's maybe like a sibling. She annoys him and she can get under his skin, but he does care for her (that much I can say is indisputable). I mean, he wouldn't protect her if he didn't think anything of her at all. The way that I see it, he does, in fact, see her as being maybe like a sister. At the same time, I can see him caring for her like a friend, because that's what she is. She becomes a friend with time. That much becomes obvious when he leaves Konoha and tells her "Thank you." When I watched that, I could see him thanking her for caring so much, for being so willing to throw away her future (so foolishly) for him, but at the same time he was telling her to stay where she was, that she was needed in Konoha and that Naruto would need her. That much at least shows that he cares, but I doubt that it shows "romantic" love.
I suppose that you could easily turn that Sasuke arguement into an arguement for why he loves her, but I really doubt that you could adequately twist my words around to make me believe that Sasuke's ever shown anything more than platonic love for his pink-haired teammate.
Besides, there's one more factor that must not be forgotten: Uzumaki Naruto.
If anything (and as much as it makes me twitch), I think that NaruSaku is probably the closest thing to becoming canon. Sakura has been against Naruto for a large majority of the series, but it was so easy to tell that there could easily be something between them (something which Inner Sakura always withheld). She may not have understood him early on, but she definitely had things in common with him (things that made her Inner Sakura say, "I love that kind of stuff!" all the time). And it's so obvious that over time she starts to care for him very much--maybe like a little brother or something of the sort. However, come post timeskip, there are moments where anyone can tell (even non-NaruSaku fans) that Sakura adores Naruto... and maybe likes him as more than a friend as well? It remains to be seen, I think, but it's definitely possible.
I doubt that Sasuke would want to hurt Naruto, either, by accepting Sakura's constant public adoration (which differs very much from her hidden adoration of Naruto), knowing that Naruto likes Sakura very much. Sure, he may come off as not caring, but he did say that Naruto was his best friend. Considering what little he has in life, besides killing the blond because of Itachi's words, I don't think that he'd want to hurt Naruto like that. Sounds a little weird, eh? I really just don't think that it'd happen for him unless Naruto forcefully pushed him to be with Sakura and then he probably wouldn't do it because he wouldn't want to give into Naruto in the first place.
And gosh, where am I going with this?
Sorry if my logic is confusing. I tend to talk in circles when I'm debating. What makes sense to me could very well not make sense to someone else.
And again, I'm not really anti-SasuSaku. If it, or NaruSaku, or NaruHina were to happen in the canon, I doubt that I'd dislike the series any less. ^^;
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:05 am
To be fair, Kishimoto-sensei pretty much sucks at romance.
I don't think it's right to say that Sasuke could never have any form of love for Sakura; he thanks her for caring, and takes the time to put her on the bench before leaving. Granted he's still left a twelve-year-old girl on a bench in the middle of the night in the middle of what appears to be a predominantly male village... But the sentiment is there.
As for the "true love," even that is one-sided and questionable. After Sasuke is knocked off the pedestal Sakura has always regarded him as occupying, she starts to look at him as more of a person, less of a boy she thinks is cute. She acknowledges him as her team mate and friend and comrade who needs her protection; she rightly worries for his well-being, and is actually less naive than Naruto when she realizes that things aren't hunky-dory and that, yes, there is a very real chance that Sasuke will seek Orochimaru. This all hits Sakura at a time when she's recognized and cursed her own weakness and dependence, a time when, more than ever before, she feels responsible for what happens to her team and its members; she wants to protect Sasuke, be able to take care of him, needs to know that he's safe. All this leads up to the infamous love confession scene.
But. Can we be sure of how "true" this love is? Sakura says that her love for Sasuke is so intense that it's painful-- but aren't so many kinds of love? Isn't it possible, even probable, that Sakura, a twelve-year-old girl who's only ever "loved" one boy, who's desperate and grasping at straws to protect her team mate, is misconstruing her own feelings? Especially in N2 I read Sakura's affection for Sasuke as increasingly platonic.
Okay, whew-- I was defending Sasukura for a paragraph there. Give me a minute to get it the rest of the way out of my system...
Okay. I have an inherent bias against Nakura-- well, all couples, really, but especially Nakura. However, I love the development between them and I agree with you that it is looking more and more canon. It drives me nuts that the latest chapters have caused all this tension just because Hinata and Naruto are in a group together-- are fans saying that Nakura is so hopeless that one arc of Naruto-Hinata interaction will undermine everything that Naruto and Sakura have gone through?
Wow, er, what was my point again? sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:16 pm
I just have one thing to say about the supposed "NaruHina tension" all of a sudden... Where in the world is the tension?! They get paired up in the with Yamato (right?) but I don't think that we've even seen them really speak to each other yet. That's really ridiculous. Princess Dustbunny I don't think it's right to say that Sasuke could never have any form of love for Sakura... ... Wait... Did I say that it wasn't possible? *goes back to check* Nope. I was talking about his past interaction with her indicating that he didn't have any feelings for her, and my own personal opinion saying that I think I could only see him at the time caring about her as a friend. I don't recall saying that it wasn't possible that he could never form any feelings for her, just that I didn't see any when they were actually interacting in the series.
Anyway, I agree with your Sakura points. :3 All of them.
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:45 am
Here's how I go --
On the topic of NaruHina vs. NaruSaku - well, I don't see NaruHina happening. Ever. Hinata's feelings for Naruto have never been built upon, and have never changed. She always looked up to him and admired him, she had a crush on him. However, Kishimoto never spent time to make her feelings change from a mere crush (which is still somewhat fangirlish) into real love. He's had plenty of chances, even after the chuunin exams - but he didn't take that chance, which makes it hard to believe that the pairing is plausible.
Naruto has always had feelings for Sakura. Even since they were just students at the academy, he liked her. At first, he thought it was only for her looks - but hearing her confession about how she was striving to be acknowledged by Sasuke made him realize he had another reason for liking her - they both wanted recognization.
NaruSaku can be disproved of being just a "friendship, brother-sister" relationship, but I won't get into the whole reason. I think Naruto's feelings for Sakura are much more than he's ever felt for a sister - he said his feelings for Sasuke were like having a brother, his feelings for Iruka and Kakashi were like having a father - but he has never made a point on his feelings for Sakura.
Except, in the background. With words that don't expose it right out. He doesn't say things like: "I love Sakura-chan so much..." or "Sakura-chan is the most important person in my life..." or "I'd do anything for Sakura-chan, she's my precious person." He shows his feelings with words more like "I will protect Sakura-chan with my life!" "Sakura-chan really likes Sasuke." "Don't worry, I'll bring Sasuke back! That's a promise of a life time!" Everything he does, all of his thoughts, really do, to an extent, revolve around Sakura, helping Sakura, loving Sakura, caring about Sakura.
And because of that, you can tell that yes, she is his most precious person, and that he does, indeed, love her.
>:3
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