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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:03 pm
Being a native Michigander let me take this moment to put a spot light on a recent infamous prisoner who was just released from prisoner not too long ago.
"Dr. Death" Jack Kevorkian was/is a pathologist who was imprisoned for second degree murder/poisioning in 1998.
Kevorkian is most notabley known as 'Dr. Death' because he helped terminally ill patients kill themselves in assited suicide. He believes that people should be able to kill themselves when and how they want to. His famous statement of "Dying is not a crime" only puts emphasis on his position.
He was also an advocate for expirmentation on death row inmates, which ended up with his medical liscends being taken away.
Here's the wiki on him
Now that he is out of jail, herefuses to aid in anymore assited suicides. But he is now on a mission to educate the american public about their bodily rights.
Somehow I believe you can tie him into the abortion debate. He believes that you should be able to die if you want to, how far fetched is that from having complete control of your reproductive system?
Now I know to some of you this might seem nuts to put him along side us, instant 'Canon fodder' for pro-lifer's right? But you need to think a little deeper imo.
Should you have the right to die?
What is your opinion on this whole thing with Kevorkian?
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:36 pm
Living in Oregon, the only state with legal assisted suicide, I've lived with the fact that people have the right to die. I firmly believe in a right to die, in fact, and think the criminalization of suicide is one of the stupider laws on the books, right up there with the sodomy and blasphemy laws.
As for its relation to pro-choice, I think it's there. We believe a woman has the right to choose what happens to her body. Should we then prevent her from doing harm to that body? I think not! It's fine for people to try to talk others out of suicide, but... if someone really wants to die, or is in terrible pain and wants it to end, and is going to die anyway... why not let them end their lives?
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:10 pm
Kevorkian doesn't deserve half the insults and hate flung at him. He expressed last night on Larry King Live that he is pro-choice--he completely refuted the church's "sanctity of life" doctrine. So he himself has linked it to abortion.
I firmly believe Kevorkian is a man to be respected. He put his credibility, his life and his career on the line to help people who wanted to die. It's funny, many anti-euthanasia activists have said things like "I wish he would die". How anti-death.
The problem with aligning Kevorkian with us is that he is, to many people, a very creepy and morbid guy. He has a fascination with death (which I personally have no objection to), and that freaks out the general public. I think he's a great man for what he did. But many people would disagree.
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:31 pm
i learned about Dr. Kevorkian from my dad quite some time ago. i thought it was stupid that he was ever imprisoned. [Ernie] I firmly believe Kevorkian is a man to be respected. He put his credibility, his life and his career on the line to help people who wanted to die. couldn't have said it better. 3nodding i've never understood why someone in great pain couldn't choose to die before that pain became any greater. i know for a fact that i'd want to die if i were in excruciating pain and i knew i was going to die/become braindead anyway. the legal system can't speak for the people in those situations; so why can't they let the people decide for themselves? UGH IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:05 am
[Ernie] Kevorkian doesn't deserve half the insults and hate flung at him. He expressed last night on Larry King Live that he is pro-choice--he completely refuted the church's "sanctity of life" doctrine. So he himself has linked it to abortion. I firmly believe Kevorkian is a man to be respected. He put his credibility, his life and his career on the line to help people who wanted to die. It's funny, many anti-euthanasia activists have said things like "I wish he would die". How anti-death. The problem with aligning Kevorkian with us is that he is, to many people, a very creepy and morbid guy. He has a fascination with death (which I personally have no objection to), and that freaks out the general public. I think he's a great man for what he did. But many people would disagree. QFT. The one thing I might be kind of 'iffy' about is the experimentation on death row inmates thing- which is something I personally wouldn't advocate.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:19 am
So lets say I was put into the hospital because I was...in a major accident. Ok, Sure the docters/nurses want to keep me alive....
But turn it around a bit, I was in a major accident and..well some reason or anethere slowly dying anyway? They stick those tubes and needles and junk into me to keep me alive... I'm barley hanging on...I feel like it's my time to go anyway, and well the family is trying to keep me alive...They dont want to see me go, I feel it's time to leave this earth anyway...
May I kindly be reminded why they should attempt to revive me if I'm almost gone anyway? there is no real way to bring me back, I felt that I've been through anough. I have no real intention of returning to the living....But, they dont care I'm family,
My point, sure I wouldnt mind having the choice to die by my own wish, It shouldnt be banned from me to die, when I'm nearly there anyway's... Right?
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:46 am
Kevorkian was a ******** saint, and someone that half of the world needs to take lessons from. 'Nuff said.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:41 pm
Taking into consideration that I have nearly been thrown into therapy for simply stating my deepest desire (I had to lie and say I was "just joking"), I believe that one should have the right to die.
Kevorkian is but a man who realizes that no matter what we do, we're going to die anyway. If we want to die, we should with no trouble.
To take away one's right to die is to take away one's right to choose, to breathe, to eat, to drink, to sleep; It's just not right. You've got to do it anyway, so why try to delay the inevitable?
As for the experimentation on death row inmates, I'm for it. They were going to die anyway.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:20 pm
I see nothing wrong with what he did.
In fact, in many of the situations he was in, dealing with the terminally ill and persons in extreme pain, I don't really see assisted suicide as any different than a do not ressucitate order. Why is it we respect the wishes who don't want to live in a coma, but for the people living very consciously in pain... well ******** 'em.
A person's body belongs to one person, them. While suicide is tragic, and while I would encourage someone to not commit suicide, I wouldn't do anything to prevent them if that is what they truly wanted.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:30 pm
I fully support the "right to die," but I can't support Kerkovian. He's supposedly "educating" people about their bodily rights, yet he supports dangerous medical testing on nonconsenting Death Row inmates? Supporting the death penalty in itself seems a bit hypocritical of him, and forcing medical testing on these inmates would TAKE AWAY the few rights they have left.
Besides, human testing isn't a viable alternative to medical animal testing anyway. There's far too many variables with humans so it's damned near impossible to gauge a "normal" reaction thanks to individual medical histories and biological weaknesses and/or resistances which are minimised or not present at all in uniformly bred lab animals, and the human lifespan makes it unfeasible to observe the effects of a drug or treatment over a long span of time.
And I have to ask, what's so "immoral" about testing on animals bred specifically for testing, especially when laws specifying that the smallest number of animals possible must be used and they have to be treated humanely? Lab animals are probably treated better than animals raised for slaughter on some factory farms.
[/rant]
But yeah. On-topic. Right to die is a yes, provided you're of sound mind to make the decision. Euthanising patients when it was illegal, I don't like and I'm not sure I can support it. I'd rather see people lobbying to have the right to die made into law than illegally euthanising patients and making the right to die movement look like a bunch of murdering whackos.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:40 pm
It is impossible to violate your own rights. If you are killing yourself, you are consenting to die. This makes the act not in violation of any rights as it is consentual. Same for cutting off your own limbs or punching yourself, etc.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:34 pm
Actually, the "Early Career" of the wiki article says that Kevorkian advocated consensual experiments on death row inmates.
As for his support of the death penalty, I guess the reasoning is that terminally ill patients have the right to die on their own conditions, while those who have committed a heinous crime don't deserve any of that. I can't really speak from that view, as I don't believe in capital punishment myself (too many flaws in the justice system, cheaper to house an inmate for life than to have one on death row making constant appeals and draining legal resources, etc). Besides, it was abolished here decades ago.
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Tragic Christmas Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:43 am
I support the right to die.
I have several medical conditions. There's painful and costly treatments, but in the end, I will still die slowly and painfully. And there's no getting around that. I'm already in pain every second of every day, and I live knowing it's just going to get worse.
I'm not saying I'd choose assisted suicide. But I wish I had that legal option. It'd be nice to know that I could choose to go peacefully when I've had enough. To go quickly and painlessly into the next life, y'know?
And, as it is my life, it is my body, and it is me that's dealing with it all...just like with pregnancy. Why can't I choose not only if and when to give life, but if and when to end my own?
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:30 pm
heart ! Another Michigander!
I believe that Kevorkian has a great mind. He believes in human rights, but the poor man's words will alwys be twisted into something cruel by the media and the public. It makes me feel really bad for him.
If I were faced with a terminal illnes, i'd really want to be able to end my suffering in a painless, quick way. No one wants to live in agony and torment. BUT to do this legally and with dignity, i'd have to move to the ONE state that actually allows "assisted suicide". But with that, you only get a bottle of pills that kill you slowly. WTF, America?
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:51 am
Frills I support the right to die.
I have several medical conditions. There's painful and costly treatments, but in the end, I will still die slowly and painfully. And there's no getting around that. I'm already in pain every second of every day, and I live knowing it's just going to get worse.
I'm not saying I'd choose assisted suicide. But I wish I had that legal option. It'd be nice to know that I could choose to go peacefully when I've had enough. To go quickly and painlessly into the next life, y'know?
And, as it is my life, it is my body, and it is me that's dealing with it all...just like with pregnancy. Why can't I choose not only if and when to give life, but if and when to end my own? I understand how you feel, with all of mine, too. However (having tried to commit suicide more times than I can count), I would probably end up using PAS eventually. Right now, the pain's not too bad, and it WILL get worse as we get older, and I don't wanna die at the age of 80 in so much pain that it feels like the wind moving over me is slicing off my skin. (Just when I have my period)
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