|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:12 pm
Okay so over the past few years alot of debates have been created over religion, and I want your opinions on it. I do not want to know what religion you are. It doesn't matter to me. I want you to answer questions like:
Why do people follow a particular religion?
Do they accomplish their goals?
Is it appriopiate for them to try and make discions such as Harry Potter is the devil and should be banned?
Do they have a good or bad effect on society?
Should children be forced to follow their parents religion?
Should people be perscuted for enforcing their religion on other people?
How believable are they?
Why did people start religions?
Why do people give their "system of beliefs" a title?
Do they make a person feel more secure?
Do they promote free thinking or do they just surpress people?
Is the system they use to evalueate scripture working or should it be changed?
Maybe now, we will get less idiots just posting answers to those questions.
And most importantly: Does society need them?
THOSE ARE ONLY DISCUSION POINTS, there is way more to this that just these questions. DO NOT ANSWER EACH ONE INDIVIDUALLY.
And other serious questions about them.
DO NOT post what religion you are, unless it helps support your arguement.
Personally I think religion is nothing more than a socially acceptable cult. That is my view on them and I don't believe in religion in general. I do however believe in some things that religions teach.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:23 pm
First of all.. Just to clear this up.. marshjazz Okay so over the past few years alot of debates have been created over religion, and I want your opinions on it. Religious "debates" have been around since religion itself was created.. With that of none-believers and those who have conflicting religions.. More blood has been spilled over religion in the history of the world, then all other wars in the world combined.... Sorry for the correction, it just bothered me..
Anyways.. marshjazz Why do people follow a particular religion? Do they accomplish their goals? Is it appriopiate for them to try and make discions such as Harry Potter is the devil and should be banned? Do they have a good or bad effect on society? Should children be forced to follow their parents religion? Should people be perscuted for enforcing their religion on other people? How believable are they? Why did people start religions? Why do people give their "system of beliefs" a title? Do they make a person feel more secure? Do they promote free thinking or do they just surpress people? Is the system they use to evalueate scripture working or should it be changed? And most importantly: Does society need them? People follow a religion because they are taught to follow it. If you grow up in a house full of christians, they will teach you to follow God and the christian ways. The same for any other religion. Religion is sometimes even FORCED upon people in certain countries, through fear. Though, if you think about it, ALL religions try to force you into believing them, through fear.. For example; According to christians, if you do not believe that Jesus was the messiah and God is real, then you burn in hell for all eternity. Then you have people who are dependant on religion. Those who feel, if they have nothing to believe in, they are left without a purpose, without meaning in their life.. There's many reasons why.
Religions have no real goals, other then to attempt to control society through, what is very close to, "brainwashing". They claim to try and help people and such.. What has religion done for the world other then a few churches giving some scraps to the homeless? Oh, well, they've been the cause of genocide and an unfathomable ammount of bloodshed.. If that's their goal, I guess they reached it.
Religious decisions are no better then decisions made by you or me. They're just opinions that are backed behind the power of "the church" or bullshit like that.
I'll answer more when I have more time..
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:04 am
AmErIcAnSyKo Religions have no real goals, other then to attempt to control society through, what is very close to, "brainwashing". I would like to know how religion is brainwashing. Most people follow their religion of their free will. However, you may be thinking of fanatics/cults claiming to be of religious association, but rest assured that the majority of the religious folk dont promote "brainwashing" of any sort. If religion was shoved down your throat, then I am truly sorry. AmErIcAnSyKo They claim to try and help people and such.. What has religion done for the world other then a few churches giving some scraps to the homeless? Oh, well, they've been the cause of genocide and an unfathomable ammount of bloodshed.. If that's their goal, I guess they reached it. When was this "unfathomable" amount of bloodshed taken? The last major religious war happened centuries ago. When was the last time religion was causing genocide? never. You really need to get your facts straight, as genocide was a product of racial superiority not religion and sometimes politics. Blaming the actions of twisted people on any religion is bull. AmErIcAnSyKo Religious decisions are no better then decisions made by you or me. They're just opinions that are backed behind the power of "the church" or bullshit like that. Religion is meant to be a set of moral guidelines which people can choose o follow. The church "backing" certain opinions is no different than Bush backing the war in Iraq.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:58 am
AmErIcAnSyKo First of all.. Just to clear this up.. marshjazz Okay so over the past few years alot of debates have been created over religion, and I want your opinions on it. Religious "debates" have been around since religion itself was created.. With that of none-believers and those who have conflicting religions.. More blood has been spilled over religion in the history of the world, then all other wars in the world combined.... Sorry for the correction, it just bothered me..
Anyways.. marshjazz Why do people follow a particular religion? Do they accomplish their goals? Is it appriopiate for them to try and make discions such as Harry Potter is the devil and should be banned? Do they have a good or bad effect on society? Should children be forced to follow their parents religion? Should people be perscuted for enforcing their religion on other people? How believable are they? Why did people start religions? Why do people give their "system of beliefs" a title? Do they make a person feel more secure? Do they promote free thinking or do they just surpress people? Is the system they use to evalueate scripture working or should it be changed? And most importantly: Does society need them? People follow a religion because they are taught to follow it. If you grow up in a house full of christians, they will teach you to follow God and the christian ways. The same for any other religion. Religion is sometimes even FORCED upon people in certain countries, through fear. Though, if you think about it, ALL religions try to force you into believing them, through fear.. For example; According to christians, if you do not believe that Jesus was the messiah and God is real, then you burn in hell for all eternity. Then you have people who are dependant on religion. Those who feel, if they have nothing to believe in, they are left without a purpose, without meaning in their life.. There's many reasons why.
Religions have no real goals, other then to attempt to control society through, what is very close to, "brainwashing". They claim to try and help people and such.. What has religion done for the world other then a few churches giving some scraps to the homeless? Oh, well, they've been the cause of genocide and an unfathomable ammount of bloodshed.. If that's their goal, I guess they reached it.
Religious decisions are no better then decisions made by you or me. They're just opinions that are backed behind the power of "the church" or bullshit like that.
I'll answer more when I have more time.. I grew up in a house of christians. I am kinda forced to be one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:48 am
AmErIcAnSyKo marshjazz Okay so over the past few years alot of debates have been created over religion, and I want your opinions on it. Religious "debates" have been around since religion itself was created.. With that of none-believers and those who have conflicting religions.. More blood has been spilled over religion in the history of the world, then all other wars in the world combined.... Sorry for the correction, it just bothered me.. Well, the only debates I can remember are from the time in which I am alive. Not back when I wasn't alive. But I was mostly referring how people have lately been using religion as a reason for being against gay marriage or pro-life. Like it actually backs their opinion. They have this assumption because they believe in their religion that it is always right. But you are right about what you said. @MARGAR3T: Like I said in the first post I want a serious discusion and do not what to know what religion you are.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:52 am
Quote: brain·wash·ing /ˈbreɪnˌwɒʃɪŋ, -ˌwɔʃɪŋ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[breyn-wosh-ing, -waw-shing] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. a method for systematically changing attitudes or altering beliefs, originated in totalitarian countries, esp. through the use of torture, drugs, or psychological-stress techniques. 2. any method of controlled systematic indoctrination, esp. one based on repetition or confusion: brainwashing by TV commercials. 3. an instance of subjecting or being subjected to such techniques: efforts to halt the brainwashing of captive audiences. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/brainwashing
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:38 am
Dangerous Muse AmErIcAnSyKo Religions have no real goals, other then to attempt to control society through, what is very close to, "brainwashing". I would like to know how religion is brainwashing. Most people follow their religion of their free will. However, you may be thinking of fanatics/cults claiming to be of religious association, but rest assured that the majority of the religious folk dont promote "brainwashing" of any sort. If religion was shoved down your throat, then I am truly sorry. AmErIcAnSyKo They claim to try and help people and such.. What has religion done for the world other then a few churches giving some scraps to the homeless? Oh, well, they've been the cause of genocide and an unfathomable ammount of bloodshed.. If that's their goal, I guess they reached it. When was this "unfathomable" amount of bloodshed taken? The last major religious war happened centuries ago. When was the last time religion was causing genocide? never. You really need to get your facts straight, as genocide was a product of racial superiority not religion and sometimes politics. Blaming the actions of twisted people on any religion is bull. AmErIcAnSyKo Religious decisions are no better then decisions made by you or me. They're just opinions that are backed behind the power of "the church" or bullshit like that. Religion is meant to be a set of moral guidelines which people can choose o follow. The church "backing" certain opinions is no different than Bush backing the war in Iraq. I used the term "brainwashing" very loosely. Though, from the definition Jazz gave, it seems that they're a lot closer to brainwashing then you might think. Go read it. You might learn something. Dangerous Muse When was this "unfathomable" amount of bloodshed taken? The last major religious war happened centuries ago. When was the last time religion was causing genocide? never. You seem to not understand the meaning of "genocide".. Here you are: "Any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; and forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
Have you ever heard of a little thing called "witch hunting"? Let me enlighten you..
"Canon law, in Canon Episcopi, followed the views of the church father Augustine of Hippo (AD 400) that belief in the existence of witchcraft was heresy, since according to Augustine "a heretic is one who either devises or follows false and new opinions, for the sake of some temporal profit". The Council of Paderborn in 785 explicitly outlawed the very belief in witches, and Charlemagne later confirmed the law. The first medieval trials against witches date to the 13th century with the institution of the Inquisition, but they were a side issue, as the Church was concentrating on the persecution of heresy, and witchcraft, alleged or real, was treated as any other sort of heresy."
I think that says pretty much everything I need to say about it..
There was an estimated 35,184 - 63,850 people killed.. Executed because they were believed to be "witches", the vast majority of them, women. I consider that genocide. They had their beliefs, they went against the religion of those around them and look what happened.. That's just one thing that religions around the world did. So don't give me that bullshit. Dangerous Muse Religion is meant to be a set of moral guidelines which people can choose o follow. The church "backing" certain opinions is no different than Bush backing the war in Iraq That's supporting my statement. Bush backing the war is no different then me backing the war, except he has the position of power to make that choice. Same with the church. So I don't know what you were hoping to achieve with that statement of yours. I can't tell if you were agreeing or disagreeing with what I said.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:02 am
And since you're probably going to try and make that rediculous claim again.. The "last religous war was centuries ago" claim.. Here's one for you; The Cristero war. (1926-1929)
"The Cristero War (also known as the Cristiada) of 1926 to 1929 was a popular uprising against the anti-Catholic Mexican government of the time, set off specifically by the anti-clerical provisions of the Mexican Constitution of 1917.
After a period of peaceful resistance, a number of skirmishes took place in 1926. The formal rebellion began on January 1, 1927 with the rebels calling themselves Cristeros because they felt they were fighting for Christ himself."
"The war had claimed the lives of some 90,000: 56,882 on the federal side, 30,000 Cristeros, and numerous civilians and Cristeros who were killed in anticlerical raids after the war's end."
Read up a bit on it, you might find it interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:44 am
Religion is incredibly damaging to society, the very concept of it is fundamentally flawed, it causes uneeded isolation, confrontation and hatred. It is not needed for morals, science has proven the true origin of morality and most morals taught in ancient scriptures are sickening by todays standards, and mistranslations are blamed by those who cling to their beliefs.
People only believe in a religion because it is expected of them, to carry on a tradition or because it offers them a shallow comfort, a moral massage or a reason to attack others.
Religion should have no place in today's society, however it's destructive elements are becoming more and more evident thanks to more conspicuously extremist muslims, and less prominently, fundamentalist christians, *particularly in america*.
AmErIcAnSyKo,
There are religious wars going on all the time, mostly in middle eastern countries, between judaism and islam (i think). For example most famously the Iranian prime minister said that Isreal should be wiped off the face of the earth because it is a "disgraceful blot."
And of course the war on terror is also caused by religion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:03 am
Cornetto1 Religion is incredibly damaging to society, the very concept of it is fundamentally flawed, it causes uneeded isolation, confrontation and hatred. It is not needed for morals, science has proven the true origin of morality and most morals taught in ancient scriptures are sickening by todays standards, and mistranslations are blamed by those who cling to their beliefs. People only believe in a religion because it is expected of them, to carry on a tradition or because it offers them a shallow comfort, a moral massage or a reason to attack others. Religion should have no place in today's society, however it's destructive elements are becoming more and more evident thanks to more conspicuously extremist muslims, and less prominently, fundamentalist christians, *particularly in america*. AmErIcAnSyKo, There are religious wars going on all the time, mostly in middle eastern countries, between judaism and islam (i think). For example most famously the Iranian prime minister said that Isreal should be wiped off the face of the earth because it is a "disgraceful blot." And of course the war on terror is also caused by religion. And that's a war I was going to bring up, but decided against it, because I didn't have the specifics of it.. But now that I know it's of interest, I might as well research it.
What I DO know, is that the islamic religion has been known (very commonly) to be forced onto those who don't follow it.. Read some of these accounts..
"In 2001 the Indonesian army evacuated hundreds of Christian refugees from the remote Kesui and Teor islands in Maluku province after the refugees said they had been forced to convert to Islam."
"In 2004 Coptic Christians in Egypt for several days occupied the main Coptic cathedral in Cairo, angry at the disappearance of the wife of a priest in a village in the Nile delta who was rumoured to have been forced to convert to Islam."
"In August 2006 two journalists Centanni and Wiig kidnapped by Holy Jihad Brigades in Gaza City and were apparently forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint. "
"It was reported in February 2007 that Hindu and Sikh organisations in the UK believe that young women of these faiths are being coerced by young men they meet at university into converting to Islam."
So there you go.. 21st century accounts of forced conversion.. It's still around, folks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:37 am
Islam, of the three dominant monotheistic religions in todays society, is most definitely the most destructive and easily has the nuttiest and most dangerous extremists. However, since it is a minority in western countries, to critisise their religion is a great taboo, as it is with all religions, but islam moreso, spawning phrases like "islamophobia" and "anti islamic racism" as if an attack on religion is an attack on an ethnic group. This brings up another area in which religion stamps its big ugly totalitarian boot, freedom of speech. The ability to critisize religion, to critisize anything, is an incredibly important thing, and to have freedom of speech hampered for merely the fear of upsetting those with the delusion of pixies in the sky is almost as nonsensical as what they preach in their holy books. Robert Pirsig When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:19 pm
Judging from the definition of genocide, I believe that every religion is BASED off of genocide, in some way or another.
Here is the definition for those who didn't see: "Any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; and forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
Almost every religion tries to convert you.. And if you are not one of them, they threaten you with the thought of eternal suffering after death.
Say that the christian religion is true.. Think of how many people are going to burn for eternity.. God, is a genocidal maniac. He will convert you, or make you suffer.
Now tell me how that benefits society??
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:24 pm
Oooh, that reminds me of a fabulous depiction of the god of the old testement by Richard Dawkins.
"Arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:31 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:39 pm
Well I'm glad that no one has run in here saying "You religion haters, your all going to rot in hell!" This subforum certainly is keeping those people away.
I think everyone in here has made some good points. But mostly those against religion, moreso than those for religion.
Although it is to far to say that the christian god is "unforgiving" because supposedly if you sincerly ask for forgivness, no matter what your crime, your fine and going to heaven. You could be a serial killer for all he cares. In my opinion there are just somethings that cannot be forgiven.
And I still find it funny how god is good yet he discriminates. Hasn't most of the world agreed that discrimination is bad?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
