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Sun -> Black Hole = Anti-Matter?

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TheAlmightyBeanDip

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:17 pm


I made this thread down in the ED. However, it looks like it isn't going to get alot of attention over there since it involves discussion instead of debate, which is the only reason why people go there in the first place; To see who is better at outsmarting each other and flinging fallacies like how a monkey throws feces. I think it is a pretty interesting subject, and I know there are many intelligent people here in the Guild, so I just want to know what you guys think of it.

Quote:
I'm watching a special on Black Holes in the History Channel, and it got me pondering. What if black holes are actually huge orbs of pure anti-matter?

A Sun goes through many stages, each stage fusing different elements with another to create energy. As our scientific findings state, Black Holes suck up matter. However, there is another way of creating energy, which is through annihilation. Annihilation is when matter and anti-matter collide together to create gamma rays, or in this case, energy.

Anti-matter is (supposedly) found almost everywhere in space, while the only anti-matter on Earth is antihydrogen, which is man made and doesn't last very long. In space, anti-matter is found anywhere where high-energy collisions take place.

As I recall, the Sun is powered through a nuclear fusion reaction. Logic dictates that fusion is another form of collision.

My theory is this:

Throughout the stages of the Sun, the Sun will eventually form anti-matter due to the super nova's sheer power. Since neither energy or matter can't be created or destroyed, matter must turn into energy, or vise versa. In this case, matter will turn into energy. How? Through anti-matter. Anti-matter would create electromagnetism, thus pulling in matter. When they collide, they create gamma rays, which is actually a form of electromagnetic radiation. Black holes emit electromagnetic waves, and if my logic is theoretically possible, disperse all of the energy from the "anti-matter holes" throughout the cosmos. Could there be a connection between anti-matter and black holes?

However, these leave questions unanswered. For example, does anti-matter suck when in a vaccuum? In a super nova, does the implosion create anti-matter? Is matter really infinetly diminished in a black hole?

I'm still trying to look for answers, and will edit this post whenever I find something new. Also, I looked over, however very briefly, through Wikipedia just to name my sources since many of you like to debate instead of discuss.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:11 pm


I'm not aware of anti-matter being found anywhere in the universe outside of a particle accelerator, so I'd contend the Anti-matter is (supposedly) found almost everywhere in space, statement.

High energy collisions in space may cause anti-matter - but I'm at a loss to think of any that would (short of a supernova). Further, the anti-matter would be as short-lived as any on Earth - as soon as it meets matter, it mutually annihilates.

The Sun doesn't have the right conditions to create anti-matter. It also won't ever supernova (it's much too little). A supernova may create small quantities of anti-matter, but this would instantly be destroyed on contact with the matter around it.

Matter doesn't have to contact anti-matter to be liberated into energy - nuclear fusion reactions end up with about 99% of the mass of the initial fuel; 1% (or so) is converted straight to energy (which provides the energy from the reaction - at E=mc^2, thats a lot of joules).

Anti-matter has exactly the same gravitational qualities as matter - an orb of anti-Sun would have the same field as an orb of Sun. For a black hole to exist, the actual composition wouldn't matter, as the mass itself is now outside the universe as we know it. It's been compressed to the point where no physical properties can stop it compressing further, so it diminishes to a mathematical point - a singularity. As the strength of gravity varies with the square of the distance from the centre of the object itself, and you could get arbitrarily close to a point object, there comes a distance (for any mass greater than zero) where the gravity field is so strong that the escape velocity from the object - at that distance - exceeds the speed of light. At this distance is the event horizon. So called, because no events closer to the singularity than that horizon can ever link with the universe outside.

For a large enough mass, the distance involved can be quite large (there is reasonable evidence that there is a supermassive black hole at the centre of our galaxy, and possibly at the centre of every spiral galaxy). One suggestion I've heard is:

If the Universe is closed (will collapse in x billion years), then it's gravity is, by definition, too great for anything to escape. thus, the Universe is a super-massive black hole, and we live in it ...

One connection between anti-matter and black holes is Hawking radiation.
The fabric of the universe teems with a sea of virtual particles, like the spray around the foot of a waterfall. Matter-antimatter pairs pop into existence, and then, on a time scale so short that it is all but inconceivable, promptly collide with each other and mutually obliterate. This isn't just intellectual handwaving - it's the effect of virtual particles that can cause magnetic (and other) effects - the "sprays" around real particles pushing against each other.
(It's as if the laws of conservation only work when the universe has time to notice these particles).

Now, around a black hole, the same kind of thing happens. But at some distance, even on the timescales these things operate at, one half of the pair might stray just too close to the event horizon while the other half doesn't. All of a sudden, the surviving half (either a particle or antiparticle) doesn't have it's birthmate for its mutual annihilation. It's cast adrift in the universe, alone and real (rather than virtual). The conservation laws mean that this mass has to be balanced, so an equal mass gets deducted from the singularity (beyond the event horizon, so it probably thought it was quite safe smile ). So a black hole loses matter at a steady trickle, through this Hawking radiation . If it's big enough that the event horizon has enough surface area to suck in enough matter to balance, it's okay. Black holes that are too small, however (or located in mass-barren regions), start to lose mass. So the event horizon contracts. Which makes eating enough to balance the Hawking radiation emissions more difficult, and, in a vicious cycle, the black hole ends up evaporating.

Hope that helps. Definitely interesting areas to provoke thought.

[Finrod]


ApocalypseV

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:24 am


i read somewhere online a while back(i obviously cant remember where otherwise i would tell you) pretty much the same theory as you have except that it mentioned that through the black hole could be a reverse of our universe, seeing as matter makes everything in our universe, through the black hole everything would be made of antimatter.
Creating a convergence, while sucking in matter it is actually pushing out antimatter and it transforms through the process to even out the 2.
Scientists believe that the planets came from heated rocks and stars. This theory that i read had the concept that our planets, stars, and everything else transform in a reaction through the black holes to create us.
It also claimed that all the planets around our sun were once even and completely identical and that there were different peoples on every planet. It said that they all devised ways to travel to and from other planets except one and that people from other planets came to ours to get away from their own interplanetary war because ours was the undeveloped planet.
I thought it was a pretty interesting theory i just wish i could find it online again lol if nothing else it makes for an interesting story.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:00 am


As Pythagoras said,the universe is based on opositions...
For every part of matter,there is an equal part of anti-matter...

The pythagorian pentagram symbolizes the materials that composed world

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

Those materials are fire(πυρ),air[αήρ],earth[γαία],water[ύδωρ] and anti-matter[αιθήρ]!

This kind of pentagram is also seen in some Davinci's drawings about the perfect human.

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ApocalypseV

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:18 am


thats awesome i didnt know about the pentagrams symbolism like that.
Amandeus
As Pythagoras said,the universe is based on opositions...
For every part of matter,there is an equal part of anti-matter...

The pythagorian pentagram symbolizes the materials that composed world

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

Those materials are fire(πυρ),air[αήρ],earth[γαία],water[ύδωρ] and anti-matter[αιθήρ]!

This kind of pentagram is also seen in some Davinci's drawings about the perfect human.
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