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 Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:09 pm
Since there are no topics about Greek yet, I thought I'd make one.
Some questions for discussion:
What are some experiences you've had with the language, favorite works, least favorite works?
What do you consider the best and worst points of the grammar?
Which dialect(s) have you studied?
Here's a quote that seems appropriate for this forum... n_n
Κάλλιστόν ἐστι κτῆμα παιδεία βροτοῖς.
'Education is the most valuable treasure for mortals.'
-Menander
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 4:08 pm
malince Since there are no topics about Greek yet, I thought I'd make one. Some questions for discussion: What are some experiences you've had with the language, favorite works, least favorite works? What do you consider the best and worst points of the grammar? Which dialect(s) have you studied? Here's a quote that seems appropriate for this forum... n_n Κάλλιστόν ἐστι κτῆμα παιδεία βροτοῖς. 'Education is the most valuable treasure for mortals.' -Menander The Beatuy of Greek is its flexibility, it can be exact and ambiguous all at the same time. My favorite author is probably Homer. Least favorite: Theocritus. Dialects: Homeric ( Homer), Ionic ( Herodotos), Doric (Choral odes of Aeschylos)[most difficult and obscure by far]. Aeloic ( Sappho) and koine ( Greek NT) I love the way Herodotos writes and his dialect presents few difficulties. Sappho too is bueatiful and "smooth".
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:24 am
Wow, you have studied a lot of the dialects. I've only formally learned Attic, though my class read some Koine too...
I think one of the hardest things to grasp as an English speaker was the concept of aspect.
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 3:22 pm
malince Wow, you have studied a lot of the dialects. I've only formally learned Attic, though my class read some Koine too... I think one of the hardest things to grasp as an English speaker was the concept of aspect. yes, aspect is one of the more difficult concepts to master, especially the difference between aorist and perfect. the way i usually try to communicate this is that aorist verbs are "pop-up" or instantaneous actions that happen and are over with in a moment; he fell, he died, he jumped. the dialects are usually discussed and footnoted in undergraduate texts, and once you get the hang of it it's no more diffcult than a Minnesotan underdstanding a Texan or Australian. it's just that the Greeks "wrote it as they heard it" unlike English where our written language has kept vestigial forms no longer in the spoken language like "would and though". If you have any trouble with dialects i'll help you as best as i can. If you really want to study aspect, go learn Sanskrit. biggrin
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:28 am
Aspect is sometimes found in colloquial English, though not formal written English. A phrase such as "he up and died" emphsizes the instantaneous, perhaps unexpected, action. Or the one that causes frissons of horror in the schoolmarms; "He went and bought himself a horse." I contend that this phrase is not a mangled purepose clause, i.e. "he went to purchease an equine animal," but rather the "went" attmpts to show the instantanous aspect of his decision.True, he may have had to travel to the horse auction, but once there he made an instant decision to buy the horse.
The imperfective aspect ( uncompleted) is shown by : "he was gong to buy a horse, but he bought a donkey instead." Our buyer has travelled to the horse barn, and was intending to buy a horse, but decided to buy a donkey intead.
I hope this helps in some small way, and please don't report my to the authorities for "promoting illiteracy and corrupting the youth". smile
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:53 pm
Those are interesting examples. Would you say then that the verb "intend" in English has imperfect aspect by nature? Nobody intends "once and for all." It's more continuous.
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Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 9:05 pm
true, in most contexts " intened" would very commonly be imperfective in it's aspect, and, once the desired action was completed, it would be come "perfect", the intention having been fulfilled.
e.g. Marcus intended to buy a horse, but bought himself a donkey instead.
Does his intention to buy the horse end the instant he decides to buy a donkey. ?
i'll posit that in this example, you could argue that the decision to buy the donkey is aorist, instantaneous, his intention stops at the point of completion of the action.
However, if you posit that, although our buyer has decided to buy a donkey, he may still have a lingering, imperfective, or ongoing yen or desire to still purchase a horse; the donkey having been bought or not. If this is your intrerpretation, then certainly, intend has an underlying "imperfective" aspect wether present or past tense in English.
Marcus equum emere intendebat, sed asinum sibi emit
I hope this is a cogent example of tense vs aspect.
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